Province income

[ShadesWolf]

I dont think this has been covered, if so Im sorry.

I have started a section on my web site on INCOME and thought it might be a nice touch to get you lot to contribute, this might help some of the newer players understand how to make a province make money.

The economy in Medieval Total War is made up of Income and Expenses. The expenses are the cost of maintaining the current army in that province.

The Income is made up by the addition of

- Farming
- Mining
- Trade
- Cathedrals

Trade itself is made up on a number of aspects. These include the provinces tradable resources, trade buildings, ports and if a trade route via the sea has been setup.

All income is taxed, and tax rates are set on a province by province basis. The default rate is normal, which yields a reasonable amount of cash without damaging the loyalty of the locals too much.

There are also modifiers that can be used to increase a provinces income. The selection of a gov with a high acumen (ie 4 ) gives a good bonus.

The are also other titles that will give acumen bonus.

[ShadesWolf]

Just looking at a few notes I put up on trade it appears that if is a long term challenge.

To achieve the fourth trade advance, master merchant , take a long time.
2 + 4 + 6 + 8 years = 20 years in pure building time.
It also costs
800 + 1000 + 1200 + 1400 = 4400 florins in total.

Along the way for each advance you will need to advance your fort.
ie Fort - Keep -Castle - Citadel.
So in real terms that will more than likly take 40 years to get to the master merchant taking intio account the need for a Citadel.

[hrvojej]

IIRC, somebody long time ago had done a lot of calculations on which farming improvements are worth it with regard to the base province value, etc. You may want to check the downloads section, maybe those files are still available, and might be of help.
edit: tere is a file called MTW Farm Amortization (cost/profit), I believe that those are the ones I was referring to, but I haven't checked them.

[ShadesWolf]

Thanks for the info m8

I do from time to time have problems downloading stuff from the Org.

and this happens to be one of these times.

Would u mind emailing it to me please.

ihusselbee@aol.com

[Lord_PH]

hmmm...just wondering at what periods (peace, trade, early, middle, late periods, etc.) should i modify my tax ratings?

[Doug-Thompson]

There's one very important aspect of province income that frequently gets mentioned but never gets emphasized -- How steward and good steward virtures are very easy to come by. I've never kept count, but it seems that relatively few farm improvements always delivers that virture to the ruler and several of the governors.

A 10-percent increase in farm income for all provinces for the ruler, plus whatever boosts we get from the governors is massive. Add to that the 10 percentage points boost of loyalty for each province, which reduces garrison costs.

It's not just a nice little side benefit. It's enormous. And blockade can't bring it all crashing down.

I'd love to stick around and discuss it, but I'll be off the forum for a bit.

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ July 12 2003,11:04)]Thanks for the info m8

I do from time to time have problems downloading stuff from the Org.

and this happens to be one of these times.

Would u mind emailing it to me please.

ihusselbee@aol.com
Sorry for the belated response, and sorry that I'm unable to help. I think it's my new popup stopper that prevents me from downloading as well, or maybe something else.
Cheers

[ShadesWolf]

NP Ive sorted the download problem out, I did it at work and then emailed them to myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ]How steward and good steward virtures ..... Please tell me more, Ive never noticed these

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ July 15 2003,06:44)]NP Ive sorted the download problem out, I did it at work and then emailed them to myself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ]How steward and good steward virtures ..... Please tell me more, Ive never noticed these
Good to hear that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
You can have an individual governor add +10%, +20% or +30% (Steward, Great steward and Magnificent steward) to the farming income of a province he governs. Youc an also have a ruler add +10%, +20% or +30% to all the provinces. However, I don't know whether these are calculated from the base province income, income modified by acumen, or whether the e.g. ruler's bonus is applied to the income already modified by the percentage granted by the respective governor. You can also have these same percentage bonuses to trade income. There are no V&Vs related to mining, and IIRC, mining is not affected by tax level.

[clovenhoof]

Lord Ph, I modify my tax income according to how much this will affect the loyalty of the population and this is on a province by province basis. Usualy, the longer I have a province, the more I construct buildings that seem to improve loyalty (watchtowers/keep/townguard), the more loyal the population gets, the more I tax them. I usually try to balance the percentage loyalty drops vs the percentage income rises when making the decision. Sometimes loyalty drops alot and income rises only a little- not worth it, but the reverse is definitely worth it.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Early in the game high tax rates must be balanced with province loyalty issues, especially in newly acquired provinces that have been recently conquered. There comes a point later in the game that high tax rates brings on bad vices for your governors. They get greedy and start skimming off 10 - 30 percent of the province income, thereby negating all the economic improvements one has made in ones high yield provinces. I've ruined a few otherwise excellent governors by leaving the taxes too high for too long. Once one has built up a nest egg of cash, lower the tax rate to prevent this. Try not to spend every florin, every turn. Early on this is almost impossible, but as the game wears on, and you are expanding your empire and have solidified your gains, start saving some cash.

[Gregoshi]

Um, good point Hosakawa. You've reminded me it is time to check in on my governors who have been enjoying very high tax rates for a long time. I can afford to lower the taxes in my campaign. I'd forgotten about those bad vices.

[Oaty]

And I didnt realize thats why I was getting all those bad vices. But it gave me some very nice high valour assassins and spies lol.

kk so maybe the spies and assassins were'nt very nice but they had high valour

[clovenhoof]

Hosakawa- thanks I didn't know that either. I was wondering why my carefully chosen, excellent Governors were all turning corrupt I'll have to keep that in mind. Another issue, concerning income, that really irritates me is just how easy it is for an enemy to blockade a trade route. Playing the Danish around 1160, I was bringing in around 10,000 a turn and had my longboats in a chain clear to Constantinople. Then, for no reason what so ever, the Italians decide to attack my ships and start a war with me- a war in which they have lost most of their allies. What could they possibly have to gain? Or is this just the games way of saying, ok, you got too much money so we're gonna have to knock down your income? If its the latter, than thats awefull cheesy and shallow and I'd think the creators could be at least a little more original than that.

[ShadesWolf]

OK anybody with any more info before I write a page on the stuff left here.

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: The source and effect of the good steward virtue.

The ruler's steward virtue gained announcement itself cites the extensive improvements to agriculture and his attention to farming. At face value, it seems you simply get the virtue for paying for farm improvements in multiple provinces.

I'll try coming up with a more specific answer now that I'm back from vacation.

I've never had to do anything counter-productive -- research farm improvements in Arabia or something silly like that -- to gain this virtue.

Most important, the benefit doesn't die with the ruler. At least I've never noticed a huge drop in farm income when a good steward ruler dies.

That should mean that the good steward benefits pile up in provinces that have been ruled or governed by a seccession of good stewards. +10% +10% +10% and so on.

This seems to be borne out by the improvement of marginal provinces. For instance, I recently had a province where the gain in income wasn't worth the cost of a farm improvement -- at first. After a succession of good steward rulers, though, the income to be gained went up, from 179 florins to 215 or so. That would make sense. 179*110% = 196.9. Then 196.9*110% = 216.59.

I would up investing all the way up to 80% farm improvements in what used to be a marginal farming province, turning a tidy profit and helping my ruler earn more steward virtues.

It looks good, but is it? Won't know until somebody tracks farm income improvement in a sample game. I'll check it out, but it will take time.

[Snow]

I never knew that a Cathedral could bring in some income for you. I never really bother to build them in the first place.