Ways to improve MTW

[clovenhoof]

I am sure this has been beat to death as a subject but as there is nothing quite like flogging the dead, lets beat it some more

The thing I HATE the most about MTW is the fact that there are no convinient menus for province status. Here is how it should be:

There should be an overall Empire Menu from which you can veiw the state of your empire. The various things in your empire would be listed seperately. Each would be a link to a popup window/menu. Such as

Works in progress/troop training/works completed- this would list the works in progress and any troops being trained in each and every province. Click on the province in the list and the province menu pops up as it normaly would. Completed works would say, castle complete or farming improvement 80% complete

Income- opening to the income of each province. Click on the province and the regular province window opens and the map goes to and highlights that province.

Military- opening to a menu listing each general (small portrait 1fst, name/title 2nd, command rank 3rd, number of troops 4th and location last). Click on the general and the regular army window opens as it normaly does when you click on an army on the map. An additional feature to this menu would be the option to give the general any titles that are open.

Religion- The Empire should have zeal altogether and this should be listed here and should affect with a penalty or bonus papal considerations and the stregnth of crusades. Another list here of each province and its zeal.

Technology- The techtree is here and it grows as stuff is discovered.

Lineage- This would list the Kings from start to present, click on one and what he had acheived (and maybe even a map from the end of his reign) pops up.

With some creativity this could be pretty cool. For example, in the generals menu an additional window could be accessed that tells you the victories and defeats, the great battles that a general had been in.

This leads to the next way in which MTW could be improved. More character development. I care about my generals because they are a combination of statistics that I can make work in my favor. But they really have no personality. The traits do help but not really enough. Lineage and bredding is built into the game. Look at how common certain last names are. The lineage anf family history of a general should be accesable as a window from his own menu.

What I think would be extremely cool would be a graphic representation of your capital city. A kind of glorified map (even if it was in 2d)/postcard snapshot that reflected the improvements, advancements, and growth of your Empire. I would like that alot. It would be even better if the main city in every province had such a map. But that would be a bit much to ask for.

What I dislike most about the game is having to click through each and every province, every turn, to see what is going on. It gets to be a task and it gets to be very tedious. For such a great game, it seems like a huge flaw and something easily fixed.

This is a really good game but to me, for the above reasons it falls short of great. What do you think?

[Gregoshi]

I agree cloven. A much more efficient method of finding and focusing on the areas that need your attention would be quite nice. You have some nice ideas.

The main improvement I'd like to see is trying to find a general with the right qualification to be a governor. And I like your idea for the building/training status as that is the other area where I cycle through my provinces often.

[ichi]

Clovenhoof:

A Page Up/Page Down Feature for the screens/lists of Agents, Provinces, and Generals

The ability to stack agents (emissaries, spies, assassins, religious types) to make transporting them across the map easier.

and of course, real diplomacy.

ichi

[Mount Suribachi]

Since the day I bought it (release date) I've been complaining about the poor info management in MTW. VI improves it ever so slightly, but nowhere near enough.

All your suggestions are good ones. Also, the ability to list every general (not just the ones leading stacks) by loyalty, acumen, dread etc.

[clovenhoof]

Thanks alot for your comments. I think most people who play the game would agree with us. The improvements would definitely add to the replayability.

I also agree about diplomoacy. It would be great to be able to help out allies. Give them cash. Send troops in to help defend their province or help them in an attack. This could be easily taken care of by making alliances multileveled. Lower levels are just agreements to not attack- any of your troops on their soil counts as an attack. Higher levels would be real alliances, pacts that REQUIRE you to help an ally in a time of need, either by sending X amount of troops or X amount of money. As diplomacy ties into war it should also tie into trade, and this brings up another subject- the ability to levy tarrifs. Allies of course would get low tarrifs and lesser allies higher tariffs. The diplomacy in MTW, as it is, is a transparent attempt at adding flavor to the game. And this, I think, is the overall problem in almost every area of the game. Aside from the real time battle, all aspects of the game are pretty shallow. It falls a little short of being a true strategy game. The attributes of the monarch and consequently the Kingdom are a bit two dimensional. Take Influence. The King should have different influence in every single faction and this influence should come in two ways, positive influence and negative influence. The more positive influence you have in a certain faction the more likely they are to offer you an alliance. You want a certain faction to ally with you? Lower the tariffs on his trade through your land to almost nothing, attack his worst enemies and watch the influence grow. This would make for some very interesting situations. If a player didn't want to play such an in-depth game he could just put the settings to shallow or whatever and play MTW as it is now.

Other games even have different maps for each item of status. You know that little multi-colored map in the upper left side of the screen? Well it should come in several versions. The military one shows you where your troop build up is strogest, the next tells you which provinces make the most money, the next show which are the hot spots for war etc etc.

I also like the idea of migration. The better off and happier your population is, the more folks should migrate from other provinces and factions. I dunno. Now I guess I am babbling and maybe am talking about a whole different game than what MTW was meant to be. But it kills me that it could be so great and is just really good instead.

Anyways, if you've read this far, thanks. And please feel free to add your ideas.

[Knight Keimo]

Quote[/b] (clovenhoof @ July 12 2003,02:40)]Thanks alot for your comments. I think most people who play the game would agree with us. The improvements would definitely add to the replayability.

I also agree about diplomoacy. It would be great to be able to help out allies. Give them cash. Send troops in to help defend their province or help them in an attack. This could be easily taken care of by making alliances multileveled. Lower levels are just agreements to not attack- any of your troops on their soil counts as an attack. Higher levels would be real alliances, pacts that REQUIRE you to help an ally in a time of need, either by sending X amount of troops or X amount of money. As diplomacy ties into war it should also tie into trade, and this brings up another subject- the ability to levy tarrifs. Allies of course would get low tarrifs and lesser allies higher tariffs. The diplomacy in MTW, as it is, is a transparent attempt at adding flavor to the game. And this, I think, is the overall problem in almost every area of the game. Aside from the real time battle, all aspects of the game are pretty shallow. It falls a little short of being a true strategy game. The attributes of the monarch and consequently the Kingdom are a bit two dimensional. Take Influence. The King should have different influence in every single faction and this influence should come in two ways, positive influence and negative influence. The more positive influence you have in a certain faction the more likely they are to offer you an alliance. You want a certain faction to ally with you? Lower the tariffs on his trade through your land to almost nothing, attack his worst enemies and watch the influence grow. This would make for some very interesting situations. If a player didn't want to play such an in-depth game he could just put the settings to shallow or whatever and play MTW as it is now.

Other games even have different maps for each item of status. You know that little multi-colored map in the upper left side of the screen? Well it should come in several versions. The military one shows you where your troop build up is strogest, the next tells you which provinces make the most money, the next show which are the hot spots for war etc etc.

I also like the idea of migration. The better off and happier your population is, the more folks should migrate from other provinces and factions. I dunno. Now I guess I am babbling and maybe am talking about a whole different game than what MTW was meant to be. But it kills me that it could be so great and is just really good instead.

Anyways, if you've read this far, thanks. And please feel free to add your ideas.
You did wrote just what I´v been thinking about diplomacy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Well done...

I think that diplomacy sucks at MTW. In fact, alliace seems to mean that ally is going to attack you instead of anyone else.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Old Bald Guy]

Terrific ideas, Clovenhoof.

I've got some simple ones.

1. Every title delivers a star.

As it is now, I give titles to units with four acumen. Adding a star would make me choose between having a stronger general, at the cost of lower florins, or making the governors bureaucrats.

2. A way to find the damn governors. Or put a symbol next to the stack, like the star is now.

Late in the game, they are scattered everywhere, and becoming corrupt. The only way I can do it now is give titles to four acumen militia or peasant units, then putting them in the stronghold for the balance of the game. As they become more experienced, and corrupt, their acumen increases, so leaving them in place may be better than firing them.

3. Stripping titles not only makes him unhappy about it, but actively trying to subvert the king.

I think this would be cool and add a whole new level of anxiety to ruling. Suppose one of the princes is his friend, maybe has a financial reason for the corruption. Fire the governor, and the prince starts plotting. Of course, no popup that tells you he's fomenting rebellion. You have to use a spy to learn about it. And then, you cannot remove him from the stack to isolate him. Either you have to send him into battle in an adjacent province, or use an assassin on him. Think of the possibilities this could add, when his friends learn of his death.
++++++++++++++++++++++++

MTW has endless possibilites for replay, but only if more levels of intrigue are added, such as the improvements Clov has suggested for diplomacy and control, to mitigate the tedium of actual ruling. In this era, plotting--internal as well as external--was the rule. (still is, actually) Make it harder to win the game by conquest. More levels of complexity need not add more micromanagement if information was better organized.

Then, on to adding more goals for GA. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Great topic. Sure would like to see one like this without comments like, Good idea. I have nothing to add. Just more and more good ideas from MTW players. Just my dos centavos.

[Portuguese Rebel]

A lot of good ideas floating around. Hope someone picks them up.

[Dukezer0]

Quote[/b] ]I think that diplomacy sucks at MTW. In fact, alliace seems to mean that ally is going to attack you instead of anyone else..

Exactly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ShadesPanther]

well in RTW the AI is gonna be much better at diplomacy with them realising they need you to survive and things like that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[hrvojej]

Ah, diplomacy......
One thing I would like to see is getting your fingers slapped for breaking an alliance. For example, huge loyalty drop in all provinces, drop in loyalty of generals, possibility of civil war increased, etc. IMHO, something like this would be easy to do even with the present system, since we already have loyalty drops in response to events, excommunications, etc. The only thing that would have to be implemented along wiht that is that the stratmap AI takes this into account, and doesn't blunder. As a result, you have both smarter AI, and you yourself will have to think twice before breaking an alliance, as well as actually planning with whom you will ally in the first place. I would also like to see things like allied victory, disposition of other factions towards you, plus all the things already mentioned, like many different treaties, sortable menus with all characteristics of governors included, etc. Some of these things will be in RTW judging by the annoumncements, but I hope they'll put some real weight into this aspect of the game. Battles are almost perfect, and everything else currently available fades in comparison to the tactical aspect of TW, especially the morale system, but the stratmap really lags behind it.
I know that someone might say the this game is called total war, and not total diplomacy, but still, why not? If the concern is that everything would be too overwhelming for casual gamers, that can be resolved with optional automation of many tasks. What I strive for is complexity, but I realize that some do not, and therefore I'm always advocating the scalabilty of the games - make things optional, so that those who don't want to get involved can get away with it, and those of us who do can go as deep as possible into micromanagement and control.

[clovenhoof]

I am really glad to see this thread grow and different good ideas add on as it does.

I like the idea about giving a star with each Title. Though it may be historicaly accurate, I do not really like the idea of only generals being able to govern provinces- unless I am wrong they are the only guys able to. It would be cool if there was something like a pool of people, important people, and this could be a part of something like a whos connected to/friends with/related to who menu. You might piss off the Prince by stripping his buddy the general of a title but again might balance him out or even add to his loyalty by making his brother in law the governer of some far and away, less important province.

Yes, hands should be slapped for breaking alliances Another way to do this would be, of course, that now the allies of the faction whom you broke the alliance with now all levy high tariffs against your trade. Or refuse to trade with you outright. I like the ideas already mentioned about slapping wrists. I guess all of this, all of what we have said so far, could not be modded into the game?

Something else I think should be a part of diplomacy is the willing joining of rebel factions to your empire. If your influence with them is at the highest possible point, and/or if they are in dire need of protection from another faction, and if your faction is big enough and powerfull enough already, the rebel faction would ask to join up. Conditions being of course that the King continue to be a hereditary title and that you cannot change who the Governor is. But other than that, you control the province as you would control any other. Maybe thats too much though, I'm not sure of any examples of this from the actual Medeival times.

If we are really interested in this, we should see what more suggestions we can come up with and out of those which are possible to mod.

[Degtyarev14.5]

Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ July 12 2003,06:42)]I've got some simple [ideas].

1. Every title delivers a star.

As it is now, I give titles to units with four acumen. Adding a star would make me choose between having a stronger general, at the cost of lower florins, or making the governors bureaucrats.


Good news: you can mod this in.

Go to

C:\Program Files\Total War\Medieval - Total War\campmap\startpos (default installation)

and alter the relevant sections of each *.txt file in turn. I'm just looking at Early.txt at the moment; in this one at least the stats you're after are about two-thirds of the way down the file.

Have fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

A.