I don't see how this game can be beat.

[kawligia]

Well I still find the game to be fun, but it gets really hard after a while.

THe beginning goes great. Ally with people on this border and expand the other border. Build up certain areas to pump out troops and others to bring in more cash...etc.

But later in the game when there are only 4 or 5 factions left in the game it gets really hard. First off everyone is allied with everyone else. It doesn't matter if you attack or are attacked, when the inevitable happens the entire MTW world will soon declare war on you. It is said that only a fool fights a war on two fronts...so how can you win a war that you must fight on EVERY possible front? It just can't be done. And then there's the reappearing factions the comeout of nowhere in hte heart of your empire and rampage through your lands.

I still find the game to be fun but it is a little frustrating. If anyone has any strategies to deal with this I'd love to hear them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[rasoforos]

well if it can't be done then i ve done the impossible for about 25+ times http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Total domination is not that hard. Yes at a point u ll have to fight everyone but dont forget that you ll have superior technology , generals and money by then. If your problem is financial ( as in most cases , since many people go to negative at the specific time where everyone attacks toy) then you can read some nice posts about the organisation of proper trade and the returns of investment from farms mines etc. Dont get dishearted , it can be done and it easy to be done. start by using an easy and prone to make a lot of money faction like the byzantines in early and u ll make it.

[kawligia]

Oh I've got lots of money. I've also got lots of armies. But when every country in the world throws everything they have at me those armies die off. Before I can get more built, one of them has broken through and begun pillaging my money making and unit producing lands.

[Demon of Light]

Alot depends on what faction is being used. Could you enlighten us?

[kawligia]

Well I've had this problem many times with different factions, particularly English, Italian, and Germans.

[clovenhoof]

kawligia,

Well, with enough money you should also have the most advanced buildings and in turn several full stacks of the latest available troops. You should be able to win. Keep building the MOST advanced troops and use them to conquer new lands while using the older troops to garrison them. Basic strategy helps to...I try to divide enemy territory up as much as possible when conquering a faction- if I am the HRE and France has most of western europe, scandanavia and britain, I would take every province from swabia on to the ocean in a straight line west- cutting the french empire into a northern half and a southern half with me in between half and depriving them of being able to easily manuever troops where needed. Then I'd conquer the provinces north of the line and after that the ones south of the line. Enough money means enough troops and enough troops with some basic strategy means victory- at least in my opinion. A nation can survive a war on several fronts if it is strong enough and its enemies weak enough. Large factions can be totaly crippled if not defeated in the space of a few turns provided you launch massive simultaneous attacks into each of the factions provinces that border yours. Always seek to further divide the enemy and isolate his provinces from one another. Well...thats my opinion, hope it helps. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

I find it usually helps to concentrate on one faction at a time. Have a decent defence force facing off against the ones you are ignoring then break the one you really want.

Knowing that this is coming, try to plan expansion to limit your borders. Its nice if you can defend say the entire northern part of your empire by holding Constantinople (and adjacent seas)

Guess that sums it up. Choke points and focus http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Assuming that you have money to spare (many times over) from trade.

Almost forgot. Depending on the situation, don't even defend against attacks. If you may lose some poor provinces by launching an attack that will take a thorn out of your paw, good riddance to them Not every province is worth fighting over, if you have something better to do atm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Duraz_asks]

it seems to me that u lack skill in battle not diplomacy.. well economic diplomacy

[Duraz_asks]

and anther thing apparently u need to think ahead like i do, i when attacking a faction look for a specific spot where it would be best to stop at. which is a spot easiest to defend (most offten a spot with less borders) also u apparently need to study ur attacks a little better.. in the sence of attacing factions who are already being attacked this will at least keep u 1 ally.. and heres another trick (only works on cathlics) if the pope is still around find a cathlic faction u want gone attack them or just get them to be at war with u, follow what the pope says and wait for the faction to attack u if they dont keep this harrasment up until they do, if succesful the pope will excom them and ull have more people on ur side http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Demon of Light]

Quote[/b] (Duraz_asks @ July 23 2003,23:33)]and heres another trick (only works on cathlics) if the pope is still around find a cathlic faction u want gone attack them or just get them to be at war with u, follow what the pope says and wait for the faction to attack u if they dont keep this harrasment up until they do, if succesful the pope will excom them and ull have more people on ur side http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
I can honestly say that I have never seen this happen in any of my games. After a Papal warning, I stay away like I'm told and find that my enemy does the same. Always.

[Degtyarev14.5]

kawligia,

I believe one of the keys to this game is in the positioning of your empire on a broad strategic level. Why do the English and the Egyptians tend to conquer the map? Because they begin on the borders. Provided they establish a navy, the English can not be invaded except via Flanders; the Egyptians can not be invaded from the south or the east at all. Also, in both of these cases these factions begin with the benefit of wealthy provinces.

As you gain power the AI likes to do silly things, and tends to gang up on you. As I see it, you need to position yourself strategically before you get to this point. It would be suicidal to play, for instance, as Hungary and to declare war on the Poles, then the Byzantines, then the Germans, etc., working outwards, because even though you are becoming the dominant power you are still vulnerable from every direction.

The Spaniards are also advantaged in this respect: provided they have at least four or five ships, you can invade only via Morocco or through Navarre / Aragon. The Spanish homelands are also quite rich.

I would suggest that you concentrate your efforts in one and only one direction until you work you way into a corner of the map (preferably NOT the north-east corner http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif), or into a stronghold-position like Iberia, Scandinavia, or maybe Sicily and Naples (this option requires maintaining a strong navy, as well as being able and ready to tolerate Papal ambitions). Take a few years to consolidate and develop, then the known world is your oyster http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Hope this helps,
A.

[Pdifolco]

Play a non-catholic faction that starts on a map edge (Russia, Turks, Egypt, even Byz - they are not on an edge but can easily grab the east..), and you won't have to bother with Pope stuff or being encircled
Beware the Horde though, according to the period you play http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Urban Legend]

Use autotax, it sets the tax to 120%, make sure it is able to. At that rate there won't be a faction remergence.

Plan troop producing provinces early.

[Aelwyn]

Keep your borders strong. With the HRE, keep a good army in your provinces bordered by another faction. In that way, if you can imagine what I'm saying, you can expand out almost in a circle (as much as the map provides) keeping your less useful troops in the center provinces, building up your farms and natural resources where its profitable, etc. Usually for me, if I can't recover the cost of the farm upgradein 10-15 years, I don't build it....thats just my preference though.

[sexyred]

Actually..... I've found the hardest part of beating this game is having time to play.

At one point during one of my early campaigns, I had to fight 4 different battles Each with decent sized armies, and each battle taking 30 mins to and hour to play.

Now that is a flaw. I mean seriously - When a battle takes 1 hour of real time to fight, how can I possibly finish a single turn where I have to fight more than one? I literally had to stop playing that campaign, and wait till a weekend so I could finish a single turn

[alkalineruxpin]

I prefer to play as the English faction, as with them it's relatively easy to control where your enemies will be coming from.

CAMPAIGN MAP STRATEGY

Maintain a strong fleet, and you don't have to worry about your northern provinces.

Slowly whittle down the French, or take them out blitzkrieg style, either of these strategies will hopefully avoid excommunication.

The Holy Roman Empire very rarely poses a significant threat, and in fact they will often help you (especially with France) but be careful to not let them extend their control past Lorraine, and NEVER into Flanders (unless you, as I have, change the sea borders to make it so land invasion of Wessex is impossible).

Keep a strong defensive army in Acquitaine and the province directly next to it. If practicable, take Navarre, this however is not necessary and can actually be retroactive if you do not have the resources to defend both it and Acquitaine. In the south, the Acquitaine is your lifeline.

For all intents and purposes, the Spanish will lack sufficient offensive clout to knock you out of there, regardless of whether or not they've annihilated the Almohads.

Your next conquest after France should be the Danes. You will likely get excommunicated at this point, but with Spain in check and the HRE hampered by habitual weakness, this shouldn't present too much of a problem.

Conquest of the Danes provides you with two things:

1) An alternate invasion route of the HRE, or Poland if you so desire (although that would be over-extending your boundaries, and exposing you to envelopment by upwards of 3 factions).

2) Contact with a non-catholic faction for further expansion, be it Novgorod (if they've survived), Russia, or the Byzantine Empire. This is key for Expansion, as the north of the baltic provides good trade and safe expansion (until the Mongols come along).

If your King is excommunicated and near death, declare war on the HRE immediately. Begin pushing into their territories, a few key victories will make the HRE dissolve into civil strife, and when your king dies you have a clean slate, a few lucrative provinces if not the destruction of the entire empire, and more importantly, a reason to go to war again with the HRE, as they will attack and attack and attack if they are still in existence. Eventually the pope will excommunicate them (they will attack regardless of papal sanction if they are in trouble), and you will have free reign to finish what your father started.

Remember to keep a strong defensive minded presence on your borders with Spain (or the Almohads, whoever rose from the ashes of that fracas). They'll likely throw army after army after you, but if you have longbows and a good defensive army, you can easily slaughter an army 3-6 times your size.

From here, you have the funds and armies to do what you wish.

BATTLE TACTICS

With the English, the key is to remember that Archers are your strong suit. You also get a strong anti-cavalry force later in the game, so outside of the occasional unit of Knights or Mounted Sergeants, a strong cavalry presence is not truly necessary.

Highland Clansmen, Gallowglasses, and Kerns should not be underestimated.

A good defensive strategy is the key to success as the English, even when fighting an offensive battle, you want to enter into it with a defensive attitude.

Kerns-----------------------
Spearmen--------------------
Highlanders/Glasses---------
Archers---------------------

Put the Kerns in the front, as shown above. Put them far to the front of your army (about a fifth of a mile or so) and have them on skirmish mode, so they move up the hill, turn and fire, up the hill, turn and fire and so on until the enemy is within arrow range.

At that time, pull your Kerns back behind your melee troops. When the enemy gets within 30 yards of your position or so, throw in the Highlanders or Gallowglasses. This will disrupt their already weakened advance, and could actually put them into headlong flight.

If they continue to come on, throw in the Kerns, as they have good charge statistics and decent melee abilities.

Finally, if all else fails, let your spearmen and archers finish the foe.

Pretty basic, and more effective against a cavalry weak enemy, but it works. Especially if you have longbows at your disposal.

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Welcome to the Org sexyred and alkalineruxpin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif I see both of you have been not been shy about joining the discussions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

I know exactly what you mean about having time to play red. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Oaty]

What I do is when losing territory is do strategic retreats to castles. What I do from the beginning once I get some good cash flow is every province is producing a building. You have either cash flow territories via either farm or trade or both. The next set of territories is my troop producing territories. Finally are those territories that dont give you too many benifits those aree the ones I upgrade the castle constantly. So I have a nice castle citadel or fortress. These are basically your last ditch effort territories. If it looks like theres a decent size force in the next territory that will win I put a few units in the castle right click on it and see how many years it will approximately last. 3 years or more usually provkes the A.I to assault it. I then immediately move all other troops 1 territory back. I don't put my worst units in there and I don't put my best in there but one's that stand a very good chance at doing very good damage on demorized troops that are reduced in size from your archer towers. Great place to put them low loyal generals and greedy governers. Forts, upgraded forts and regular keeps don't seem to be that great in causing casualties to the siegers. Upgraded keeps and above seem to be very good at making the enemy pay. Using this strategy I have never had to do strategic retreat for very long. In doing this you make the enemy take massive casualties while minimizing yours and also rebuilding the bulk of your main army. My favorite place to do this as long as have the desert and good desert troops is do castle retreats to there and have a field day on there heavily armored troops. Saved my butt twice once against the byzantines who owned from the edge of France to just a few territories away from the eastern desert terrain. I smashed most of there battle hardened warriors wich finally turned the tides in my favour. And I had to do it again to end the threat of the golden horde.

[Duraz_asks]

the only problems i have in beating this game is the pope and the pleague when 1350 or whatever hits im screwed so i usually beat it before 1350 cause if i dont i will not succeed and the pope is nothing more than an annoyance he should be shot stabbed trampled beheaded beaten and burned at the steak then used as fertilizer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Sam Adams]

As some people have mentioned the key to winning is strategic positioning in addition to sucsess on the battlefield.

Basically, as you conquer the world, you want to do so in the way that will present the fewest number of border provinces as possible. This allows you to concentrate your forces, makes your battles easier.

[Forward Observer]

Most all have given you some excellent advise, but never forget the 3 most important strategies to the Total War games which are---attack, attack, and attack.


Cheers

[Old Bald Guy]

Me thinks you have a common problem, grasshopper. You must have patience to win the game. My current game, I had a war with Denmark that lasted nearly forty years. Yep, it took that long to finish off his fleet of ships. By the time I finished 'em, I was almost 30k in the hole. I hadn't built a single unit in twenty years. But, I just waited it out, chased down the longboats, which isn't easy, then waited for another ten years until I was back in the black and able to start rebuilding my depleted armies. From approx. 1270 to 1340, I did not build a single unit nor improvement. Patience is the key.

Aside from that, why would you want to play a game that you know you'll win every time?

[kawligia]

Some good tips here. I was playing Spain and was doing pretty well. My only downfall was the rampant unrest that tied up all my armies. I got a little peeved and accepted the 60% victory.

I did some reading in the TOC section and found some causes of revolt that I didn't know about before. (This game did a horrible job at explaining the how and why of many things in it) Now that I know what the problem was I'm going to give it another shot.

I also think spain is my new favorite faction. They are filty rich, have lots of iron and in a great strategic position. Europe has LOTS of borders but as Spain by the time you go through Africa and Asia minor, you're an unstoppable war machine...that is unless your nation rots from the inside out like mine did last time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[jas]

Quote[/b] (Duraz_asks @ July 26 2003,01:38)]the only problems i have in beating this game is the pope
Yes, I find the pope to be a pain. I'm currently using a strategy which I saw on the boards quite a while ago but which noone seems to be using right now, so I think it bears repeating. I can't remember who first posted it, but its not mine and I am not trying to take credit for it. It goes as follows:

1. Once El Pope has expanded beyond Rome/Papal States, take one of them (or both) off him, plus one or more neighbouring provinces. Do not destroy the Papacy at this point Build up in their home provinces so that you have a huge fortress with all upgrades. You will need to maintain a strong standing army because they will constantly attempt to retake their core provinces.

2. Crush El Pope. Muhaha ..

3. At some point his Holiness will return, stronger than ever. The more troops you have, the more he will have. Do not attempt to defend at this point. Withdraw all your troops to a neighbouring province, except one or two units. Keep these to garrison the fortress.

4. The Pope is an impatient man, and will assault your fortress. Hopefully he will not succeed, but in any case he will take huge losses.

5. Counterattack from the neighbouring province the next turn. Bye bye Monsieur le Pope until next time ...

Rinse and repeat, as they say. It seems to be working so far

A quick tip for castle defence: I take one or two units of good solid infantry eg: halberdiers or foot knights to stay inside the castle, and a couple of units of light cavalry. If the enemy has artillery, it is often stationed away from their main force, and you can break out with the cavalry and conduct a quick raid, destroying the artillery if you are lucky. Then wander the cavalry all around the outside of the castle with the enemy trying to chase you down while your arrow towers whittle away at them. Once they're chopped down to size, counterattack and drive them off ..

Enjoy

[fartingbob]

thats a good statagy for castle defence and pope issues jas, i might try that. i find that with spin, if i slwly take all the southern lands until i go from spain to russia, i have alot of provones that have no nborders with other factions. this also means that i can slowly ork my way into europe from both sides, forces factions to either split there armies or abandon provonces. once i take most of gemany and italy and form a ring around the med sea, i can build up defences and armies for a bit, then do a large atack on france, rest of germany and all he other factions north of me. if i manage to control all of europe i move in on scandanavia nd england whch is often quick. then jut check there are no certain cathoic people ariving, and ive practically won.
my other tactic is to stat as england and expand ou slowly like alkalineruxpin mentioned.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Quote[/b] (sexyred @ July 24 2003,16:22)]Actually..... I've found the hardest part of beating this game is having time to play.

At one point during one of my early campaigns, I had to fight 4 different battles Each with decent sized armies, and each battle taking 30 mins to and hour to play.

Now that is a flaw. I mean seriously - When a battle takes 1 hour of real time to fight, how can I possibly finish a single turn where I have to fight more than one? I literally had to stop playing that campaign, and wait till a weekend so I could finish a single turn
I beleive this is taken care of in VI judging from screen shots pasted on this site (dr appletons reign in the email almohad campign, which is also a very nice read).


Re the original ppost - attack them but dont necessarily try to hang on to new territory. You get cash and screw up his infrastarcture. If the faction suffers a large number of defeats quickly they often collapse into civil war especially the HRE.

[kawligia]

I remember reading this Pope strategy somewhere on this site:

Kill the Pope. Then jack up taxes in Rome and the Papal States, destroy happiness buildings, and pull out all your forces. There will be a huge revolt and when it happens just let the rebels take the lands....and the Pope won't come back.

I can't vouch for this since I've never tried it, but even if he did come back, his forces would be crushed by the rebels and he couldn't rebuild...especially if you destroyed all the unit producing buildings. You could also destroy his broken army and do this all over again too.

[Nowake]

first, if you pull out all your forces, the revolt will be small in numbers.

second, the pope comes back whatever you do, with elite troops.

third, he can attack even in Naples even if not conquered before, so you would have to evacuate all central and southern Italy just in order to kill the Pope.


Not good, believe me, I tried it.

[vodkafire]

Quote[/b] (pr Fire @ July 28 2003,07:47)]first, if you pull out all your forces, the revolt will be small in numbers.

second, the pope comes back whatever you do, with elite troops.

third, he can attack even in Naples even if not conquered before, so you would have to evacuate all central and southern Italy just in order to kill the Pope.


Not good, believe me, I tried it.
Really? What if you're Muslim and convert the entire region to Islam? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (vodkafire @ July 28 2003,17:17)]
Quote[/b] (pr Fire @ July 28 2003,07:47)]first, if you pull out all your forces, the revolt will be small in numbers.

second, the pope comes back whatever you do, with elite troops.

third, he can attack even in Naples even if not conquered before, so you would have to evacuate all central and southern Italy just in order to kill the Pope.


Not good, believe me, I tried it.
Really? What if you're Muslim and convert the entire region to Islam? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
You can convert the whole area but the Pope will still come back for more... The key to defeating the Pope is to keep him alive but weak.

To attack his forces (possibly force him to retreat to the castle)and then withdraw, you know the typical Chevauch'ee Hundred Years War style.

he may scream for Crusades and stuff all the time and you may be hard pressed to defend against them, but you always have your Multiple Jihads to make up for any ground they take.

Besides make a few crusades fail and the faction that sent them will have a civil war for sure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ToranagaSama]

Is it me, or is the Pope more aggressive in VI?

In any event, the way to deal with the Pope is first, ally with him.

Second, simply bottle him up in his Papal States. That's It Leave him til the VERY last. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by taking the Papal states until the end.

The Pope has little resources with which to build threatening armies. In MTW, the Pope of little consequence whatsoever, just don't attack. In VI, he appears, so far, to be a bit more aggressive, so I repel his armies thereby whittling down, and with little resources has not ability to be of consequence.

Why do so many worry about the Pope? You all must be Catholic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Just think of the Pope as the Eight Ball, the last ball in

[Old Bald Guy]

I agree with ToranagaSama. The Pope cannot be beaten like other factions. He's gonna come back and in VI, he's much, much more militant. In my current GA campaign, he's taken most of eastern Europe and half of the Iberian peninsula. He's got boats in most of the Med. And he's attacked me, even after he's asked for peace. It's going to take the rest of the time to beat his miter back to Tuscany. (I've got everything else in the eastern half of the boot.)

The game can be beaten, everytime, but it does keep you wondering if this is gonna be the one you lose. I've only lost once, and that was when my king died at 56 with no heirs. (Wonder why I aggitated for a patch?)

OBG

[Fortebraccio]

A couple of strategies that I find most useful:

1) Jump start. Maximize your faction's potential by conquering key provinces as soon as the game starts. I played my first campaign as the Polish, and with a few years of daring conquest I managed to hold a foot on both the Baltic and Black Sea shores. Favour provinces rich with trading goods and positioned by the sea.

2) Take on the Rebels. Whenever you have the chance, teach those lordless scum obedience. Especially early in the game, it's the safest way to expand.

2) Build up a trading empire. Most of your chances to build a successful empire lie in the ability to make disgustingly high amount of money. Always build a port and the most advanced merchant building available in every seaside province with some trading goods. Estabilish trade routes as soon as you can and keep them from being disrupted by raids or storms.


3) Build up infrastructures. Don't neglect your provinces. Agricultural upgrades will contribute a lot to your income when your trade routes will be disrupted by war. Ensure each of your provinces has at least some basic unit-recruiting facility, especially those positioned by the sea. In times of need you will be happy to have the ability to rise an army from scratch almost everywhere.
And, last but not least, your provinces will be much more loyal if you keep upgrading them.


4) Gain domination over the sea. Three fleets in every sea zone of the map and your naval superiority will be assured in the long run. Sink your enemies' fleets without mercy and upgrade to Caravels as soon as you can. Naval superiority is a double boon: you will make a lot of money from trade and have your armies reach any seaside province in just one year.

5)Be peaceful. If you can't gain a worthy permanent advantage from it, don't wage war with other factions. You'll loose precious trade income and expose yourself to a number of risks. A crusade to Tripoli is not always the most rewarding thing to do.

6)Divide et Impera. There is a time when war is the only option. Whenever it is possible, try to cut off the enemy leader from the rest of his domain, encircle and corner him. This will often cause his faction to be ravaged by a civil war, as their generals' loyalty score will be severely damaged.

7)Preserve your heirs. My glorious campaign as the Hungarian would find an untimely end by year 1357, at the hand of...well, nobody. A 56 years old king and a 15 years old heir. How funny. So, it may sound stupid, but keep an eye over your dinasty.