question for CA on models

[LeBob]

Gyl, or anybody at CA,

I am not sure how unrealistic my qestion might be but hey who knows

here it is:
As you know there are several Mods that are going very well (NapMod, LOTR, Ancient)..etc..
One thing that would be absolutely great would be to be able to change the models of the houses and other to create for example a monument (Arc de triomphe) or a LOTR one.
IS there a way you guys could help? maybe by making some program that change models made from 3D studio to the appropriate format MTW use or other way???

That was juct an humble request with a little hope...

Lord Le Bob

[GilJaysmith]

Gyl? Is that the gender-inspecific version of my name? :)

I'll see whether we're interested in releasing these tools - which could conceivably let you build new models in gMax, for example.

[Lancer6969]

Hey how about a tool that creates units and buildings as well....

[NagatsukaShumi]

GylJaySmith, that would be a pretty cool name, I think I might steal it....erm yeh.

It would be pretty cool to see a model of Orthanc or Barad-Dur in the LOTR MOD.

[LeBob]

Thanks for taking the time to answer Gul,...I mean Gal..Gil ;P

Lord Le Bob

[_Martyr_]

Yep Gil, that would be ABSOLUTELY great if you guys did that... (it would make a lot of sence, as it will prolong the life of the game, and increase it's status... as all mods for all games do...)

I know that its most likely not up to you, but if you have a shot at convincing your boss or whoever it its, be sure to mention the economic advantages of making a loyal fanbase of a series interested and content. Plus, wouldnt it be great to see Isengard, or Barad Dur in all their splender? Im sure if these mods turn out half as good as their potential, a new audience can be reached, (for example, fanatical Nap era wargamers, or the legions of Tolkien fans.)
Look at what CS did for HL... etc...
Everyone loves mods for their favourite games. Why not give this community a little extra by releasing these tools?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ok, if that doesnt work, beg http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Lord Krazy]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ July 11 2003,17:33)]

Quote[/b] ]Gyl? Is that the gender-inspecific version of my name? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


Non , he's just french http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ]I'll see whether we're interested in releasing these tools

I hope you take remand into account . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif


Quote[/b] ]which could conceivably let you build new models in gMax, for example.

Which is free and would mean poor folk like myself
might be able to create new models . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Plus poor folk with talent could do it no problem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

This is one of the missing links for the modding community
and would help many of us give more to the community at large . ( where I hope the tools will be) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I understand it's not your decision and
you had no obligation to respond ,
so thanks anyway for the consideration and the heads up.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

Or if begging doesn't work bribe them, or you could always fire flaming pigs at their offices (Yes I read the PC Gamer previews lol).

Or I could go find some fine wenches (From the corner of my street) and marry them to the CA staff)

[GilJaysmith]

We're all already married... *sob* ... to the job...

So, seriously:

OK, the pipeline for Medieval model manufacture was as follows:

- do the modelling in 3DS Max
- export the model as a .3DS file
- pass it through a custom tool which produces a .3xx file and a .txx file
- inspect it in a preview tool to see if it works (repeat if not)

Unfortunately, it seems you need to use Max 3; later versions have a different .3DS format which our tool doesn't support. Also, annoyingly, gMax can import a .3DS file but can't export one (unless someone can find a nice plugin for it somewhere).

Edit: there's a program called 3DCanvas which can export .3DS files... I'll give it a go and see whether they're compatible...

However, if anyone has Max 3, speak up, because in theory the custom tools (and a lot of luck) should be all you need. Meanwhile I'll speak to the Powers That Be to see if it will cause any great harm to release the tools. If I can find the tools source I'll ask about that too, because that would potentially allow the converter to read from other Max versions or even the gMax format if it's documented.

[LeBob]

Thanks a lot Gil

We all apreciate your help

LLB

[Lord Krazy]

Hi Gil,

Thanks again .

I have a copy of max3 .
I don't use for the stuff we working on now .
(if I did, they would sue me for giving them a bad name)
However I'm willing to run that risk http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Plus I'm willing to learn how .
I'm not alone on that for sure .
Not to mention the ones that can do it already . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

From our barganing position of zero,
I'd be happy with any of the ideas on the table .

The only harm I could possibly cause with it
is to myself . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Maybe it's not such a good idea after all . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Grumpy]

Hi Gil

I have a copy of Max 3 that is gathering dust at the moment.I'd probably prefer not to have to use it if possible. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (I'm using Milkshape 3d for low poly work at the moment.)

If the tools and the source aren't available, any chance of a roadmap for the 3xx format? I could then have a try at programming a conversion tool for Max 4.xxx style 3ds files.

I'll have a look at some 3xx files and see if any blaringly obvious ideas come to me in the meantime http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif .

Cheers

Grumpy

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (LeBob @ July 08 2003,09:47)]Gyl, or anybody at CA,

I am not sure how unrealistic my qestion might be but hey who knows

here it is:
As you know there are several Mods that are going very well (NapMod, LOTR, Ancient)..etc..
One thing that would be absolutely great would be to be able to change the models of the houses and other to create for example a monument (Arc de triomphe) or a LOTR one.
IS there a way you guys could help? maybe by making some program that change models made from 3D studio to the appropriate format MTW use or other way???

That was juct an humble request with a little hope...

Lord Le Bob
First you have to consider that all models on the battlefield comprise 2 main elements -

1) 1 or more shapes that are used to build the model
2) the various textures used to fill in certain areas on some of the shapes

You can change the shape of the model slightly or make it appear to be changed, in 3 ways -

1) by making some textures pertaining to some of the shapes contained in the model transparent
2) by making some parts of the textures transparent (think in terms of a normal house and a house raised on stilts)
3) (and this is the difficult one) by amending the names of some of the internal routines used to build a specific model

Therefore you can really change models in 2 basic ways -

1) you can change the skin of the model (all the textures that pertain to that model) but you will have the same shapes
2) you can 'omit' some shapes, or sides of shapes, contained within the model by either amending the relevant textures or 'frigging' the internal routine names

You don't require max3 to do this, but if you try it by hand it can be confusing. This is exactly why MTTM is currently being written - to do this sort of stuff.

Welly

[Grumpy]

Hi All

I've been looking at the static .3xx models and I think I've worked out the information stored. Still my strengths are in 3d modelling rather than programming so I may be wrong http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Here goes, if you find anything glaringly (or subtly) wrong please let me know.

3xx Format

(> signifies actual file entries)

-NO HEADER-

Vertices Section

> Integer - NumVerts (Number of vertices)
> (Float - VertexX, Float - VertexY, Float - VertexZ) * NumVerts

Collision Polygon Section (Polygon Points are in the range of -1 to +1.)

> Integer - NumPoints (Number of points in Collision Polygon.)
> (Float - PointX, Float - PointY, Float - PointZ) * NumPoints

Triangle/UV Section

>Integer - NumTris (Number of Triangles)
> Integer - Object/Sub Object Number }
> Integer - Vertex Index } }
> Integer - UV Map Level } } * NumTris
> Float - VertexU } * 3 }
> Float - VertexV } }

I may be able to come up with a value reader soon but if any of my past programming experiences are anything to go by any sort of editor/conversion utility will be a long time coming http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Cheers

Grumpy