Who do you like to use as generals?

[Chaguhun Khan]

What unit do you like to use as a generals unit? Personally, I like for Japs Cav Archers(or Arquebusiers) backed by Naginata Cavalry(with my strategies of course). For Mongs I like Korean Skirmishers or Mongol Light Cavalry backed by Mong Heavy Cavalry. Your favorites?

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Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and lunitic (however you spell that)

"When someone annoys you, it takes over forty muscles to frown, but only four to slap the loser upside the head."

[Vanya]

Arquebusiers. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

[Zone]

Monks

[Sjakihata]

Attakcer: Monks
Defenders: Japanese Cav. Archers.

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"-Know your self, know your enemy and your victory will be painless.
-Know the weather, know the terrain and your victory will be complete."
-Sun Tzu(Wu), The Art of War.

[SlackerXS]

Cav archers... both Japanese or Mongols..

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SlackER ~ Extreme

[Rath]

Yari Sam...why put them in a unit that comes under fire or is needed to be in the thick of the action?...the gen is just more likely to die.

[Gaxebo-sama]

Heavy or Yari Cavalry.

I believe a team leader (attacker or defender) should participate phisically in the battle directly. Close combat, Chase and kill the enemy to get a higher honour.
*******
Kill'em All!!!

[Rath]

i was talking about multi where you don't have to worry about getting your gen to gain honour...

[theforce]

Arq as a general? I recommend not using that unit at all mate. Anyway l use no dashi as general and sometimes a cavalry unit like NC or YC and more rarely HC.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Whitey]

HC General, MHC General,

*looks at others choices*

'heh - honourless dogs!' http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[DoCToR]

I'm with you Whitey...

HC in SJ period; YS in Jap v Mongol
SOmetimes a Kensai if i'm feeling bold enough... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
MHC if i'm Mongols

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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MizuDOC Otomo
DrJambo Ouchi

[Chaguhun Khan]

My word, now why would anyone put a general at the frontlines? Let him sit back and pelt them with artillery(arquebusier can be used nicely before you do a cav charge). Thats my two cents. Cya Around!

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Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and servant of the Khan of Khans

Quote from the Book Of Shogun:

A general should be ALWAYS mounted...
Preferably the best unit on the field.

Therefore, my gen is always a Heavy Cavalry in MP battles.

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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 11-29-2001).]

[Chaguhun Khan]

I've recently been doing a lot of research on ancient Mongol strats, which I have intigrated into mine (among these using Light cav as general). In other words, anyone who faces me will have a few surprises http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif.

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Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and servant of the Khan of Khans

[Shoko]

Quote Originally posted by Terazawa Tokugawa:


A general should be ALWAYS mounted...
Preferably the best unit on the field.

Therefore, my gen is always a Heavy Cavalry in MP battles.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I think now HC have been made stronger, we will see alot more ppl using them as their Gen's http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Shiro]

Cav, duh! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Chaguhun Khan]

Dishonour! Its rude to stick your tongue out at people! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and servant of the Khan of Khans

[This message has been edited by Chaguhun Khan (edited 11-29-2001).]

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Hmm.. Looks like I may be the only one to do this - but my General is always Naginata Infantry whenever I have a choice. The reason is simple - both the AI and Human opponents tend to focus on the Taisho - as his elimination results in an across the board morale drop. Making your Taisho a Naginata infantryman means he has the highest defensive rating in the game, as do all the men in his unit. This allows him to survive longer under attack, and giving me the opportunity to flank his attackers without having to worry about him passing on or routing. While he can't kill the enemy as quickly, the Naginata's ability to soak up damage is phenomenal, and gives me the time needed to put a hurt on the AI or on a human who does not consider the danger of hitting a wall of man-sized tanks.

Thoughts?
Qapla!



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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Chaguhun Khan]

Bravo! I like it! I believe I'll try that. Thanks!

Chaguhun

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Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and servant of the Khan of Khans

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Of course - Armor upgrades are best used on already heavily armored units. In SP, I rely heavily on Tanks, as I can produce them in provinces with Armor upgrades and use them to their max effect immediately.
Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[BakaGaijin]

Actually, I believe that both honour and armour (probably weapons, as well) work on the principle of Diminishing Returns. I.e., adding armour to a Naginata is less of a bonus, relatively speaking, than adding it to an Ashigaru. You still get a nice bonus, and a Gold Armour Naginata unit is still damned near invulnerable, but it's not as big a difference.

I think in sub-5000 koku games, I'd use Naginata without upgrades as a general. Not much at that koku level can really threaten them, so I can move them up and possibly use them in melee. 5000+, it's all about the Cavalry. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif With the changes in 1.02, I may use Heavy Cavalry Taisho, but in old STW, I used Cavalry Archer Taisho pretty much exclusively.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[tootee]

NC, now maybe HC. WM for jungle warfare.

--tootee aka goldfish

[Khan7]

*is SORELY tempted to lecture on how this NI tank thing is crap*

*resists*

Well then..

Matt

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Khan,

Go ahead. You and I have crossed enough to know that we have VERY different play styles, but it doesn't mean that one opinion is better than the other. I personally would love to know the reasoning you don't think Nagi as generals is a good idea. While you won't get me to do this often, I will admit that I have tried some of your points and found them to be mostly valid. Its simply a matter of play styles. So feel free to whack away at something like this.
Qapla!
Skkz

[Chaguhun Khan]

A honourable and wise person to ask for correction and oppision. Bravo to Skkzarg!

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Official Mongol Cavalry-lover and servant of the Khan of Khans

Khan,

Nagis standing, on hold are real tanks. So they will hold long. However IMO, the gen has to be a very mobile unit...unlike the nag.

Tera

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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Terazawa,

Again, its a matter of play style. If I am playing a game, whether online or SP, I prefer to have plenty of time to work. Its a personal preference. Because of this, the use of Tanks, if you will, fit my style. My units rarely are spread thin, and only when an opening occurs will I split off a fast force for a raid operation. Since this is my style, my armies tend to mix a balance of Naginata, Archers and Hard-Hitting Cav - Nagi or Heavy variety. I do round it out with a couple of SF forces, specifically one or 2 BN's when possible.

While slower than the majority of forces this will face, the mix tends to do well for me personally, as it allows a focus of extreme firepower (including H2H attacks) to be brought to bear on targets. With the naginata protecting flanks or pinning a battle line, it often occurs that one enemy flank can be rolled. Once a flank collapses, the enemy is doomed as they must disengage the tanks to face the flankers, or allow themselves to be hit from the side and rear by strong cavalry. It becomes a Hobson's choice, as either decision results in the destruction of the unit or units in question.

The only counter I have found to this, tends to be a likewise equipped army (that gains position or is better handled), or a musket and archer camper on a hill with woods at his back. The woods usually hide a few Yari Sams that will decimate a flanking Cav group. The camper still needs some luck as my Nagi's can usually climb most hills unless the camper is smart and holds his fire to proper mass volleys.

BakaGaijin - Armor upgrades could be a question of diminishing returns. However, my view is that if you take a heavily armored unit, add a +3 bonus to that, it does make them tougher. Statistically, the upgrade does provide a greater percentage of protection if applied to a unit that is less armored. However, improving a units protection from (a subjective rating of)satisfactory to very good cannot add the survivability that I need from my units. Going from very good to nearly invincible does provide me the tank status I seek for these units. This is why I apply the bonus to Naginata as compared to say, Yari Samurai.

Again, whatever approach one takes is fine, as we are allowed different play styles. Many players are like Velociraptors - Fast and hard hitting, but unable to take a return blow. Some are more balanced. And some, like myself, are more like a Triceritops, slow and ugly, but tough and hard hitting.

One reason I personally prefer this style is it allows me to enact what I refer to as an active defense. Even in attacking, if one keeps their mind in a defensive stance - they follow a key rule of Sun-Tzu.

To paraphrase it -
Before you enter battle, make yourself invincible. Then seek out the weakness of your enemies. Once you cannot be beaten, victory becomes a foregone conclusion.

Qapla!


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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[BSM_Skkzarg]

For those of you who are confused about an active defense in the course of an attack, you should look into the strategy of the true masters of the technique. That would be General Robert E. Lee, from the American Civil War period. While on a true attack he never proved successful, his artful use of defensive counterattacks and the "active defense" show what he could have done had he used these tactics in offensive operations instead of purely in defense.

Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[BakaGaijin]

Skkz: Excellent points all around. The supreme strength of the tank strategy is not to be denied under any circumstances. I still prefer my more Rommellian school, but that's what this whole business is about, eh?

I think I play the way I do more because I don't have the patience to set up a proper tank army and get them to march around nicely. Better to flow like water, strike like lightning!

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Baka,

I never did have the patience either, until I started moving units as groups in Hold Formation mode. With this, I can move a group at a time. And with the ALT-Click function, I can move all 4 or 5 groups quickly once their initial formation is set, as ALT-Click lets you move without having to redraw your line.
Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Khan7]

BAH! Sorry guys.

You misunderstood what I was talking about. It was late and I guess I was being inarticulate/incoherent.

Okay, I was *acknowledging* that they *were* tanks. Very good strategy I'm sure you have BSM. I wouldn't doubt it.

I was just saying that as far as realism/history goes, that's crap. Please forgive me for sparking so many long posts in vain.

Or perhaps they weren't in vain, but they weren't what I was talking about http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

Oh well, I'm still not going to give that realism lecture, as I realize this is not the point of the v1.02 patch.

Bah, that's funny http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Matt

[BakaGaijin]

In that case, point taken. Large polearms may be unwieldy compared to a nimble sword, but their killing power is completely undeniable. Chop, chop! Oops, is that your head? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

I wouldn't mind having realistic Naginata, but the unrealistic Nagi tanks DO offer more varied tactics than realistic ones would, so, you know... 'tain't no big thang.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!