Feudal Foot Knights and Chivalric Foot Knights.

[DocMoriartty]

Right now the backbone of my army is Feudal Sergeants and Feudal Men at Arms. I have just recently gained the ability to build the Chivalric version of both troops.

My question is this. Is it worth the effort to build all the required buildings and then pay the huge cost for these units? I would probably use them in place of the Men at Arms while keeping the Sergeants as my main blocking wall.

[DrHaphazard]

I beleive you mean Chivalric Men-at-Arms, which is different from Chivalric Foot Knights (CFK are Chivalric Knights that have been dismounted to fight on foot and are, to be blunt, badasses.)

In any case, the short answer is yes you should build them because eventually your enemies will build them and Chivalric Men-at-Arms can beat up on Fuedal Men-at-Arms (why bother to have them if they couldnt?) In any case, you should also upgrade your buildings so that you can get even better soldiers than Chivalric MaA.

Of course, not EVERY province needs to be able to make these guys. Some prioritizing is always good. But several provinces on the ocean that can make them will be good so they can be shipped anywhere when disaster strikes.

[DocMoriartty]

So can you not build Chivalric Foot Knights as their own unit?

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (DocMoriartty @ July 17 2003,15:35)]So can you not build Chivalric Foot Knights as their own unit?
No they turn up as dismounted Knights... You can dismount High/Late Period Royal Knights, Chivalric Knights, Knights of Templar, Santiago and Hospitallar.

To dismount your Knights right-click during deployment and select dismount, the change will only occur for that battle only.

(Of course you can have Chivalric Foot Knights, if you MOD it, or Buy a rebellion with them in)

EDIT: you cannot get Feudal Foot Knights this way, because Feudal Knights cannot dismount... The only way to get them is to MOD or buy a Rebellion.

[DocMoriartty]

So when I read through a list of units and their building requirements I was really seeing the building requirement for the mounted unit.

[Knight Keimo]

Quote[/b] (DocMoriartty @ July 17 2003,10:15)]So when I read through a list of units and their building requirements I was really seeing the building requirement for the mounted unit.
That´s right.. Dismount Chivalric Knights if you want them.

BTW, what would be the point to be able to train same soldiers at both mounted and foot versions?? Knights can fight on foot or horseback, isn´t that great after all?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[DocMoriartty]

So at this point I am guessing that my most powerful infantry possible would be Chivalric Men at Arms.

[hrvojej]

Quote[/b] (DocMoriartty @ July 17 2003,10:28)]So at this point I am guessing that my most powerful infantry possible would be Chivalric Men at Arms.
Yes, unless you mod the game to make foot knights buildable. I play with them being buildable, and for me it's fun.
Also, it depends on what do you mean by most powerful. In many cases, halberdiers and pikemen actually work better than any other infantry. Fighting against cavalry is one example, but I also find that if you can keep halberds from routing (due to their low morale), they will make a short work of chivalric man-at-arms, or pretty much anything else. When you assault a castle defended by them (when they cannot rout but will fight to the last man), you'll see what I mean.

[Tony]

CFK and JHI are the baddest of the badasses on foot. These guys take anything they get hold of and tear it up. They regularly fight to the last man regardless of the situation and take a lot of killing, even on low valor. I have seen 60 CFK chop 96 Swiss Armoured Pikemen into bloody chunks. Badasses.

They have it all - melee/defense/armour/morale/bonus vs cav.

If you can trick the stupid AI into sending Heavy Cavalry into woods to melee CFK or JHI you can sit back and contemplate what you are going to do with the several tonnes of horsemeat that will result. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Same goes for the other super horsekillers - Halberdiers and Billmen.

[Degtyarev14.5]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ July 17 2003,09:59)]EDIT: you cannot get Feudal Foot Knights this way, because Feudal Knights cannot dismount... The only way to get them is to MOD or buy a Rebellion.

Not quite...

Some cav units can dismount only in castle maps. Feudal knights are among these.

A.

[DrHaphazard]

Also it is important to note that there is (as far as i recall) at least two provinces that give valor specifically to dismounted knights. I beleive Brandenburg gives +1 valor to Gothic Foot Knights and then theres another province for Chivalric Foot Knights. If someone knows the provinces, please fill us in.

I have never yet decided to dismount my knights, but I'm guessing that if you had the above units built in the right province they would gain valor simply by dismounting them.

Oh and Doc, its also important to note that if you upgrade your sword building to a Master Swordsmith then any sword wielding unit from that province gets a +1 to valor. Another good reason to upgrade. Of course i do believe you have to have a Citadel or probably a Fortress to be able to construct such a building.

[The_Emperor]

I think Tulouse is the province for +1 Valor Chivalric Knights, and Ile de France is for Chivalric Foot Knights. Though what appears on the map is not always true... For instance Castile should give a +1 Valor to inquisitors, but it is not so.

[ShogunRokkaku]

I build chilvaric knights with the intent of dismounting them, these guys are absolutely brutal but the thing is they add such a hard edge to the battle line, a bastion of absolute power, especially when they first are buildable. Two units of these powerhouses on foot can make your enemies battle plan turn over on its head as no-one wants to take them on. I usually play muslim factions and its a pity that the computer hardly ever has them(in my experiance) because it would constitute some truly horrific but brilliant fighting between them and my JHI.

[Hoplite]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ July 19 2003,03:17)]I think Tulouse is the province for +1 Valor Chivalric Knights, and Ile de France is for Chivalric Foot Knights. Though what appears on the map is not always true... For instance Castile should give a +1 Valor to inquisitors, but it is not so.
Inquisitors and Grand Inquisitors trained in Castile start with two stars, just like Assassins trained in Syria.

[vodkafire]

Quote[/b] (Hoplite @ July 21 2003,14:57)]
Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ July 19 2003,03:17)]I think Tulouse is the province for +1 Valor Chivalric Knights, and Ile de France is for Chivalric Foot Knights. Though what appears on the map is not always true... For instance Castile should give a +1 Valor to inquisitors, but it is not so.
Inquisitors and Grand Inquisitors trained in Castile start with two stars, just like Assassins trained in Syria.
Not true, i build assassins in Syria all the time as well as inquisitors in Castile all the time, no bonus. Maybe this is different in 2.0, i play 1.1

[SmokWawelski]

In 2.o there is a +2 bonus to inquisitors build in Castile. I also think that WesW addressed that prior to ver 2.0 too...

[Hoplite]

Quote[/b] (vodkafire @ July 22 2003,01:25)]Not true, i build assassins in Syria all the time as well as inquisitors in Castile all the time, no bonus. Maybe this is different in 2.0, i play 1.1
Could be (and probably is), I haven't played v1.1 in a long time, so I can't remember if the bonuses were there or not.

[Sam Adams]

SAPS will defeat chivalric foot nights. I tested it some time ago. The CFKs killed more than they lost, but the numbers of the SAPs decided the fight, and the CFKs ultimatly broke.

VG I would guess would chew up CFKs. I havent tried it though.

[Sulla]

A unit of militia sergeants (high valour) can beat foot knights anyday and twice on sunday, especially in MP(same with varangian guards) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .....

Got something to do with axes pounding armor of knights to tiny little pieces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

regards Sulla

[The_Emperor]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Syria have a bonus to Nizaris instead of assassins?

and in V2.0 I have yet to see Inquisitors get a valor bonus in Castile (you sure he wasn't a hero unit like Guy of Gisbourne)

[DemonArchangel]

Varangians, JHI's, CFK's and Beserkers are the baddest hard asses in the medieval world. Never f**k with them.

[Sulla]

Well im not very font of JHI, i think CMAA and/or halberdiers val 3 or higher can kick there asses anytime (in a 15k MP game anywayz)

regards sulla