Is there a simplified Unit/Structure flow chart?

[Inigo Montoya]

My newest hangup on MTW is the poster that shows the building and units on opposite sides. As you develop provinces a little more, the number of structures available to build increases seemingly exponentially, which makes it hard for we clueless to keep track of our ultimate "goal". Has anyone put together a modified chart that simply indicates which units become available as each building is completed. I'm not looking for a detailed analysis of unit v. unit - just a better game plan for building things.

[frogbeastegg]

Unfortunately there is no easy way around MTW's tech tree, although you could try the following:

1. A guy named bushface made a MTW tech tree which will fit on a sheet of A4, it's very good. Unfortunately it only covers the English. Try emailing him at rffBLAHBLAH@tesco.net (Remove the BLAHBLAH to get his real address, it's to cut down on the Spam he receives). He also has a VI tech tree (excellent, it fixes no less than 7 errors on the pdf, prints onto A4 and is readable) and a set of two maps showing the MTW and VI world province by province with resources like iron and trade. I definitely recommend this.

2. Bradygames strategy guide has a smaller version of the tech tree that is easier to follow. The buildings are spread over two pages and the units are listed over several more pages along with the buildings needed to build them. The guide also has some useful unit descriptions, stats etc but unfortunately this is less useful since VI updated the units. If you can find a copy it's worth a go (I sound like a sales person )

3. Read my long winded explanation below (Or just skip to the link which is very useful )

The tech tree is quite easy to follow once you understand how it works. There are several levels for each building (troop production, farming etc). Most buildings require a certain level of castle to produce (the exceptions are farmland, mines, watch towers/border forts. I think that's all of them). You will always have to upgrade the castle one level to build the next building in a family e.g. if you have a spear maker you will need to upgrade the castle to the next level before building the spear makers workshop. The family evolution goes whatever -> whatever workshop -> whatever guild -> master whatever. For buildings that don't need a castle you can just build the next one straight away. Some buildings are time limited; you can’t build any of the gunsmiths or foundries until you get the message about gunpowder being discovered. One of the ship builders is dependant on the compass but I can't remember which. Generally for the Catholics you want to build each level of a building until the 'feudal' unit becomes available. After that you will need to wait until 1205 before the chivalric units are available so it's not always worth building up to master level straight away. However each master level building gives a valour bonus to it's units so you do need to decide whether you are going to pursue this bonus early by building a chain of buildings that won't give any units for quite a while.

A suggested build order for a Catholic faction would be:
Province 1 = cavalry. Build a royal estate, armourer's workshop, horse breeder, town watch, spear makers workshop, improved farmland 20% and castle. This will allow you to build the best Feudal cavalry. This is a slow and expensive process, which gives you Feudal Knights at the end, with other good cavalry in between like mounted sergeants.

Province 2 = archers. Build a fort, town watch and bowyer. Archers are cheap and easy.

Province 3 = infantry. Build a spear makers workshop, sword smith, keep, and town guard. This will give you feudal sergeants, feudal men at arms, peasants, militia sergeants as well as their inferior counterparts like spearmen. Some people split infantry between two provinces either as one for sword/heavy infantry and one for spear/pikes etc or as two identical provinces capable of producing all melee infantry.

Province 4 = agents. Build a castle, brothel, tavern, royal palace, church, chapter house and monastery. This gives you all the agents except grand inquisitors and cardinals who aren't available till 1205 (Grand Inquisitors definitely aren't available till 1205, I'm not so sure about cardinals)

At this point you could leave each province before building up further or you could keep going towards higher castle levels to get the master valour bonus and to have the chivalric troops available as soon as it's 1205. If money is tight you should stop upgrading at this point until you get more cash. If you have plenty of florins keep going. You may also want to add an armourer to each province to give armour bonuses. If you have iron in your province the same applies to metal smiths (attack bonus). Churches and religious buildings add to morale so you can build those too.

Unless you want to be mobbed by spies/ assassins etc build border forts in all your provinces. In troublesome provinces like Scotland, Portugal etc build a keep along with a church and maybe a tavern as these increase happiness and reduce the chance of a revolt.

Economic build up is more complicated but basically the more farming income you get from a province the faster you get your investment back. Upgrade your richer provinces first. Always build mines no matter what type as they are guaranteed income and pay for themselves quickly. Mines are the first priority for quick reliable cash. Trade can be very rewarding but its subject to wars and blockades, which can make it unreliable. It is also slower to set up and quite expensive. There is a lot about trade here http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....;t=3823 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=3823) , the link also has some stuff about buildings etc.

That should get you through the first few turns, after that you should be able to cope. Bear in mind that this is a highly subjective area and some people will disagree strongly with my build order. Also it doesn't do much for the Orthodox or Muslim factions. It's really just a matter of practise, after you spend a while staring at the tech tree and unit info you start to remember it so don't give up.

The unit build information on the back of the MTW tech tree is quite clear once you know the building upgrade process. It basically works on the principle of new building=new troop which is an upgrade of the previous one. Chivalric units are only available after 1205, gothic after 1321. The ranged units go archers in feudal, crossbows at 1205 and arbalesters at either 1205 or 1321 (I can't remember I think 1321 ) For the Muslims and Orthodox there are few units limited to different eras so most of their units are available as soon as the building is complete. If you played Shogun (by your name I guess you have) think of the valour bonus given by each successive building upgrade and substitute a more advanced type of that unit for the valour, so instead of spear building 2 giving +1 valour to yari samurai think of yari samurai with better armour, equipment and training under a new name.


Whew I hope that helps Even if it doesn't I've practised my speed typing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[JohnCee]

Quote[/b] (Inigo Montoya @ July 16 2003,01:15)]Has anyone put together a modified chart that simply indicates which units become available as each building is completed. I'm not looking for a detailed analysis of unit v. unit - just a better game plan for building things.
Admittedly I could be missing something here but the unit progression on the back of my tech tree does tell me what buildings you need to build in order to produce which unit.

It can be annoying in that you have to hunt around a bit to be sure that you've seen everything that becomes available after you've built each unit producer. This does become less of a problem as the game eats more of your life (I'm beginning to forget what daylight looks like, I better get out in the sun soon or Major Rob D might start chasing me away from his pickup ). Still I suppose you should be able to reverse engineer the flow chart you want from there.

BTW I didn't realise your name came from Shogun, I thought it was a ref to The Princess Bride, Doh

[Inigo Montoya]

FBE -

Great response.... Exactly the type of information I was looking for Thanks very much. Also, are you a fan of the "Thief" series?

JC -

I don't find it annoying so much as confusing, as I have had some problems reaching the goal I was trying to achieve - but I'm just starting out with the TW series of games, so there's a lot to learn. As I gradually lose track of the sun, I'm sure I'll get a much better grasp of it. Oh - and my name does refer to "The Princess Bride" - the quote also comes from the movie, but the only Inigo quote most people remember is "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

[frogbeastegg]

Yes I'm a thief fan, it's one of the best series on the PC.

Er Princess Bride? Oops, I thought your name sounded like the ones dished out to the generals in Shogun. Strange thing is I've been meaning to watch that film

Anywho glad I could help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[JohnCee]

Quote[/b] (Inigo Montoya @ July 16 2003,09:29)]the quote also comes from the movie but the only Inigo quote most people remember is "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
Does it? Inconceivable

I first got to know Total War through medieval too. I've taken the approch if they have a bow they probably come from an archery type thingy, if it's a big pointy thing on a stick then they come from either the spearmakers or the town hall (or whatever), if they have swords then it's the swordsmiths and if they have a horse build a horse breeders or a royal court.

It's not perfect but as a rule of thumb it helped me find the unit on the reverse of the tech tree.

BTW Froggie, the film is really good it's like a Brothers Grimm story on LSD.

[Degtyarev14.5]

Really good? May I beg to differ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I see it as just another sappy romantic comedy, with some slapstick thrown in for good measure.

"Aaa-aaaa-aa-aa-aaaaa-aas yo-oooo-oo-o-oooo-o--o-ou wi-i-iii-i-iii-ish"

A.

[Martok]

Quote[/b] ]Does it? Inconceivable


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[JohnCee]

Quote[/b] (ArseClown @ July 16 2003,19:47)]Really good? May I beg to differ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I see it as just another sappy romantic comedy, with some slapstick thrown in for good measure.

"Aaa-aaaa-aa-aa-aaaaa-aas yo-oooo-oo-o-oooo-o--o-ou wi-i-iii-i-iii-ish"

A.
Really?

Each to his/her own I suppose, I read the book first so maybe that helped but I liked the humour and the way it plays on existing fairytale cliches (sp?) including the sappy romance.

But maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[Inigo Montoya]

Whoo-Hoooo It's turned into a "Princess Bride" thread

For my money, it's the best "Fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles..." movie ever made

And as for "As you wish", the sappiest/most sentimental moment was when Columbo repeated that line to Kevin Arnold right at the end of the movie, and even though I was just at the right age to find it very uncool, it reminded me of my grandfathers who always had time to take me fishing or play Monopoly or read books with me.... and it still does.

I read the book first as well, thanks to a teacher who forced her entire library on me. I couldn't believe how well the movie captured the spirit of the book, while doing an even better job (IMO) of keeping the sick kid/grand-dad story running through the "story".

Plus, it's the best movie role Andre the Giant ever played.

[Degtyarev14.5]

Perhaps my deep-seated aversion to this movie stems from my older sis's obsession with it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Likewise with Robin Hood: Men in Tights.

"You've been into the sacramental wine again, haven't you? You drunken mule, you"

A.

[Martok]

The Princess Bride is one of the few movies where virtually everyone I know (as in at least 90%) likes it. It's got a little something for everyone, as Inigo just inderectly pointed out. Personally, I think that movie was one of the best-written (and therefore, best book-adapted) screenplays I've ever seen. It poked fun at the whole adventure/romance genre while still being a pretty good story in its own right.

Of course, I'm probably biased in that I have also read the book. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Demon of Light]

One summer my sister and I watched the movie so many times we memorized it. I still remember chunks of dialogue.

My favorite part is where Vinzini dies. Very funny moment.

[Maelstrom]

Loved that film. Worth seeing just for the fencing sequence...

It it me or has this tread drifted slightly OT?... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Martok]

Eh, maybe just a wee bit. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif