Hi all, and help me repel the GH !

[Pdifolco]

Hi everybody http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I'm an old Shoggy player, but just got MTW 2 weeks ago, when I found it for 15€ in a classic edition (but with full printed manual and tech poster, cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).
I've passed on the game initially fearing my old Athlon500 rig won't handle it, but after tweaking the PCI texture mem size and AGP aperture size (as recommended on tech boards) I manage to have say 15 fps on big SP battles (1000 a side), not that smooth but playable http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I registered a few days ago and was somewhat rebuked by the patronizing process, at first I wanted to post everywhere, but well, I'll do with it, maybe it's really useful for having a more friendly community... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
The game is really good and engrossing, now I regret not to have gotten it earlier and will surely buy VI

About the game now : after playing some battles and test standard campaign games (only a few decades) to have a good grasp of the mechanics, I've switched to WesW mod 1.85 - I like what he's done, everything is either more historical or enhances gameplay http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

BTW I've discussed with Wes about the ArabInfantry deadpage coord error that MTW1.1 players had with MedMod 1.85, and we were able to fix it, he'll post soon a corrected verion. Rejoice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I've started a Russian High Era game, in a few years I managed to buy a lot of neighboring rebel provinces from Finland to Khazar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Bribery is very cheap for Rebs, you got not only the province but also sizeable armies for just a few bucks more than the troop costs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Apart from that my only big war was against Danes : we were allied, and those b*st*rds came to help me retaking Novgorod - that a paltry 2 units Reb army took when I left only 1 unit in garrison http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif - and when we won decided to keep it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I bashed them out, then they went to Livonia and continued to attack (created rebellions also), so I pushed them to Lithuania, then slaughtered the remains - their King was in the lot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
So now it's 1220, Russia is going from Finland to Lithuania and Khazar, economy is OK but funds are low with all those bribes I've paid...
Then I just realized that the GH is due in a few years http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif What to do ???
I suppose I'll face 25 to 30k Mongols - I'm at Normal or Diff level, don't remember ... - and my army is not very big - maybe 2,000 -, spread out in my 12 provinces, my previous king just died (of illness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif ) and the new one only has 5 stars http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
I suppose they will cut through my provinces very easily and even take them all
My only ideas are :
- Create myself some Rebellion in Khazar (no governor, V High taxes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ), so there will be a 3,000-sized pack of peasants to absorb the initial shock;
- Scrap some buildings to buy all the mercs I can,complement the merc army with a good leader, 4-5 Boyars units, and head for the Khan

Could this work ? What can I do else ? Bribe the Mongols http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif - I suppose they'll be too costly ?
Thanks

[DocMoriartty]

Boyars are going to be very messy spots on the ground if they mix it up with Golden Horde Heavy Cavalry.

Your best bet is to build as much as possible on the western most edge of your Kingdom in hopes of using it as a launching point for a counter offensive.

[KukriKhan]

Hi Pdifolco & welcome to the .Org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Glad you're having a good time with MTW & are already familiar with our other forums. Post a few more times & you'll be free to roam at will.

I like your idea of deliberately creating mass rebellion in Khazar (you might consider doing the same in Volga) to absorb the initial shock of the GH.

[ShadesPanther]

Kiev is a very good counter offensive province as the lovely River stops most troops. Just have a few good spear units to hold them off and hope to kill alot of them.
Its a pity you dont have VI as Russia and the people of Novgorod get some very nice units like Rus spermen and Druzhina cav.

EDIT: also Sweden is a nice money earner with trade but hat cant be done now

[Cazbol]

Your 2,000 troops have a snowball's chance in hell in a war against the Mongols. Do as suggested and evacuate Khazar and Volga-Bulgaria. The rebel peasants probably won't do any damage against the Mongols and just flee, but you'll avoid starting a war with the Mongols right from the start. Have an emissary in Khazar to offer an alliance to the Khan the moment he arrives and then hope they'll turn their attention elsewhere.

[Shahed]

Welcome Aboard.

Is there a chance you could upload a zip of the save game, that would make for easier strategy making. Basically you need militia sargents, halberdiers, missile units and spears. I think you are screwed if you are around 1220, you do not have enough time to rebuild your forces. You may as well withdraw from the future GH provinces, and hope they turn their attention to the Middle East.

Please post the save game zip. Sounds like a challenge which should be fun to play.

[Pdifolco]

Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ July 21 2003,17:33)]Your 2,000 troops have a snowball's chance in hell in a war against the Mongols. Do as suggested and evacuate Khazar and Volga-Bulgaria. The rebel peasants probably won't do any damage against the Mongols and just flee, but you'll avoid starting a war with the Mongols right from the start. Have an emissary in Khazar to offer an alliance to the Khan the moment he arrives and then hope they'll turn their attention elsewhere.
Cazbol,
That's a great idea I didn't have, just let them setup in the steppes (poor provinces anyway, I took them to prevent Byz from doing the same http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) and get peace asap
I wonder why they should accept, but heck, if it works http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
And how do you veterans actually repel them ? Build economy then forces until you have enough to confront them ? Indeed it shouldn't be that hard if game is started in Early period, in High it's more of a challenge...
Do you also know if the Mongols have some pattern for invading ? Where do they go usually ?

ShadesPanther
I'll try to hold in Kiev as per your advice, that's my main revenue source cause I've built port and ships there, so I have 5-600 Trade revenue (with just basic Trading post, upgrading &#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.
Sweden will be takeable as soon as Shipwright in Novgorod is operational and enough ships will havez been built to beat the Damned Danes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

DocMoriarty
I didn't realize Hvy Mongol Cav were so superior to Boyars... too bad.. Thanks for the tip

[The_Emperor]

Bridge defence would be the way to defeat the Mongols, but also bear in mind that most of their units are quite disciplined and are not effected as much by the death of their general.

Your best bet is to force the enemy to attack the bridge and have a lot of spearmen, archers and Boyars waiting

If you face off against them In Khazar, then its almost certain death. You'll face off aginst 30K of troops consisting mainly of heavy cavalry on the open plains... The best terrain for the Mongols.

[Pdifolco]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ July 21 2003,18:09)]Welcome Aboard.

Is there a chance you could upload a zip of the save game, that would make for easier strategy making. Basically you need militia sargents, halberdiers, missile units and spears. I think you are screwed if you are around 1220, you do not have enough time to rebuild your forces. You may as well withdraw from the future GH provinces, and hope they turn their attention to the Middle East.

Please post the save game zip. Sounds like a challenge which should be fun to play.
Hum, with game starting in 1200 and 5 paltry starting provinces of which only 3 were decent (Muscovy, Novgorod and Kiev) I don't see how I could have prepared much better, only to build Boyars it takes at least 10 years to improve the provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
So I'll let them the steppes provinces and try to make peace and/or block them as long as possible in Kiev
We'll see ...
I'll post saves when things will start to heat

[Shahed]

Sorry I falied to note you started in High period. I thought everyone starts in Early like me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Crash]

You may want to consider using guerilla warfare against the GH, since everyone has agreed that you won't have time to build a force to fight them head-on. Do Not abandon your steppe provinces, the rebel peasant units will not slow down the Mongols at all. What you want to have are Loyalist rebellions that will produce much better troops. Here is a technique that I have successfully against the GH before:

1. Leave a minimum garrison force in Khazar and Volga-Bulgaria.
2. Just before the GH invades, destroy all improvements in those provinces, so you can get some cash out of them before the GH takes them over.
3. Prepare both provinces for rebellion by stationing some bishops in them to get the Catholic percentage as high as possible.
4. The turn before the GH moves in, flood both provinces with spies. Make sure any border forts are destroyed so that the Mongols can't use them against your spies.

What should happen are loyalist rebellions in Khazar and Volga Bulgaria as soon as the Mongol main armies move out of them. You will get some better than average troops that way, and they will be behind the Mongol main armies. In effect, you will be doing what the Russians have always done to defend their homeland - use their vast territory, scorched earth tactics, and guerilla warfare to buy themselves time to build up a counterattack and wear down the invaders.

[Mega Dux Bob]

What shows up on the Steps is bad enough how does everyone deal with that Sympathy Revolt in Armenia that dumps another 30K in your' lap? I tell you it is enough to make a Byz Emperor throw in the purple towel.

Also is it my imagination or in VI the GH get Ribualds (sp?)?

[The_Emperor]

In fact it might be worthwhile to leave an army in khazar for the sole reason of killing the Khan in the battle and then withdrawing...

If you do this right when they invade their mass of troops will suddenly become a mass of rebels

(30K of rebels in one province can in itself be a lot to deal with, but at least you can bribe them if you have the cash)

You only need watch out for any attempted re-emergence.

[Heraclius]

1220 eh? for now you're screwed m8. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif sorry to be harsh. evacuate your eastern provinces and start training militia sergeants, halberdiers and pavise arbalesters and crossbowmen plus light cav. offer an alliance to the mongol khan as well. he may delay in attacking you. but when he attacks you (and attack you he will) you should try and find a nice big hill, possibly with woods, put your spears out front and your pavs behind them, with light cav on the wings to chase away horse archers. if you're lucky you could beat them off, although with heavy casualties probably. sorry for the pessimistic predictions. good luck though

[Monk]

As the Russians i have found that a combonation of Boyars and halberdiers will stop the MH dead in their tracks. my advice to you is to evacuate your east provinces and begin consolidating your positions in Keiv, Moscuvy, and Novgorod (if they take those three provinces you will have no chance to launch a succesfull counter attack ). have atleast 3 units of halberdiers in each of those provinces (if u can afford it) and a good amount of spears. use ur King and Heir Boyars to strengthen your defences, and if fate be with you the GH will be preocupied in the south.

may the fate of your King be safe and your soldiers fight well :disapears back into the tavern:

[Pdifolco]

Thanks for all these advices, the nice thing is that I have at least 6 different strategies, now the question is : which to use ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Crash,
I suppose you meant Orthodox percentage, not Catholic, I'm playing Russian The idea is good, as the poor peasants rebels won't live long against GH
However I don't have many spies (only 1 province produces them), so it'll be difficult..

The_Emperor,
One of my ideas was indeed to do that : go for the Khan in battle in order to kill him, even if I lose the battle eventually...

Overall now I'm planning to abandon the Eastern provinces, getting cash in scrapping buildings, then consolidate in my core provinces, finally engage when my army would be ready, trying to get the Khan first... I can try to assassinate him also, but my crappy assassins will have 0.5% of success, well ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[KukriKhan]

I see your strategy is developing well. One last thing (OK 2):

1) your mindset; it is stunning when the GH show up, right on your doorstep. Just remember they ARE defeatable, eventually - mostly thru attrition and diversion. You're not as rich as the Byz, who make a better target for them. Find ways to encourage that diversion south (and west).

2) Opportunities: they may go for Byz, Poland & Hungary first, spawning rebellions in those respective provinces. Grab the cheap ones when you can. If all fails, and you can get Sweden before GH arrive, retreat there to consolidate (good income & easier to defend than the Russian homeland). Always good to have Plans B & C.

Have fun & good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Shahed]

Behold. Your plans are complete.

Save game ?

[pdoan8]

For me, I found that defeating the GH as they arrive is the best way because they won't have any province to retreat to so they will be gone if they are defeated. It will be very long battle (my longest was over 6 hrs). Also, defending against the GH is much easier than attacking their stronghold.

Build up good (size) armies in Khazar and Volga_Bulgaria before the GH arrive. My core army would be: 4-5 Viking, 4-5 Halbardiers (or some Militia Sergeant), 2-3 Steppe Cav or Boyars, 4 Archers, The General (Boyar). This is the starting line up. The reserve: Same army but replace the archers by Boyars and other Cav. Then I may have some more extra Viking, MS, Halb to bring the total to around 2,500 to 3,000. Note that I don't use any regular spearmen. 2 best ubits are Viking and Halbardier.

The GH will likely start the battle with mostly Cav. So use Halb to hold the front to protect the archer from being charge. Charge the GH Cav if they are close enough. Use Viking, MS and Halb to kill the Cav with Halb taking the frontal and Vik/MS taking the flanks. Boyars and Steppe Cav taking the routing units. If the enemy units are routing, let them rout. There is no need for chasing them out of the map. Reserve the army strenght and stay organize for the next wave. Stay close to the deploying zone so that the withdrawing and the reinforcement can happen quickly.

After the archer use up their ammo, withdraw them one at a time. I don't withdraw all at once since my army has lots of low morale troops (Halb, MS). Withdraw any unit that has 50% or less men left (but withdrawing one at a time). Bring in the reinforcement and shift gear.

Now, I should shift to a more aggressive phase. Move the whole army to the GH deploying zone. I would charge the GH reinforcement as they walk into the combat zone. Trike them first then let them rout. Give them no time for organize and building up strenght. At this phase, I usually have 6-8 Halb/MS in the front line, 2-4 Viking protecting the Halb rear to boost their morale. Boyars and Steppe Cav on the flanks.

My best performance against the GH: ~8,000 kills (including the Khan), ~2,000 capture, suffered ~300 lost. Army strenght: GH ~30,000/PoN ~2,500. A 6+ hrs battle.

Key units and advantage:
Considering the advantage that I can exploit: AP weapon against GH high armour (MW=4, MHC=8) and High armour units (Halb=5, Boyar=6, Viking=4, MS=3) against the GH non AP missile and weapons. Anti-cav troops vs lots of cav.

Rating: Charge - Attack (include AP bonus if applicable) - Defend - Morale.

Viking vs Mongol Warrior:
Vik: 3 - 5 - 2 - 4 vs MW: 2 - 3 - 2 - 2

Viking vs Mongol HC:
Vik: 3 - 7 - 2 - 4 vs MHC: 6 - 3 - 7 - 8

Viking vs Mongol HA:
Vik: 3 - 4.5 - 2 - 4 vs MHA: 2 - 3 - 1 - 4

Boyar vs MHC: DO NOT frontal charge MHC
Boyar: 4 - 3 - 6 - 6 vs MHC: 6 - 3 - 7 - 8

Boyar vs MHA: should be able to beat them in both melee and skirmish
Boyar: 4 - 3 - 6 - 6 vs MHA: 2 - 3 - 1 - 4

Halbardier vs Mongol Warrior:
Halb: 2 - 3 - 6 - 0 vs MW: 2 - 3 - 2 - 2

Halbardier vs Mongol HC: (+3 att, +1 def for Halb)
Halb: 2 - 8 - 7 - 0 vs MHC: 6 - 3 - 7 - 8

Halbardier vs Mongol HA: (+3 att, +1 def for Halb)
Halb: 2 - 5.5 - 7 - 0 vs MHA: 2 - 3 - 1 - 4

MS: with +1 att and -3 def from Halb stats.

[HopAlongBunny]

First line of defence? Offer alliance. Second line of defence: marry one of your daughters to the Khan. If neither of those work I usually retreat north; if all else fails hold on to Sweden-nice cash, safe if you have boats, iron(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif; rebuild and ride it out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Shahed]

Check out this Related thread (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=9134;)

[Pdifolco]

Belated followup - I don't have much time to play, and only got some over the wekend

Well, from 1222 to 1203 I prepared for the GH :
* Abandoned Khazar, a 3,000 strong bunch of peasants emerged
* Build a bigger army, near 5,000 I think, to guard my core provinces

Then the GH showed up (in 1230 as usual http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) : they got 20 full armies of 640-800 (I use standard-sized units), but they invaded 4 provinces simultaneously (I didn't know that, I thought they all came in Khazar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif ).
So they also invaded Volga and 2 (Byz-owned) southern provinces in Middle East. The Khazar peasants did not even scratch them it seems

So I quickly abandoned Volga, avoided war this way, and had a big breath of relief when they turned South, attacked Armenia-s, Syria, Arabia, bashing the Turks (who were eliminated)
I didn't succeed yet to get alliance or marriage, the Khan always move and my agents don't catch up I've sent some assassins for him also, until now they failed, but I've still a 4-star one after him..
All attempts to rebellion with spies and clerics didn't get me anywhere, as soon as they appeared in a

[Shahed]

If you find that the battle is going too fast or that theere are too many units for you to control, peass p. Pause the game, catch up and the unpause. Rinse and repeat.

[Crash]

Be patient, the GH will get itself into trouble eventually. They don't build improvements, and they don't have any agents, so their provinces are ripe for rebellion. Continue to use your agents to help sow the seeds of rebellion and civil war in their provinces. The GH armies are numerous now, but they can't replace their losses.

Actually, I've never seen the GH do as well as they have in your game, so you probably have no choice but to do what you are doing, just hang back and build up and stay out of the way for now. Keep sending your emissaries and princesses to try for an alliance with Khan. Long term, however, you still have the advantage since the GH can't even replace their own units or build improvements. The GH can't be too aggressive, because even they will be spread too thin eventually.

So, be patient, and take your time and you will be able to defeat them as did the Russians in real life. It took them centuries to throw off the Mongol Yoke, but it won't take you nearly as long.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Pdifolco]

Seljuksinan,
I already pause from times to times (I'm a TBS player http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ), but sometimes in heat of battle I forgot to Good advice anyway..

Crash,
Maybe it's because I'm playing WesW mod, but I'm pretty sure GH DOES have agents : they kill my spies and assassins regularly, and I've caught some assassins with a message that they worked for GH It can be that GH was framed for someone else ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
But overall if they can't replace losses they will wear out eventually, however they have to fight a real big war to have substantial losses, for the moment they ate up 8 or 9 provinces without losing much people http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Anyway I want to play patient, my problem is that now I sinked my economy paying troops, once I can start to improve it again I will eventually best them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Crash]

The Mongols can use the buildings that already existed in the provinces they conquered. So it's possible that they are training spies and assassins because they cannot or do not train Mongol calvary or foot soldiers. I have never played the Mongols as a faction so I'm not sure if they don't replace their losses because they cannot or will not do it.

If the Mongols ever re-emerge as a faction, I noticed that they will build other kinds of units such as peasants, militia - whatever the province can build. I don't completely understand what Mongols can and cannot build. Maybe someone else can explain this.

[The_Emperor]

I have never seen the Mongols Build anything substantial, maybe the odd fort here and there, but never any core buildings.

I think all those troops that come in with the initial invasion just bankrupt them, and they can only make up their cash with a LOT of raiding and conquering.

If you can hold the line against the Horde they tend to lose their steam, and while they cannot replace their troops, you can always replace yours. So in the end it comes down to a war of attrition, and your better equipped for that

[Mega Dux Bob]

Quote[/b] (Crash @ July 28 2003,10:39)]If the Mongols ever re-emerge as a faction, I noticed that they will build other kinds of units such as peasants, militia - whatever the province can build. I don't completely understand what Mongols can and cannot build. Maybe someone else can explain this.
In the current game I am playing the GH replaced Novrgade in a six province revolt about twenty years after they were eleminated.They seem to be doing all the normal faction kind of things. Kind of alarming to see a whole facton go down like that.

[lancer63]

A couple of nights ago I had the longest and most disappointing battle ever since I was poisoned by the TW viper.
I was set on defeating the GH on arrival, so I built up a huge biz and merc army in Khazar, with a 6 star ex heir general and the best units I could muster.
When the GH appeared I even fed my army with some island garrisons, bringing my strenght to 5000 + men. The GH brought almost 9k.
I chose a small forrest as defensive base, and personally made a square turning the forrest into a death trap.
The mongols opened up with some arty, 2 MHCs incluiding their Khan and 10 MW units. The foot units were mincemeat for my pronoinai and steppe cav. and the 3 star Khan took just a little longer to kick the bucket.

But when 5.5 hours had passed, all my units exhausted or very tired, most my misiles spent and halfway through my reinforces reserve and the enemy didn't show signs of quiting. I mean, they were taking casualties by the dozens, I reckoned I must have killed and executed at least half their force, yet they still came.
At one moment I noticed the game began to lag and get choppy. So I stupidly minimized the game to check if any auto function of my machine had activated. That caused the game to crash and logically lost that battle info.
Even if I had saved the battle I wouldn't play it again. I hate reloading, so I began a new campaing as the biz.
Good part is I learned a lot about how the AI plays the GH. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[karmastray]

Quote[/b] (Pdifolco @ July 28 2003,04:37)]Indeed I'm rather unhappy with having such monster armies, in a game limited to 16 units per side it's senseless to have 10 times more as reinforcement http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
And I'm not that good when I have more than 10 units to play, so ...
I feel about the same as you, it's hard to control the action when reinforcements are pouring in from both sides (and continue to do so for hours) .. so, in one of my epic battles with the horde -- I was Spanish, controlled Armenia, Trebizond and those areas and the mongol smackdown appeared in Khazar and Georgia closer then I had anticipated in 1230 -- I held a hill, out in the open. I held my own against their first few waves (about an hour of game time) and even counter attacked with the cavalry which I had. Their general died right away, but it takes a hell of a lot for them to rout So, about an hour and a half in all of my army routed and I brought up the reinforcements and stuck 'em in the trees. They weren't really very good troops, mostly spearmen and urban militias and stuff like that but within the forest they were able to give as good as they got, plus they weren't as good targets to the mongol archers who can cause the death by one thousand cuts.

So, the moral of this story is: if you get sucked into a battle with the horde, run and hide in the trees

Also, I've got a 500 mhz processor and I followed all of the tips in the apothacary (or however you spell that) and, of course, it helped a lot -- I think setting a lot of the services to manual or even disabling helps a lot as well. However, if you want even more speed try disabling your sound card. I did, and even though I miss the war cries and all that, the framerate is WAY up there now Much easier to control (and no crashes in battle -- that sucks ).

[The_Emperor]

Of course if you have the battle time limit on, you only have to hold out for 30 Minutes before the Attacking Horde is defeated... Ok so its not quite as spectacular as defeating the complete horde by yourself, but it is useful if you don't have the time to play the full battle.

[Fortebraccio]

Hello everybody. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
When it comes to the Golden Horde, my policy is let somebody else be caught in their wake. Once, playing as the Hungarian, I tried to withstand their onslaught in Khazar. Having already become a ludicrously vast empire, an undisputed naval power, with a hundred thousand florins in my coffins, and an impressive permanent army, I thought I could arrange a really warm welcome to the Khan's lot. A solid army template composed by five Arbalesters and Sergeants, two Halberdiers, four veteran Szekely, with the best general available (around six or seven stars), and reserves basically made up of Arbalesters and Sergeants.
Usual last stand strategy, an half square clinging on the last inch of the map with the reinforce flag in its mid.
To put it briefly, without suffering exceedingly high casualties I managed to get rid of the Horde's Khan (usual killer bolt volley from the always valuable Arbalesters) and to route their first six waves (with the Szekeley hunting down the routed infantry and withdrawing at the first sign of those nasty GH counterattacks into the Arbalesters' field of fire). But, as their name would suggest, the Golden Horde can crush any opposition by sheer weight of numbers, even when their fake withdraw tactics does not work. Probably an entire forest-worth of arbalest bolts would not be enough to break their confidence. They simply kept coming, showering my army with arrows, charging my lines with their heavy cavalry...and no matter how many times I could repel them, no matter how many corpses my Halberdiers, Arbalesters and fierce Szekely could leave on the battlefield, this battle would never seem to come to an end. And given the 15000 men fielded by the Khan, I bitterly discovered that the time limit would not help me at all. After more than three hours of battle, with a growing headache, demotivated by something halfway between boredom and sheer dismay,I had to issue a general withdraw order, (after having unchivalrously executed more than 500 mongol prisoners) leaving Khazar to the Horde. Almost five thousand enemy casualties, countered by several hundred on my side.
Without a Khan to lead them, the Golden Horde became a 10.000 men rebellion stationed in Khazar (talk about disappointment, I hoped they would follow my retreating army to Kiev and engage in a hopeless bridge battle).
By 1232 a huge army of something like than 18.000 hungarians from all around Europe attacked Khazar (I think I resorted to a totally amphibious attack to circumvent the bridge)...I can sum up this immense, epic battle in a word. Auto-calc. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
So, what's the point? Sometimes the Horde makes its appearance in several provinces, sometimes it launches an en masse attack in Khazar. In either case, I think the best thing to do is kill the Khan wherever he shows up and clean the remains of the Horde before a new Mongol warlord comes to claim their allegiance.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Fortebraccio. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

After reading various posts about the GH (which I've yet to encountered), I waffle between remorse at playing with the timer on and missing out on the 3-5 hour battles, and happiness that I DO have the timer on. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif