Stupid Game Bug

[kawligia]

This has happend a couple times but it just really screwed me. Has this happend to any of you guys?

Right after I took Egypt, they counterattack the large provence directly to the west. I have two large and strong stacks so I don't need them both to defend Egypt. Naturally I send one of them to lift the seige.

Here's where the crazyness starts. Because the Egyptians tried to retake Egypt (only to retreat without fighting) my army wouldn't go west like I told them to. Instead they stuck around to defend Egypt. WTF??? I din't need or want them to do that. THREE, yes THREE times in a row this happend until my castle fell and I lost the provence to a seige I could have easily lifted.

That has to be a bug, otherwise you could just keep sending and retreating ONE single peasant and freeze all the armies in that provence for eternity.

[Demon of Light]

Not a bug but it is an unintended consequence of a game feature. What happens is that it is assumed that if you are being attacked in province A, you'll want to defend province A with the forces that you have placed there. If you moved an army away from province A, it is assumed that you'll want them to participate in the defense as well. Thus, the army stays. This is generally good as it avoids a potential problem where you move your big army into province B to fight the enemy's big army only to find that you miss each other as he attacks you at province A. You could miss each other a bunch of times theoretically were it not for the feature.

It would appear that you discovered something that the designers didn't consider. Sometimes the computer just keeps attacking the same province with a pathetically small army. It keeps going through its calculations oblivious to the army that is stationed in the province it attacks. Normally, this is just an annoyance. Look, the computer is being stupid again you sigh. In this case, the stupid computer habit combined with the feature resulted in something very interesting.

In short, not a bug. Just an unlucky convergence of two unlikely ingredients

[Pdifolco]

Hum,
The feature is broken anyway, as I often saw the case where you invade Province B from A only to see Province A enemy army getting into your Province B, now badly undefended..

But what I don't get in Kawligia's situation is how the attackers were able to retreat without combat in Egypt ? AFAIK if you attack a province you have to fight, only defender can withdraw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif . Am I wrong ?

[Demon of Light]

Ever see a message that says the Egyptians have decided they cannot win the battle and are retreating? That's the one he's talking about.

[Pdifolco]

Quote[/b] (Demon of Light @ July 24 2003,15:07)]Ever see a message that says the Egyptians have decided they cannot win the battle and are retreating? That's the one he's talking about.
Didn't saw it when they attacked, only when defending, as I said, maybe with me they're more confident http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I'm surprised by this feature anyway : it means that the comp undo some of your moves AFTER your turn in order to make your armies defend the province they started in ??
Never ever saw that...Maybe it's a VI-only feature ?

[KukriKhan]

I use the feature you're discussing all the time, as a 'feint' move. If I face the enemy across 3 provinces, I 'feint' a small force to his strongest army, and bring my strongest army to his weakest point. I intend to retreat that feinting force (using the call off the attack option) - using it only to force him to keep some of his units to defend against my fake attack, instead of reinforcing against my main attack 2 provinces away.

It's only fair that the AI can use it too.

[kawligia]

Then theoretically if a player has an impressivly stong military might but they are all in one provence....all you have to do is have one single solitary peasant to feign an attack every turn and the entire army will be locked in that provence forever, unable to move.

That's just not right. If you want to shift your forces you should be able to. You should at least have an option to recall your troops or continue with orders as planned. What if you had no intention of keeping the new provence B and only wanted to pillage it, weakening the enemy and you DID want to keep the original provence A that you spent time developing??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Pdifolco]

Quote[/b] (kawligia @ July 24 2003,18:45)]Then theoretically if a player has an impressivly stong military might but they are all in one provence....all you have to do is have one single solitary peasant to feign an attack every turn and the entire army will be locked in that provence forever, unable to move.

That's just not right. If you want to shift your forces you should be able to. You should at least have an option to recall your troops or continue with orders as planned. What if you had no intention of keeping the new provence B and only wanted to pillage it, weakening the enemy and you DID want to keep the original provence A that you spent time developing??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
Ok, that's a cheese tactic, but as you say it's available ONLY to player, cause you move first...
So I still don't understand your original post where you complained of the AI using the tactics http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif preventing you from attacking.
Well, I must be tired ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Red Harvest]

No, he's right. The AI can effectively prevent you from launching attacks by sending a unit or two into the province that you are sending a stack from. It can withdraw without combat and your expeditionary force will still stay at home to defend. At the least it should allow your force to complete its move *IF* the AI withdraws without taking the field. Really, before deciding on the battle, it should give us an option (dialog box) to send the stack on its way or to stay and defend. Taken to the extreme...if you had some gigantic stacks in a single province, the AI could send a single peasant unit at you every turn and prevent you from ever leaving home...

I need to take a closer look at the issue. Because it might also depend on what province the outside attack is coming from.

[DocMoriartty]

Is it really a flaw or a bug or a strategy?

The computer is sending out a small army several years in a row to intercept your army and force it to do battle. By doing this even if it loses it is able to keep you from reaching the seiged castle.

Sounds like a reasonable strategy to me and not really a flaw. In fact in a full MP capable MTW I would see this being used quite a bit by players who want to hold off another player long enough to seige a castle.

The solution of course is also obvious. Launch an army from somewhere else and have it land from the sea.

[kawligia]

There is no sense in recalling 1000 Feudal Knights, Sergants, and Men-at-Arms to fight off a rabble of less than three hundred peasants, when I already had ANOTHER 1000 Feudal Knights, Serants, and Men-at-Arms defending Egypt. That second stack would just be overkill...reinforcements I would never ever have to call in. That makes no sense.

[katar]

I use the feature you're discussing all the time, as a 'feint' move.

i find it really handy, if it looks like he is going to attack one of my provinces from several directions i will send some peasant units to attack him and stall his attack on me, just remember NOT to follow through and select call off attack

same as you, i will also feint towards several provinces at once with small units, tying his down defensively, while i overwhelm him in my real target province. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (Pdifolco @ July 24 2003,11:22)]Ok, that's a cheese tactic
The game is MADE of cheese http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kawligia]

I can't believe you guys think that is a legitimate tactic. Why would 1000 men abandon thier homes to enemy hands only to help another 1000 men fight off a few hundred puny hobos they could eat for breakfast by themselves?

It has to be an oversight on the part of the programmers.

[neogerry]

in my game as the english i owned from granada to poland i was figthing the hungarians at wallachia and they retreated to the castle then i moved 5 stacks of my forces to figth 7 satcks of the egyptian army in bulgaria then i end that turn and i see that the egyptians have sent 6 stacks from bulgaria to wallachia of course i abandon the province as i only have 1 stack there and the next then i get this message from bulgaria: the egyptians have degided they cannot win the battle and are retreating and i saw this mesage: you have captured a number of rebels 5226 men.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif i never saw those egyptians armys again what the hell? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Mithrandir]

Quote[/b] (KukriKhan @ July 24 2003,08:42)]I use the feature you're discussing all the time, as a 'feint' move. If I face the enemy across 3 provinces, I 'feint' a small force to his strongest army, and bring my strongest army to his weakest point. I intend to retreat that feinting force (using the call off the attack option) - using it only to force him to keep some of his units to defend against my fake attack, instead of reinforcing against my main attack 2 provinces away.

It's only fair that the AI can use it too.
It gives your general a cowardly vice.