Rus Spearmen

[Hasek]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif Warning: Rant Notice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Russian history being as interesting as it is (to me at least http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) I modded first the original MI Early campaign and then the VI one to allow me to play the People of Novgorod. Needless to say they have a very interesting tech tree, a blend of Danish and Russian units. Despite this uniqueness they were nearly impossible to win with in the original VI with all there low loyalty generals and rebellious provinces which sometimes (read: quite often) took it upon themselves to attack my provinces with extreme prejudice.

Now when I first read up on the PoN getting Rus spears and having all these other province specific units I was overjoyed (and still am). The new units, specifically Druzhina, Rus Spearmen, Steppe Heavy Calv, and the Slav Inf+Jav, really make playing an early PoN campaign very exhilirating and I guess the only thing that I could wish for would be that CA would officially add them as a playable MP and SP faction.

Hmmm... so far not much about Rus Spearmen right? Well I'll talk about them right now. Simply put Rus Spearmen rock, these guys have all the stats of Armored Spearmen without poor morale and weak attack. This makes em pretty much only inferior spearmen to Order Foot, who have a slightly higher def, Gothic Spears, and arguably Almughavars but also brings there cost to a whopping 325 florins. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif (I know thats cheaper then the other aforementioned units but even so)

Despite the cost if you can start pumping these guys out en masse (which shouldnt be hard considering you only need a Spearmaker) you should be able to open up a veritable can of whoop ass with supporting mounted and dismounted Druzhina calv (for all uninformed, dismounted there feudal foot knights). The PoN and Russians in general have become very calvary oriented in VI with the new Steppe Heavy Cav, Boyars, Druzhina, Steppe Calv, Horse Archers, and Mounted Crossbows meaning that a solid army can consist of nearly entirely these units backed up by Vikings, Rus Spears, and a couple units of dismounted Druzhina (FFK).

In my campaign I'm currently taking great pleasure in just completely finishing the eradication the Polish, pushing hard into central Europe, and preparing a suitable welcome for the Mongols complete with an able-bodied 9 star ex-heir that I originally tried to kill off by attacking provinces where he was outnumbers by a bunch of rebels but he just kept on winning and eventually got Field defence specialist (puting down all the resulting revolts) and a score of other virtues that elevated him to demi-god status http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Anyway, that felt really good, anyone else want to share some experiences and the such about them? Maybe a get together on MP for a go? I'm here all day. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[pdoan8]

Yeap. They got many of the new and nicest units in VI (Rus Spear, DZ, Heavy Steppe Cav). A little overpowered, I would say. But, that makes playing as PoN/Rus even more fun than the Byzantine.

[Praylak]

I originally thought it was too overpowering as well. But considering they have to take the frontend of the mongol advance, I'd say it's fair.

[Sainika]

Overpowered? No I don't think so. The PoN and Russians (after liitle modding) have only two unique units: Rus Spearmen and Druzhina Cavalry. Considering the fact that Russians can't start nor Crusades nor Jihads they have to be very agressive to survive. You can't play PoN or Russians as trade empires or peaceful nations. Only permanent conquest. They got defensive units but no attacking ones (like CMAA or even FMAA, or ghazi, arab inf., etc.). This contradiction reduces the real power of the Russians (and PoN, though PoN have vikings). I've already played a number of VI games but Russians never were the dominant power. It seems to be the approval of my theory.

[HopAlongBunny]

The only bad part is you "lose" Rus spearman after the Early era; like the Vikings. No upgrading, no replacements http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[pdoan8]

The worst is in Late period when they lose Druzhina Cav too.

PoN/Rus is much stronger in Early and High. In early, Viking, Rus spearmen and Boyar make up the main army. In High period, they start to get Druzhina Cav. This is the best unit, but not as cav. I usually have 8 of them in my army, but I will dismount most of them to get FFK, 60 FFK instead of 40 like other factions. For me, 60 FFK are much better than 60 CMAA/FMAA.

[Old Templar]

Nowgorod in Early (modded to be playable) can be easily modded to make the RusSpearmen available for later periods. This is even historically correct - the "Lati" or pikemen were available until the late 1600.
Use the Gnom editor to make them available later.

[Hasek]

The main thing they seem to lack in in most periods in IMO is a mainstay unit, Halberdiers just don't make up for no swords at all. This is somewhat remedied in SP by the fact that dismounted Druzhina give you a unit of FFK, which isnt the case in MP where you cant dismount them or even purchase FFK at all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

We want swords

[Hakonarson]

"Rus" are not historical as late as 1600 lol Militia yes, but even then spears had been replaced by firearms in the mid-1500's as teh standard weapon.

the "Rus" gradually transformed into the Kievan states during the late 1000's, and the classes that had been the good spearmen became cavalry instead - minf you early Russian cavalry was mostly javelin armed, NOT bow armed as the boyars are http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Infantry were divided into 2 main groups - "Polk", and "Smerdy" - Polk were mainly city dwellers and apparently still well ergarded. "Smerdy" were country peasants and could be good but were less likely to be well equipped than the city troops. Both provided small numbers of archers and even less cavalry.

This makeup of army was crushed by the Mongols. After the conquest the Prince of Novgorod and other remaining independant states prety much adopted the Mongol style of warfare. Cavalry adopted the bow, the richer were termed "Dvor" and might add lance and occasional body armour. The bulk of Russian cavalry were Boyars and retainers.

Infantry was strictly secondary and supplied by town militias, perhaps not even being fielded much at all until the time of Ivan III in 1469.

Muscovite rulers were said to be especially good at ingtratiating themselves with the Mongols (it was during the period after Mongol Conquest that Moscow became pre-eminent) and then leaving them discretely on the eve of battle :o

After Kulikovo in 138- Tartars and Cossacks becmae more common in Russian armies too, both as fierce light horse and as skirmishing infantry.

[Aelwyn]

The Russians do have Militia Sergs and I'm pretty sure the PoN do as well. They can be substituted for some sword units, although they have worse morale. Put them in an army with a good general to get them some valour, and they'll cut down some of the other factions' sword units, esp. units like V. Guards which have higher armour. They're vulnerable to missles, but thats not too much of a problem.

In MP I would never take Druzhina Cavs, eventhough theres 60 of them, their morale is horrible. Oh and, PoN are available in MP Hasek, just so you know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

To me, the hardest part about playing this faction is making enough money, if you don't expand quickly. I usually take Lithuania and start making ships. They have a few good provinces to start out with, but most are just large and barren.

[Hasek]

Yes I saw that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif thanks anyway though Ael. Oh and thanks to Hak for that informative passage on their military. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Old Templar]

Hakonarson - before you you issue a "correction", I would suggest you get the historical facts first.

"Lati Kopieshchika" (Pikeman) were units armed with pikes as well as guns (I can e-mail you a picture if you wish). Most of them were mercenaries and used by Zars Micheal and, primarily, Alexei. Their last documented use was by Zar Alexis Mikhailovich (1645 - 76).
I suggest you read John Sloan, todays most respected english expert on Russian history. John frequently publishes with Russian historians and must be considered an expert.

I hope that clarifies the situation. No apology needed here; as a teacher I have to deal with sceptics every day.

[Hakonarson]

OT I know the Muscovites had pike and shot units - "Germans" and natives both from the early 1600's - however you were mentioning them in conjunction with Rus spearmen and it seemed to em you were saying that Rus spearmen were "Lati" pikemen - which I hope you will agree is nonsence.

[Sainika]

Actually Russians did have armored swordsmen, but prefered axes. I have a beautifull pics of russian medieval armies (though it is in Russian, the pics are worth seeing - strongly recommended) if you want some translation - ask me for that).
Give a look at this:
http://vestep.narod.ru/base/krus/3pic2.html
These are russian and finno-ugric warriors of X-XI cent.

[DemonArchangel]

Well, i gave the PoN varangians, better than Rus Spearmen any day of the week. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Razor1952]

An intersting faction to play IMHO.

I suggest people try Medmod 2.04 High expert and try to whoop the GH as they emerge.

Got them beat and elimated by 1241, though then the Turks attacked me in my weakened state and I let a civil war reduce me to a rump, now have the Danes as an Uber power with uncountable boats and my only hope to assinate the faction to rebels Still having the GH arrive after 25 years on your patch is a nasty shock.

Starting High gives no Rus spearmen, perhaps modding them in is a good idea.

BTW I've noticed 5 star spies don't seem to get caught by BF's ? anyone confirm or refute this pls.

[Razor1952]

An intersting faction to play IMHO.

I suggest people try Medmod 2.04 High expert and try to whoop the GH as they emerge.

Got them beat and eliminated by 1241, though then the Turks attacked me in my weakened state and I let a civil war reduce me to a rump, now have the Danes as an Uber power with uncountable boats and my only hope is to asassinate their faction to rebels Still having the GH arrive after 25 years on your patch is a nasty shock.

Starting High gives no Rus spearmen, perhaps modding them in is a good idea.

BTW I've noticed 5 star spies don't seem to get caught by BF's ? anyone confirm or refute this pls.