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View Full Version : The Easy Byz (long)



clovenhoof
07-09-2003, 09:31
Finally, after being seduced by a few History Channel documentaries on the Eastern Roman Empire, I decided to play a campaign as the Byzantines. I am shocked and mildly disapointed at how easy it is, even on the hard setting. It's 1257 and I own more than half the map. All of the eastern most territories, all of the mideast, Egypt, all of the Italian penninsula, all of what was the Hungarian and Polish factions, as well as some originaly German provinces. My next step is either to totaly take over eastern europe, taking over Novogrod, or to storm through Africa and wipe out the Almohods. I could have taken the whole map by now, but I figured I'd be a good emporer and develop everything I possibly could while taking over the world.

Nothing seems to be able to withstand the Kataphraktoi or Pronai Alligion. Army Corps made up of four units of each in addition to 4 Vangarian Guard, 2 Trebizon Archer and 2 standard issue Spearmen seem to be invincible on the attack. I usually move my center of screening spearmen backed by 2 single rows of archers within range of the enemy formation while moving my Kataphraktoi and Pronai Alligion to the flanks. If flanking is not possible than the Kataphraktoi usually do a frontal assault with the Pronai Alligion manuevering to the enemy rear and striking there. In any case, the defending army is usually pressed between four heavy calv. on one side and four on the other. The Vangarian Guard are sent in to totaly overwhelm the defending units (and hopefully hold off spear-units) and thats about it.

Likewise on defense, a Corps made up of 2 Kataphraktoi, 2 Pronai Alligion, 2 Vangarian Guard, 4 spearmen (pikemen now),4 arbalester and 2 Catapult seem to hold anything and everything off easily. The spearmen are in the center, the Kataphraktoi split evenly on the flanks, and staggered behind them on the far flanks are the Vangarian Guard- behind these are the Pronai Alligion units, behind the flanks. Whichever side the assault hits first or hardest (usually the side that is either less wooded or on less of a slope, as I always either choose the highest possible ground or a bottleneck in the forest), the infantry of the opposite side swings down and hits its flank, while the Pronai Alligion of both sides wing out and to the rear so that the attacking force is counter-attacked from all possible directions while under the constant withering fire of 4 arbalester units and two catapults. I send the Kataphraktoi or Pronai Alligion (whichever is closest) and after the enemy general and once he is dispatched (if not before) their assault dwindles, their lines collarpse and they move from general retreat into a full on paniced route.

Bothe the defense and offense have worked incredibly well as I have not lost a battle in well over a hundred years (lol), but I am especially fond of the defense. The Golden Horde fell easy under my counter attack, tried attacking Kataphraktoi and were easily dispatched in a single battle. Likewise with the intimidating loyalist rebellion lead by the re-emergening papal faction with 250 royal knights, and scores of foot knights. They were even charging down hill, failed upon my swiss pikemen, the pope bit it under arablaster fire and once the last wave retreated I sent my army forward to annihlate the remaining foe.

Likewise for the Almohads who attacked Egypt with 4k troops more time than I can count- it was getting boring.

The greatest challenge I have found with the Byzantines is keeping my traderoutes totaly open, all the way around the world. Fleets of firegalleys, 5-10 each, patroling every waterway in the world and yet a single enemy galley in a single sea zone breaks the chain of ships and screws up my trade route. But thats the difference between 10k a year in profit and 30k.

I really wish they would have made this faction a little tougher (more fun) to play. As it is, it is extremely easy, almost not fun.

You know what IS fun? Holding my side of a map with a single bridge, using only one unit of swiss pikemen and two units of arbalesters. Watching the knights and everyone else pile up on the bridge and then retreat- 16 units beaten by two.

sorry for the looong post, but I wanted to vent.

Arrowmaker
07-09-2003, 10:24
Have you encountered the Golden Horde yet? They gave me a run for my money with BYZ but think they appear much later than when you are playing.
Also try a late period game as the Byz empire was in decline and MTW models this reasonably well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sir Chauncy
07-09-2003, 11:09
This is goning to tsound daft but you are not playing the patched (i.e. more balanced) version of the game. It removes some of these more interesting flaws such as being able to produce pikemen before the late period and stops you being able to produce swiss pikemen all over the map.
However that does not change anything the Bysantine empire in early says it is fairly easy to play and what do you know: it is fairly easy to play...

Portuguese Rebel
07-09-2003, 11:14
Well, the byz are pretty easy for sure, there is little that can be done. Now in VI they almost ever get in control of the middle east. One fun thing is playing the turks and face them in baltle. Early on the turks can only face those kataphractoi with vanilla spearmen and they don't do all that good, mainly because of their uber 8 star generals.

Magraev
07-09-2003, 11:48
I agree that byz is a bit easy - even in the corrected version of the game (no pikes).

Try playing in the high period. You don't even have byz from the start.

ShadesWolf
07-09-2003, 12:33
This is no surprise to me, the Faction Difficulty Rating is Fairly Easy for this era, Why not try it on high as his is rated as Fairly Hard

BTW on the version I ran on my guide by 1200 my empire looked like:

http://www.shadesmtw.com/gaminginfo/1200map.gif

Also my treasury looked like

http://www.shadesmtw.com/gaminginfo/1200economy.gif

Leet Eriksson
07-09-2003, 12:39
Yeah on high the Byz are hard,and constantinople is not even yours to begn withI'd go and kick out the latins first then wipe out the turks and the rest of the middle eastern factions,then roll over hungary and poland and the rest of eastern europe,then its just a matter of time before you conquer the world.

Gregoshi
07-09-2003, 16:10
Greetings clovenhoof and welcome to the Org. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif We do appreciate your Byz-ness. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

ShadesPanther
07-09-2003, 16:22
If you want a challenge play Late when you only have 3 provinces and Rhodes doesnt make much money. It is hard trying to get 60% in that amount of time so i play it slowly and have Satalite Countries like Hungary and a Egypt with only Sinai. If they decide to attack big paap country puts them in their place. Its also good to out Tech them and have small armies

Mega Dux Bob
07-09-2003, 18:19
What they really need to make the Byzantines historically correct is a real tendency for civil war. After a while you can trust your' generals absolutely, which is something no real Emperor could ever do (just read a list of them and why they died). Perhaps there is a way to mod this?

clovenhoof
07-10-2003, 07:55
Thanks for all of your responses and the welcome. The thing I don't like about starting late is that I enjoy the longer process of developing infrastructure etc. I think that civil war wasn't included as an automatic for the Byz because the factors surrounding the historical Byz civil war are loosely taken into account in the conditions for civil war governing all factions. But it should still have been included as an automatic.
What a shock and pleasant suprise it would be to find that once you have a firm grip on victory and world domination is in sight that over the course of a few generations the loyalty of certain generals begins to falter and suddenly your in a civil war. Add to this a corresponding remergence of the Turkish and Hungarians- if they had been eliminated, and you have a roughly accurate and enjoyably challenging scenario.
Starting the Byz early with the campaign that gives every faction only one territory to start would be fun.
Still, I'll have to try the Byz in the high period.

Magraev
07-10-2003, 09:04
Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ July 09 2003,10:10)]Greetings clovenhoof and welcome to the Org. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif We do appreciate your Byz-ness. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
hehe good one.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Arrowmaker
07-11-2003, 03:29
Its just turned 1231 and the Golden Horde are on my arse
Countless troops in numerous stacks in three of my provinces just appear over night. Already at war w HRE (nearly wiped out) France (same), the Pope (no contest), Italy. You just don't know how to make good enemies

Of course I will beat them...eventually and I enjoy a good fight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I am surprised that you think Bzy are a walk in the park, remember they have few natural allies being one of only two orthodox factions.

Play hard, play late - then we shall see. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

ShadesWolf
07-11-2003, 06:46
The tactics I always use when playing late on Byzans is to use mercenary units, the more the better, and this always seems to do the trick.

My armies usually have a 60/40 split.....