How to stop Mongol Heavy Cav

[SlackerXS]

These horsemen are ... insanely deadly...

regular YS is no match against these guys... even due to their "spear vs cav" advantage...

MHC also runs a lot faster than regular HC... or even YC... I'm not quite sure...

I was playing custom battle... all I need is 2 groups of MHC and I can pretty much finish any type of enemies w/ ease... (nonstop flanking w/ these lightning cav...)

------------------
SlackER ~ Extreme

[qwertyuiop]

I find using trees, and tanks are effictive strategies.

For pesky MC units slow them down by engaging them with one of your cav divisions, then get the spear men a runnin.

[Rath]

Spears at same cost beat them.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

Even better, YS at lower cost beat them :-).
Try something like this vs Mongols (5k-7k):

4YS (hon 2-4)
4 Lsam (hon 0)
4 YC (hon 2-3)
2 NC (hon 2)
2 Nod (hon 2)

MHC are faster than JHC, equal fast as YC. Don't try JHC vs MHC, that's a waste of koku.



------------------
Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

[Zone]

One word: KENSIIIIIIIII! (I love them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)

------------------
Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Beating MHC is actually quiet easy. They are grossly powerful, but easy to stop with proper precaution. Firstly, gold upgraded YS with no honor will take them 1v1 every time on even ground, head on. (Gold upgrade means armor AND weapon). Purchasing this in multiplayer is actually a bit cheaper than the cost of the MHC - so you get a better unit for less money. Second, placing your YS in the woods will grant them even more of a bonus - as all Cav on both sides suffer heavy penalties in wooded areas. Third, use xbowmen. These guys are fantastic at taking down heavily armored foes, MHC included. Against Cav they must have backup however, as their firing rate is rather slow and it is unlikely that you will break a charging enemy before he reaches your line.

As to the idea posted above of using Kensai against MHC's, I would avoid this. Kensai, and their nemesis BN, consistently fall to Cav (other than Cav Archers - due to their weak melee ability). They tire too rapidly to survive such use. Also, unless your using a mod, I do not believe BS or Kensai are available against the Golden Horde.

Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Hosakawa Tito]

Chop them down with Ashi X-bowmen, engage with high honor, armor, weapons YS's. Flank with YC.The X-bows are very deadly,I use a minimum of 4 in a 16 unit army.

------------------
Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[LordTed]

Honour 0 ashigaru

[qwertyuiop]

Honour 0 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Why not honour -2!

Especially against me.

[This message has been edited by T (edited 11-18-2001).]

[Zone]

Ah well, I've found Kensi to be successful in the past. I've had one who has taken out an H6 Diaymo (who admittedly isn't MHC but next best thing), and taishos - let alone Diaymos - always take far more pounding than your normal troops. (he got 22 kills in that battle and his H went up by 6 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif)

------------------
Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[theforce]

Same honor naginata kicks their ass and costs less mate http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Vanya]

GAH! Use beefed up Yari Cavalry. Their speed and spear advantage will outperform their infantry equivalents, and they will send those Mongol bastids crying back to their mamas... that is, if they can catch them. And they are the best Jap unit suited for the chase as they are the fastest. But, heed this: only fools send in YC at less than honor 3 to fight Mongol warriors...

[theforce]

I am talking about blocking a charge mate.

------------------
Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[BakaGaijin]

Where's the rule against blocking a charge with a counter-charge? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Considering that YC are much cheaper than the MHC, they make a decent counter. Yet, they still tend to get slaughtered. Use the extra money for beefing up some YS and using them together. YC and YS in conjunction can out-flank the MHC and rout them while still costing less. Naginata Cav might actually be better for this, since they cost even less than the YC and have better attack.

------------------
Disappear into the Darkness!!

[SlackerXS]

Quote Originally posted by theforce:
Same honor naginata kicks their ass and costs less mate http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[/QUOTE]

Always got my ass beaten when using naginata against cavs... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
SlackER ~ Extreme

[Moriboy]

What BSM_ said... I won Barocca's JDD campaign and held out (usually with half the men of the enemy) against horiffic Mongol reinforcements by stocking up with YS,(golden boys), Ashi-x and a few Monks. I tucked them all in the woods high atop a hill in Izumo, and let the Yellow bastids come. (Actually I find the MLC a far bigger pain than the MHC)

In any case, golden YS with a little honor will rout MHC in the open, let alone in the woods. Golden Monks will positively dice them into human sushi as well.

[Talon43]

Use intel on enemy makeup, if large amounts of MHC, then build your force accordingly, I find combined arms most effective, use high honor, good armoured units, 2 units to 1 unit if possible. If makeup unknown, be sure you have YS & Nagata in your makeup, put at least 1 YS & Nagata in reserve and use together against 1 MCH if possible, use terrain against them, make them charge up hill or into woods. Most advise listed above is good, experiment and see which one works best for your style.

High Honor to those who give honor Talon43

[SlackerXS]

Lots of spears... will work... if they don't rout! Grrr... *sigh...

------------------
SlackER ~ Extreme

[theforce]

Man a naginata with same honor and weapon and armour upgrades beats MHC. Also for the money you can upgrade the naginata some more. Anyway try a battle in green between a MHC and naginata and see who wins. If the crap AI turns to side or it's back to you then is not my fault. A straight ecnounter will see MHC getting slaughter. In multiplayer games support your first line(high honor ys or naginata) with some nd or wm. And keep your flanks covered. It also depends if your naginata is getting shot to pieces by enemy projectile fire. Use the force :P

------------------
Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Vanya]

Or, get 16 Kensai and have them squat in a forest. When the MHC come a-knockin', the rowdy lads will cleave them a new one.

How to beat MHC if you are Mongol yourself. I have only 1 thing to say: SANDA BOMAS!

[BakaGaijin]

*extremely evil grin*

------------------
Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Shoko]

Yari Sams! in hold to take there charge then in engage at will once there charge bonus has gone http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Moriboy]

16 Kensai!!! Jeez Vanya, when do you have time to train all those?! It's a neat idea though.

[Chaguhun Khan]

My strategy beat anything that you've said (hope this being posted will draw more people to the Mongs, even though I didn't want to tell anyone):

Regular offensive: honour 3 Mong light cav (general), 2 units of honour 2 Mong heavy cav, and a unit of honour 5 weapon upgrade 1 Mong heavy cav

Set to a double layered line formation Engage At Will (EAW) tatics stance for heavy cav and single layered line formation skirmish stance for light cav. flank with honour 2 heavy cav on each side and dive directly in with honour 5 heavy cav. Light cav sits back and pelts with arrows unless if major weakness is shone. This creates almost instant death or routing for opponent, even on Expert level. I'll post more strats tomarrow and I'll face some of you if you want in about a week or two(when we get our new 1.8 Dell comp). Cya Around!

Chaguhun Khan,
Khan of the Province of Japan and loyal servant of Kublai, the Great Khan

------------------
Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and lunitic (however you spell that)

"When someone annoys you, it takes over forty muscles to frown, but only four to slap the loser upside the head."

[Chaguhun Khan]

BTW, I also beat Barocca's JDD campaign(I love it because it puts a little depth to the Mongs Conquest, but hate it because it gives the Japs a major weapons, honour, and armour advantage. I can understand the weapons and armour are a little better, but definatly not the honour). Just I beat it on expert level with the Mongols. Quite difficult, your only hope is if you avoid the Shimuzu early and attack the Mori's backside while their on their way to Kyoto. But, finally, I got it. I recommend everybody try it out for a challenge. Cya Around!

Chaguhun Khan

------------------
Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and lunitic (however you spell that)

"When someone annoys you, it takes over forty muscles to frown, but only four to slap the loser upside the head."

[Chaguhun Khan]

I've decided I'll only post my strats if asked to, so I don't just go posting my strats like an idiot.

------------------
Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and lunitic (however you spell that)

"When someone annoys you, it takes over forty muscles to frown, but only four to slap the loser upside the head."