Formation Woes

[kawligia]

I've been running into a big problem on the battlefield lately...and that's keeping troops in formation when they march in a non-straight line.

Example:

I'll begin the battle with my troops in formation like so:


= = = = =

But the defense will deploy at an angle which would make the battlefield look like this:


//
//
//
//

= = = = =

This sets me up for the flanking of the century. But there is no way to align and face the opponent while staying in the selected formation. What I need here is to have the left-most flank stay put and the rest to forward and left to make a straight line facing the enemy. The only way to do that is to select the entire army, click and drag where I want the units to go, which will move them out of formation. The only other option is to move them one by one which would take forever.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to accomplish this that I just haven't been able to figure out yet?

Thanks in advance for answering yet another one of my questions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[zipnar]

group your formation

hold alt, and then rightclick on the center of the enemy formation

that should do it, unless i misunderstood the problem.

[Duraz_asks]

what i do is this

---- 4 pavs
------- 7 infantry
- - - - - 5 cav

notice: last 2 lines are od so i pick the space inbetween the middle 2 pavs and the middle of the middle infantry unit and cav and guess the middle in between them and the space inbetween the 2 center pavs and wala a fairly striaght movment

[clovenhoof]

kawligia, I have simaler problems while attacking and am constantly re-arranging my entire army. It would be nice to be able to define a single formation for your entire army- front-flanks-rear and any time you move the army it stays in formation with the front facing the enemy. Unfortunately I think you do have to CONSTANTLY rearrange the entire army, peice by peice, every time you move it in order to keep the same formation relative to the position of the enemy.

If this were a really good battle simulation it would allow you to pre-define several formations for your entire army-formations which stay intact and maintain shape relative to the enemy position- and would allow you to switch between formations as you pleased, always keeping the defined front facing twords the enemy. Also, if this were a good sim, it would allow you to construct and save manuevers- pre-set combinations of whole-army movements and formations. That would be sweet, it is entirely possible and I don't see why it isn't a part of the game. Huge battles get really tiresom and tedious when you have to keep hitting pause to move each and every unit exactly where you want it when really you should be able to move the entire army into pre-selected formations and manuevers at the click of a button.

[kawligia]

Quote[/b] (clovenhoof @ July 24 2003,06:38)]If this were a really good battle simulation it would allow you to pre-define several formations for your entire army-formations which stay intact and maintain shape relative to the enemy position- and would allow you to switch between formations as you pleased, always keeping the defined front facing twords the enemy. Also, if this were a good sim, it would allow you to construct and save manuevers- pre-set combinations of whole-army movements and formations. That would be sweet, it is entirely possible and I don't see why it isn't a part of the game. Huge battles get really tiresom and tedious when you have to keep hitting pause to move each and every unit exactly where you want it when really you should be able to move the entire army into pre-selected formations and manuevers at the click of a button.
Some good ideas.

This IS a pretty good battle simulator with some key elements missing which doesn't allow it to be all it can be.

I hope RTW works on this. That game looks WAY to cool to drop the ball on this matter.

p.s. I guess the easiest (not neccesarily fastest) way to do this is to select the entire army, do the drag thing so they will be in the general area you want and be facing the right way, and then use the group formation commands how you please.

[HopAlongBunny]

I group my units. l flank inf, centre inf, r flank inf...etc. Rarely, I will move each unit seperately. Can be tedious but thats what the pause button is there for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Cheetah]

First, as zipnar said, if you group your entire army (alt+a, then g) then you can use alt+right clik to change the facing of your army, and it will do so keeping the relative positions of the units to each other.

Second, there are pre-defined army formations. Select your army (alt+a), start to draw it out (right click and drag) and while drawing push numbers from 1 to 9 and you will see the effect of the various formations. IMHO #5 and #6 are the most useful ones. This way you can quickly collect/regroup your army even in the heat of the battle/chase.

Third, you can change these pre-defined formations Just, I dont know how http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Have to find the appropriate thread http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But, the idea is that you can define any formation you want

[zipnar]

if you group your army and move it...it moves together, doesn't it?

[Cheetah]

yes, and all units move with the speed of the slowest unit.

[kawligia]

Quote[/b] (Cheetah @ July 24 2003,11:26)]yes, and all units move with the speed of the slowest unit.
Since when? My cavalry always leaves my infantry in the dust... unless the cavalry are behind the infantry and can't get around.

[Oaty]

1My cavalry will lead by a bit as long as they are group formation but will never leave my other units in the dust as long as they are grouped. The only problem I have with units leaving other units in the dust is when I use 2 or more groups so I just halt the fastest group evry so often.

1 key point that should be noted, just selecting all your units does not put your units in a group. Took me a bit of time to figure that out in Shogun. Why my units in a GROUP FORMATION would march so well, and when I selected them all they would just march in 1 big clusterf***. And what caused this was when the battle began I thought the formation they were already in looked great and didnt need any changing. Now what I do if I already like the formation they are in I select them all and group them right away and if I dont thats when I select all then select the group formation I would like them to be in,

[pdoan8]

If you group all units (all units icons are placed closer with a bar on top), then all units will move as a group. They will keep relative speed and formation with each other. I always take an extra step and use Alt + left click anyway.

If you select all of you units (Ctrl + a) and move them all at once (simple left click) without grouping them, they will move as individual unit. Units won't maintain formation. Faster units will leave slower units behind and all units will arrive at the destination in the same tiny spot. To avoid this, you can use Alt + left click. All units will keep their facing and formation as they move. However, units will still move at their own speed.

If you move multiple groups, units within the same group will move as a group. Each group will move as individual. So, Alt + left click will make all groups move as a whole bigger group.

As moving units into combat zone, grouping all units can make it easier as you can move them together and even rotate the whole army to face a new direction.

[kawligia]

Ok I tried it out with the group formations...close but no cigar.

From this:

(enemy)
//
//
// X (desired center of formation)
//
//



|| || || || || ||


I get this:

// \\
// \\
// \\
// \\
// \\

Here my guys are not quite lined up correctly and facing north north-west when they should be facing north west or west. Much better but it still leaves a lot to be desired. It is acheivable but will take a lot of extra time and space to move up and to the right, and then back around to the left. Time and space you may not have

[clovenhoof]

Thanks guys for the info I don't remember seeing any of that in the manual. It really is something that should be a part of the windows interface. I really really want to see how you predefine formations. I'm going to try this all out- thanks.

[Sam Adams]

Use the drag feature to line up your troops exactly wherever you want. Its alot easier than playing around with entire army formations.

[Old Bald Guy]

Group the formation, hold down the ALT key, and right-click in the direction you want the formation to face. If you hold down the right button, you can see how they would face when you release the button. You can do this with a group, or an entire army if click on the unit at one end, then hold the Shift key and click on the unit at the other end, which will highlight the entire stack.

Hope that's all clear.

I wondered how to use the number keys.

[Parmenio]

I use the group formations missile first 3 lines, foot first 3 lines and cavalry screen a lot.

A way to edit and create group formations would be a good addition to the game. English bow wedges and echelon attacks spring to mind.

[clovenhoof]

Just to report back...the advice you guys gave really works well and makes battle alot faster and more fun. What I did was at the begining of a battle, out the whole army in the formation I want, then select all and move them where I wanted. The front of the formation was always almost exactly facing forward in the direction the camera was aimed. To check ending positions I hit spacebar. The only problem I had was a forest. Moving an army of 4 units chiv foot knights, 2 feudal searg, three fuedal knights, 1 royal knight, 2 vikings and 5 arbalester in a very precise formation a few hundred yards at a time through a forest was pretty tough. By the time I got through the other side the whole thing was one big criss-crossed gaggle-f**k. I won that battle anyways, against both the egyptians and the golden horde. Seems the combo of chiv foot knights and arbalesters were too much for them, especialy with the calvary carving heavy swaths through their horde of mounter archers.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome aboard Parmenio. Below is my favourite formation:

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif 's make good flankers.

[SeveredSoul]

lol Greg http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Parmenio]

I must be a right http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif flanker then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif