YA and YS which is good to absorb arrows?

[oZoNeLaYeR]

i heard lots of ppl use their YA to absorb enemy's missiles. why? is it because they're cheap like a can of coke?(is can of coke cheap? $1.30 here in OZ :P)
because i prefer using YS as they last much longer in absorbing the battle and they have much much better morale. if i use YA to absorb the arrows or bullets, they rout very fast yet when they routed they made all other unit scared and might routed as well.
i might stick with YS i think, waste a bit of koku wont make my army rout like hell


[This message has been edited by oZoNeLaYeR (edited 11-28-2001).]

[Sjakihata]

If I were you I wouldn't absorb bullets http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

-And yes YA are cheap I use in single play to absorb arrows when they got some Honour.

-In MP I never absorb missiles... I think one dont have enough men 2 do that.. beside i counter fire !

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"-Know your self, know your enemy and your victory will be painless.
-Know the weather, know the terrain and your victory will be complete."
-Sun Tzu(Wu), The Art of War.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Arrow "absorbtion" is normally only used in SP games. Your opponent would need to be a dyslexic moron to allow you to do it in MP.
(No offense intended to any dyslexic morons out there..)

There are 2 main reasons to use Yari Ashigaru over Yari Samurai. First, as you mentioned - is cost. For the price of one YS unit, I can buy 2 YA units - and 2 YA last just as long if not longer than a single YS unit in "sponge" mode.

Second, and more importantly - is the issue of morale. When a unit of Ashigaru routs, it ONLY affects the morale of other Ashigaru units - meaning that your main force (assuming its non-ashi) is unaffected regardless of whether one or 6 units of Ashi rout through it. However, using Samurai (of any type - including YS) for sponging tends to result in the Samurai unit routing - and any nearby units that view this are all hit with a morale penalty. While it may not appear that they are, since they are back a bit and not in combat, once they engage you will see it - as they will break quicker due to the lowered morale. Using Ashi's keeps your main body in top shape. Using Sam's blunts the point of your sword.

Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[BakaGaijin]

Aye, YA are the best for arrow absorption (nobody "absorbs" gunshots... they just die! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif) because they're so bloody cheap and they won't send your whole army into a rout when they break. Also, if you produce them in a province with a Drill Dojo, you can often rally one unit several times.

This is especially useful for SP bridge battles. I almost always send the YA over first to waste the enemy archer arrows and draw the enemy melee troops in so my own archers and gunners can kill them. With boosted-morale YA, you can reuse one or two units and kill off most of the enemy melee troops, clearing the way for your shock troops to cross and clear off the weak missile troops.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Jaguara]

I like that strategy Baka, and I have used it myself...but would you use Naginata when they are available, or would you still throw a couple of YA in first then the Naginata?

Jaguara

[Vanya]

"Arrows cost money! Send in the [Ashigaru]... their deaths cost us nothing."

[Gothmog]

In single player, once you have naginata, who would actually bother bringing those yari ashigaru along?

The only exception probably is in winter campaign, when naginata tire too fast to be of any use. But then you use YS as crossbow fodder.

[BakaGaijin]

Vanya: Pretty much. Only it actually works. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Jagura: As it happens, I rarely build Naginata. However, I still think it's better to send the YA across first. If nothing else, they're important for making a "bridgehead" which the Naginata can then support. The Nags may be tough, but they still take losses to arrows. Better to let the peasants die first than your expensive Samurai.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Jaguara]

Thanks Gothmog,

I was replacing YA with NI once they were available in single player. I figure if I use YA, I WILL take heavy casualties, and lose a units worth, at least...but with NI, I may only lose a few men of the unit.

And taking 1 NI unit to hold a bridge instead of 3 YA means I have 2 other units available in support...

But on the other hand, if you may lose more than 1/3 of the NI unit, well perhaps it would be better to use YA first - better to lose 2 entire YA than a single NI. And I am a lot more willing to fire down on my own YA in melee than my NI...

Anyway...I am rambling incoherently now...

Jaguara


P.S. - I had written this before Baka.

Also, I like that the YA do not effect the morale of Samarai troops...


[This message has been edited by Jaguara (edited 11-28-2001).]