Best defense, Best attack, Best Whuppin'

[The Gauch0]

OK, I learned more about surprise attacks than I expected from the "It's a Trap" thread. Good discussion. In the same vein, I'd like to hear general bragging about success stories against the AI and other players on the battlefield. What have you done that worked well? Let's hear some examples of expert generalship

Also, since we all learn from our mistakes, it wouldn't hurt to hear about some dramatic failures as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif

[MiniKiller]

I was defending a hilly area with 500 men and 160 cavelry. Out of the 500, about 300 were archers. I was cought off guard but 1500, yup 1500 Welsh. One of my archers was able to take the general and he fled. Flood after flood came and my units were weaker and weaker. I was able to hold them off by holding ground. When I routed a unit I didnt chase them, simply let them run to rest my troops. Worked quite well. when their reinforcments came they would see tired units rally, but route again because they were so tired.

[SpiderFromMars]

Ok I'll get to the point eventually, hehehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I've been playing the SP campaign for 6 hours straight now, GA mode, building the Ottoman Empire up into a power to be reckoned with http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I started in Late, and the Jannies have just begun to drip out of my Military academy, much needed they were as well...

I'd taken the homelands as dictated by the GA mode in different time periods, and things were running smooth until that Pope bastard started calling for crusades against me. My empire was split up by the only remaining Byzantine province, Constantinople, and the catholics became more and more aggressive, regaining Serbia & Wallachia, threatening Bulgaria & Greece. So when I stripped my border with Egypt in the south & Russia in the north I prepared for the counter strike, including my elite Janny army.

Now Egypt is just my puppet state as of now, holding 4 provinces after foolishly breaking an earlier alliance with me. The alliance is back up, but Egypt is chock full of spies, assassins & emissaries. Its the fool me once thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Russians decided to become opportunistic tho so I had to divert my counterstrike nortwards as well, which means I'm still only hanging on by a thread in eastern europe...

In Russia I found you often defend bridge/river maps when u have gained a province and the previous owner counterattacks. This happened to me twice in a row after I had pushed the russkies back and made them pay some for their opportunism.

My first defence was a loss, 3 star gen with about 200 inf/120 cav faced off against 400 cav led by a 5 star general. I had to defend two bridges and tried to hold both. From the very beginning I saw that the Urb Mil wouldn't last and poured everything into the slugging contest on the bridges. Eventually fatigue got me and the valiant defenders went down, general died heroically.

On the same turn I once again had to defend a double bridge map, this time in Kiev. The matchup was even more lopsided this time, 400 inf (including 1 JHI)/ 150 cav led by my 5 star heir, faced off against almost 3000 Russians led by their heir, a 3 star gen. The previous battle I had gotten some good kills in, but numbers beat me in the end, so I decided to try a different approach.

I placed my main force at one bridge, leaving the other bridge lightly defended. Silly AI then concentrated on the heavily defended bridge, just moving some cav over the other bridge. I let his cav cross then shut the door with the JHI. The cav he had sent over was quickly dissected and eliminated while the stalemate at the main bridge went on. He had loads of arbs pounding my holding inf, so I had to act quickly. The solution was a simple pincer.

After I sent 3 heavy cav over the bridge held by the JHI, they got a clear run into the russkies rear and routed those blasted arbs before smacking right into the other side of the bridge assault. The russkies were hemmed in and went down in record time. I repeated this process several times and finally (boy did I get a laugh out of this) the final wave arrived. 6 Pav Xbows. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I took my time, and reckon not one single pav got away after I had encircled them.

So if u got 2 bridges, don't hesitate to pull this tactic out of the bag http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Its now the year 1442 and my Jannies have secured the western part (eastern europe) of the Ottoman Empire once again, though its a real boiling pot. Some may say the Jannies are underpowered in MP, but in SP they sure do hand out a beating http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I'm contently holding the barricades now, building that master foundry to produce a siege cannon or two. I'm not letting Constantinople survive until 1453 in this alternate reality http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

(Siege tips anyone? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif )

[The Gauch0]

I've found that the key to defending a bridge is to not set foot on the bridge. Wait in a line at the edge of the bridge if you have a good defensive matchup against whatever type of unit is coming across (spear against cavalry, etc.). If your troops are inferior, let the enemy get across the bridge just enough to try to form a line on your side, and then hit them from the flanks before they can organize. Make a funnel with your troops on your side of the bridge so they can get a unit across and be surrounded when they get there.

I've never had to defend a second bridge when fighting the AI. It seems like if you just defend the bridge closest to your starting position, the AI will never try to flank you by crossing the second bridge.

[Dimeola]

Could only get 3 for a Viking game so I defended alone vs 2 armies with Vikings. I moved forward up a small hill to my rt and attacked a strung out band of Celts. Routed the front half who caused the back half to run. While he was trying to rally them I wheeled left to face the second army. After some hard fighting they routed as well. Then turned around to finish off a few units of rallied Celts. A fine day and this game endeared me to Viking armies.
Croaker

[frogbeastegg]

Have you people seen the 'exactly how bad are you?' topic in the entrance hall? It has several pages of funny stories like this. Also Balamir set up a topic called the warriors hall for storytelling and accounts of good battles. Unfortunately it is dying and currently residing on the second page. If you've got a good story (and I know you have http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) wander over and have a look. It's a great idea and in need of support.

[The_Emperor]

I like to create a killing zone on my side of the bridge when defending...

I deploy my spearmen in a half-box formation facing towards the bridge, basically it exposes the enemy to possible charges on both flanks and from directly ahead. behind the Spearmen units I have a thin Line of Archers 2 ranks deep.

And then facing the bridge behind the lines I have my Cavalry and Men at Arms ready to charge.

The enemy runs a gauntlet of arrows taking heavy casualties and often wehn they reach my side of the bridge, they are so nervous about the flanks... and my numbers (since units cross bridges one after the other) that they Rout and then cause the cascade effect.

Thats when my cavalry ride hard into the rear and mow them down like grass

I love Bridge defence http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

EDIT: Here (http://home.clara.net/ralphwolf/replay.zip) I have just uploaded a replay of one such battle.

[A.Saturnus]

I just had to laugh when my Jannies slaughtered the famous Katas in a wood within seconds, but the best thing I did was killing v7 VGs with constant charges from both sides. It`s great when you turn almost lost battles into victories.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

I was defending Saxony as HRE against Danes,
me: 2 archers, 2 xbow, 2 naptha and 2 spearmen
denmark:5 royal knights, 4 vikings, 2 spears.

It was bridge battle, the river 06 in the custom battle list I believe - there is a kink in the river and the bridge is right past the kink. So as a defender you can line up your archers on your side of the kink and completely dominate the bridge and the approach to it.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
So I lined up archers and xbows accordingly, naptha on hold on either side of the bridge and spears holding in front of it.

Initially 60 knights charged - less the 30 made it to my spears and the naptha took care of them, same with the vikings. By now the daish king was dead and the danish spears routed as soon as they got hit by the naptha.

All the danish princes and king were dead, total some 340 dead (about 90 from the naptha throwers), I lost only about 30 spearmen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Jazzman]

Gaucho, had a battle quite like your original post last night. prince john w/ 1000 men in Antioch was attacked by 5000 of the Horde w alot of heavy cav. (Hard level). the battleground had a series of wooded ridges, i set myself up on the first ridge (i had mostly infantry but luckily some good billmen) and took on their first couple waves with great success, the trees protected me from the horse archers and the billmen mowed down the heavy cav trying to march up hill, then i moved to the next ridge for several more waves of Horde dashed upon the english rock, then a third ridge, my men were getting a bit thin at this point and i knew there were more horde left, so after witholding another wave i took the chance and marched all my men to the hordes reinforcement point and took three more waves as they entered, slaughtered all the prisoners, killed 2200 in all, to my 500 lost, withstood at least 10 waves in all, i think this will turn the tide on the Horde and allow me to complete the total domination soon.

[Degtyarev14.5]

My biggest whuppin' was a strategic one rather than one restrained to a single battlefield.

Spanish, around 1140-50 or so, I guess, but this was a few months ago so I'm not sure.

Naturally, I had spent a great deal of money developing Castille as my capital provence, and had produced two crusades in anticipation for a call to duty from the pope.

Pushing back the excommed French, I found that I could not take Ile de France: it was simply too heavily fortified. The crusade sat around for a few years, and then fell apart.

Civil war.

On the basis of numerical superiority, I backed the loyalists; unfortunately, the unit of Spanish jinettes I had guarding Castille were among the few armies that rebelled. I do wish we could consult the map before making that decision. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Of course, my horde descended upon my former capital quickly before I began to feel the pinch. The jinettes didn't last long, but then my soldiers felt the urge to sack something. Like a chapter house, perhaps, complete with that other crusade just waiting to go...

Civil war.

I gave up. The frustration was just too much. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

A.

[Pablo Sanchez]

My best victory was the Pictish campaign (with interregnum mod) I did against the Irish. Like the Athenians taking on Syracuse, I was almost entirely unaware as to the extent of the Islanders armies, but I felt confident in the ability of my high-command main general (the bribed king of Strathclyde, in fact http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif) with his single stack of experienced troops.

The first battle on landing in Ulster was a joke, with my light cavalry quickly riding the defending dartmen down and suffering minimal losses. The next turns got a little hairier. In the next four years, I captured their king once (ransomed back for 11,000 gold http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif), and destroyed his armies wholesale four times. I think somewhere around 6,000 Irishmen died in the battles of Ulster, and left the rest of the country kind of empty and it was rapidly conquered.

The interesting thing was that my King of Strathclyde commander picked up the 'Bumbling Idiot' and 'Totally Incompetent' vices for some reason, so I had to replace him with a newly arrived six-star heir.

My biggest humiliation was Byzantines against the Turks. The war is best summed up with the question: "Where did they get all those horse archers?"

[Leet Eriksson]

I had a pretty stunning victory against the northumbrians once,using only 2 units of landsmen,2 units of viking raiders and 1 unit of huscarles i routed almost 1100 northubrians from the battle.i don't remember wich province but they were feilding a lot of fyrdmen,archers and one unit of nobles and a unit of saxon huscarles.at first i thought it was hopless,but suddenly it all turned out to my favour,the 5-6 units of fyrdmen engaged my 2 units of landsmenn,i sneaked my viking raiders to a forest to the left of my army and charged the archers behind the fyrdmen,once the archers were no more i charged my raiders on the fyrdmens rear,also my huscarle engaged the nobles and the saxon huscarles and managed to defeat them.all of a sudden their general(a fyrdman)died and the massive northumbrian army routed,it was such a stunning victory i saved it as a replay.i only lost 10 viking radiers and 7 landmenn

[Martok]

[Note: This game was played on normal difficulty, Early era, with battle time limits turned off.]

Probably my greatest victory came was when I was playing as the Spanish. About 15 years into the game, I had launched my campaign to drive out the Muslim infidel and make the peninsuala safe for Christendom. I had liberated the nothernmost of the Almohads' provinces in Iberia (Cordoba?), and soon had their castle garrison in Granada surrounded as well. Two years later, however, the Caliph led an army into the province to lift the seige. They could NOT be allowed to do so; a Muslim victory would have left my kingdom virtually naked to their predations.

The situation didn't look very good for me. Yes, my army was gradually becoming seasoned, battle-hardened veterans. Unfortunately, they were also at only about 2/3 their original strength, as they had suffered rather heavy losses in the initial battles to drive the out the Moors (thanks at least in part due to the fact that I'm not exactly a brilliant field commander). I was down to 3 spearmen, 2 archers, 1 urban militia, 2 jinettes, and my king with his royal knights--and of these units, only my knights and jinettes were still more or less at full strength.

Thus, I had no more than around 450 men to with which to the keep the Almohads at bay; whereas they had around 1200-1300 at their disposal, including those who were sallying forth from the castle. They were composed largely of Marb and Muwaid infantry, archers/desert archers, a few units of Berber camels, a couple of naptha throwers, one unit of AUM, and the Caliph & his bodyguards.

There were a couple of bright spots, however. First off, as anyone who's played the Spanish probably knows, my king (Alphonso I with 3-4 stars) had the Field Defense Specialist virtue, giving me a slight advantage over the Caliph (who I believe had only 5 stars).

Secondly, the terrain was undeniably in my favor. My troops commanded the heights of a fairly heavily wooded and very high hill, which also grew sharply steeper as you neared the summit. In addition, the Almohads had to start way at the very opposite corner of the map, ensuring they would be good and tired by the time they finally reached my well-rested (if somewhat antsy) soldiers.

For placement, I set my archers right where the treeline began/ended, so as to give them some cover from their rival counterparts but without impeding their own ability to aim. Close behind them in a shallow "horshoe" formation were my spearmen and UM, ready to block any attempt to cut down my archers. On the left sat my jinettes in concealment, ready to suddenly spring from the trees and loose their javelins once the enemy was in range. Finally, my king and his knights were concealed in the woods on the far right, ready to bite deep into the Almohad's left and/or go after the Caliph, should the opportunity arise.

At first, the battle went as I had planned, and things proceeded fairly well. The archers made a remarkably good accounting of themselves--far beyond even what I had hoped, dropping around 150 men, including a few of the Ghulams (I made sure to target the Caliph as soon as he was in range). Indeed, they ran out of ammo almost before the enemy could even reach my position, such was the amount of time it took the infidels to cross the map and climb the hill In contrast, the enemy wasted at least half their arrows while killing only 3 of my archers. In addition, the Caliph, while smart enough to leave some units in reserve farther down the hill, was still kind enough to ride with his main force so that my jinettes could take potshots at him as he approached.

No matter how well my troops were doing, however, the Almos still had numbers on their side. Despite anything I could do, I was slowly but surely getting overwhelmed. Around the time my archers' quivers were nearing empty, the enemy finally was in a position to charge them--which they did immediately, and sent in the berbers. My spearmen suddenly charged from the woods out of nowhere and began hacking the camel riders to bits. The Caliph, however (in a move that caused me to slightly upwardly revise my opinion of the combat AI) quickly pulled them back before they were completely decimated, and they regrouped. He simultaneously directed his archers to unload their remaining ammo (which was still considerable, just given the sheer number of bows he had on the field) on my spearmen and UM, which I could scarcely afford to lose.

As a result of my spearmen suddenly getting hit with a veritable downpour of arrows, a gap appeared in the middle of my battle line, and the remaining Berbers began pouring through it and slaughtering my hapless archers. In the meantime, the enemy had brought up his reserves, using some of them to chase away my jinettes, thus securing his right flank. My spearmen, in a supremely heroic effort, managed to close the gap that had formed and took out the camels that had gotten through. They then pulled back behind the treeline for cover from the enemy archers, albeit at the cost of sacrificing the rest of my urban militia, who covered their withdrawl. Meanwhile, my surviving archers had also regrouped in the woods and reformed their ranks; but they had only a few shots left, and were at barely half their numbers from the start of the battle.

So thus far, I had reformed the line and was holding on, but just barely--and we were still outnumbered 3 to 1, despite my best efforts. My men could still break at any moment; they were extremely tired, they were still getting showered with arrows, and (perhaps worst of all) their courage was failing them--they knew very well they were losing, and losing badly. I knew I had to do something quickly and seize the initiative if I was to have any chance at survival, to say nothing of victory.

Suddenly, the opportunity I had been looking for and so desperately needed presented itself: The Caliph and his Ghulam bodybuard engaged my (now almost-destroyed) urban militia. They came at them from my right, completely unaware that my king's knights were in the woods almost directly behind them. I didn't hesitate, and His Royal Majesty Alphonso immediately charged the Ghulams' rear. Within seconds, I had cut down all but the Caliph himself. He sent infantry to flank my knights in turn; but I was ready for that, and sent in my battered spearmen (who'd finally had a few moments' rest) screaming into the fray, thus keeping the marbs off my king.

Meanwhile, I used my jinettes' retreat to my advantage and had them continue to wheel around to the front left "corner" and charge the enemy archers and infantry, who slowly began to give way beneath the sudden onslaught. Finally, I had my archers focus their bows (and their little remaining ammo) on the Caliph, hoping I might get a lucky shot.

Fortune smiled on me: Whether one of my archers did indeed get that one perfect shot, or my knights finally found a gap in the Caliph's incredible sword-weaving, or a combination of both, the heathen leader finally fell. Between his death and the furious and desperate charge of my spears and jinettes, the Almohads finally broke and ran. My knights and the Jinettes (who actually still had some energy left) eagerly pursued them down the hill. The rest of my troops, exhausted beyond all belief, could do little more than watch the route from the top of the hill and cheer on their king while he brought down more of the enemy as they fleed in terror. Not a single prisoner was spared.



Final tally:

Me: 350 men left, with apx. 100 casualties.

Almohads: 850 men left (over half of which were now stuck in the castle again), with around 400 casualties.


This time, I didn't wait to just seige them out. I brought in over 400 troops within the next 2 turns, assaulted the castle, and wiped them out to the last man. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Post-battle analysis:

Overall, a very cool battle (and yes, I definitely saved the replay). I won with a combination of both skill and luck (at least I like to think my skill had something to do with it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ). It helped a lot that not only did the Caliph fight near or at the front, but was exposed at a crucial moment as well. In addition, my archers and spearmen were absolutely incredible in this battle I've never had either type of unit perform that brilliantly before or since. Without their herculean efforts, winning that battle would have been well-nigh impossible. Even with the terrain on my side, the Almos simply had way too many troops for me to truly contend with for very long. That one's almost certainly my favorite battles (as is obvious, considering how long I've rambled on about it). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Pablo Sanchez]

Jinettes, not Janissaries http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I had a nice battle with Turks where my archers made a similarly good accounting of themselves. I was attacking into a German province, and when I appeared on the map, got everything in order, and started, I noticed that there was a rather large cliff with steep slopes along the sides. Getting my horse archers into reconnaissance, I further noticed that the enemy had deployed his troops in close order at the bottom of the cliff. With Saracen infantry guarding the steep flanks, my massed archery units poured death onto the infidel below, inflicting hundreds of casualties and so thoroughly discouraging the enemy that they ran away as soon as I closed with them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Martok]

"Jinettes, not Janissaries http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif "

Thanks, I just noticed that myself. Boy do I feel sheepish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif And while I'm at it, I also realized that should have been Berber camels, not Bedouins. I'll go fix that right now.

Gee, you can't tell that I haven't played Medieval in a while, can you? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Mechstra]

I use the same tactic as the Emperor when defending bridges. If I charge with the unit in front, the AI will engage and be caught at the sides by the two charging flank units. Works nearly every time, even with peasants. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Lazul]

My "greatest" victory must have been when i was playing with the Turks on expert.
Everything was going to hell with my campaign but i had an elite army with mostly HJI left ot defend my nation.
The Egyptians attacked with mostly inf. acctualy.
He had about 3500 men i had only a few hundred JHI.
But I thought i might win and defended when i he attacked antioch.
I stood on the hill waiting for him and when he got close i charge him before he started bombard me with arrows.
And... Oh My God... i drove he's army of the map and reinforcment after reinforcemt came at me.
When the battle was over I was shocked, I had never seen so many dead soldiers.
I regret i didnt save the film so I could show you ppl it.
Quality over Quantity friends http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif