Reinforcing Mercs in MTW 1.1

[Mimer]

First post here...

I do like my mercenary troops, I do like them indeed (hey, I'm a Byzantine player, so what do you expect? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ), but the problem is that it's not possible (at least not in any way I know of) to reinforce them once they take casualties. When my two mercenary Viking units lose twenty men each, I can't reinforce one with the other, as was possible before the patch.

Since I really like to keep my (numerous) mercenary units up to strength, this is getting kind of annoying. It's actually gotten to the point where I'm very wary of committing my Alans to battle, since I know that every guy that kicks the bucket equals a permanent strength loss for that unit.

So, is there any way (short of removing the 1.1 patch) to get my trusty merc tribesmen and Vikings up to strength after a hard day of fighting the Turks?

If anyone knows of a mod, code modification or whatever that will make this possible in some way (merging or otherwise), please let me know. I (and my Alan horsemen) would appreciate it very much indeed.

[Herodotus]

I hate that too. A similar nuisance is not being able to merge units within your Crusades.

[Demon of Light]

There is something that I fuzzily recall hearing about. I haven't tried it and I don't know if it works but it looks like this:

Disband two under strength units of the same type. (preferably with the same unit upgrades too)

Check the inn that is in the same province as the one you disbanded them in. Did they merge?

Hit turn if they did not and check the inn again. Now check all the inns.

Let me know if this works.

[Gregoshi]

Hello Mimer and welcome to the Org, where mums apparently isn't the word. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Perhaps the reason you can't merge them is that merc companies of the same type don't necessarily have to like each other. I'd think mercs would be intensely loyal (for lack of a better term) to their commander (=money) than anything else.

[Mimer]

Quote[/b] (Demon of Light @ June 27 2003,00:01)]There is something that I fuzzily recall hearing about. I haven't tried it and I don't know if it works but it looks like this:

Disband two under strength units of the same type. (preferably with the same unit upgrades too)

Check the inn that is in the same province as the one you disbanded them in. Did they merge?

Hit turn if they did not and check the inn again. Now check all the inns.

Let me know if this works.

Quote[/b] ] Disband two under strength units of the same type. (preferably with the same unit upgrades too)

Check the inn that is in the same province as the one you disbanded them in. Did they merge?

Hit turn if they did not and check the inn again. Now check all the inns.


Hmm, I'll try that, but thanks for the suggestion, Demon of Light.

Now that I think about it though, I think a once saw two Viking units (nine and ten strong) that I disbanded appear separately in the province inn...but I hope I remember incorrectly, and even if so turning might do the trick I guess.

[Mimer]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ June 27 2003,02:08)]Hello Mimer and welcome to the Org, where mums apparently isn't the word. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Perhaps the reason you can't merge them is that merc companies of the same type don't necessarily have to like each other. I'd think mercs would be intensely loyal (for lack of a better term) to their commander (=money) than anything else.

Quote[/b] ]
Perhaps the reason you can't merge them is that merc companies of the same type don't necessarily have to like each other. I'd think mercs would be intensely loyal (for lack of a better term) to their commander (=money) than anything else.

Hmm, that makes sense, and is in a way realistic, but IMHO in the larger scale of things it still means that all merc companies are doomed to slowly melt away, which is hardly the way it should be (any commander worth his salt would at least try to get replacements for his unit). And since there's no way to represent this in MTW, we're left with the transfer method as a way to represent reinforcements (I'd much prefer having a way to directly reinforce the units, but it seems like a much less realistic option given the MTW system).

Also, one could of course argue that, given the scale of the strategic game, the merc units in the game could be viewed as represent several more or less independent merc units fighting together. Under that view, transferring a few guys (a platoon or two) of units form one overall command to the next wouldn't compromise loyalty to a leader.

[khurjan]

sadly there is no way to recruit or induct recruits into your merc or for that fact your dpeleted elite units....i think there should be a way where you can replenhish between 25 to 50 percent of your losses in a territory

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] ]any commander worth his salt would at least try to get replacements for his unit

True, but what are his prospects for recruiting while he is employed doing work for King, Country and the Almighty Florin? Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. Mercs strength is getting high tech soldiers instantly, weaknesses are no replacements and lower loyalty (did I miss any?).

[Mechstra]

Quicker to route. Generally not as effective in battle.

[Mimer]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ June 27 2003,21:40)]
Quote[/b] ]any commander worth his salt would at least try to get replacements for his unit

True, but what are his prospects for recruiting while he is employed doing work for King, Country and the Almighty Florin? Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. Mercs strength is getting high tech soldiers instantly, weaknesses are no replacements and lower loyalty (did I miss any?).

Quote[/b] ]
True, but what are his prospects for recruiting while he is employed doing work for King, Country and the Almighty Florin? Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. Mercs strength is getting high tech soldiers instantly, weaknesses are no replacements and lower loyalty (did I miss any?).

Two parts to this argument the way I see it. Realism and game balance.

1) Historical realism/Prospects for recruiting. Well compared to his feudal counterpart, recruiting shouldn’t be that hard, and certainly not along these lines (no problem at all for basic regular units compared to no way whatsoever for mercs) as it is in MTW. With that logic, the Varangian guard should not be able to be reinforced either, since it actually consists or mercenaries.

The Byzantines in particular had a much harder time finding regular soldiers (that is, theme peasant-soldiers) than mercs after the devastating loss at Manzikert in 1071 (when most of Asia Minor was lost, and with it the main recruiting ground for the theme armies and the tagmatas). Hence Alexios Commenus and his successors had to depend more and more on mercenary armies. Armies that in MTW would crumble soon after recruitment, since they can't get reinforcements...which was hardly the case back in the day, as these armies proved to be quite effective, at least until the idiocy at Myriokephalon in 1176.

So, in summary, the argument that mercenaries should be enormously harder to reinforce because of some sense of historical realism just doesn’t fly as far as I’m concerned.

2) Game balance. More or less unrelated to the above, since MTW is an approximation rather than a representation of historical reality (the merits or even the existence of that is another debate entirely). IMO the other disadvantages of Mercs (lower loyalty, quicker to rout, MUCH higher maintenance cost, unstable recruitment conditions) is by far enough to compensate for the advantages of getting the units quickly (especially considering a number of merc units are far from advanced, such as normal archers and spearmen). While giving them the option of reinforcing like regular troops or a special mechanism might be too much from a game balance standpoint, allowing transfers between Mercenary units certainly wouldn’t unbalance the game (it worked nicely before the patch, it limited them somewhat, as you had to have other units to transfer from to keep your main guys up to strength, but the option was there).

So, in my opinion, I giving the mercs that option back wouldn’t screw up the game balance at all.

However, this seems to have become quite a hypothetical discussion, since it doesn’t seem possible to give players that option (unless someone with far more advanced coding skills than me finds a way).