Turcs = smelted butter?

[someone]

im playing first time as turc in hard. MTW v1.1

i thout i had to use saracen and in some occasion muwahid units as blockers while other units get around and attack enemy in the rear.

but the saracen cant stop light cavelery even. i tried to stop a saharan cav. they had v2 and my saracen v3 and they got slaughterd.

i used the heavy cav kwazim (dont know how its spelled) attacking gallow-somthing (irish swords men) in back after they got hold by saracen only had 55% of that cav unit left.

theres many more, its soon time for the golden hord to enter the war and its me who hold kazaar. My question for you is:

what can i use to stop the horde? i can build janisary units yet.

[Portuguese Rebel]

v2 saharan cavalry slaughtering saracens v3 head on?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I would pay to see this http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Did you check the generals? Sometimes it can be the generals fault and not the unit. Did your general had bad vices? Did the enemy general had 8 star? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

In normal conditions there is no way saharan cavlary can stand against saracens, even taking in account the random factors. If it was some kind of heavy cavlary... even so, the saracens are equivalent to the Chiv seargents. Here are the stats:

Saharan cavalry

Charge 4
Attack 2
Defense 1
Armour 3
Morale 0

Saracen

Charge 5
Attack -1 (0 vs cavalry)
Defense 5 (6 vs cavalry)
Armour 3
Morale 0

I think this are the right stats, since i have these figures in my mind. If they are not, they are not very far off. As you can see, there is no way that a v2 saharan cav can stand to a v3 saracen. And don't forget that the saracens are 100 units, and the saharan are 40 units.

I don't know what is the problem but my money will go on your general having bad morale affecting vices wich will make the saracens run, since they have low morale.

[Darkchampion]

If you have trouble with your saracens routing (ie your general isnt that great) then build mwahid foot soldiers instead. You may only get 60 but their morale is better so they won't run easily even under a crappy general.

Generally tho when I play the turks most of my army is cavalry/cavalry archers until I start building janissary heavy infantry.

[Crash]

I prefer Muwahid also, for morale reasons. Saracen tend to rout sooner than the Muwahid, but they should slaughter Saharan calvary under normal circumstances. Were the Saracens facing the calvary, and in Hold position? High morale, high valour Saharan calvary can rout Saracens if they hit them in the flank or the rear.

As the Egyptian faction, the Muwahid were the backbone of my armies. I won a Normal/Domination campaign game fairly quickly with them.

[Gregoshi]

Greetings Darkchampion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Welcome to the Entrance Hall

BTW, I'm a crappy general. I can get any warriors to run. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[RollingWave]

Muhawid is generally better for the Turks... the Saracen probably would be best if the Almos gotten them but alas they don't (Saracen back up by AUM... talk about muslim style heavy infantry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif )

Muhawid also RUNS significantly faster than the Saracen, infact I'm pretty nothing else on foot runs faster than they do (though quiet a few runs at the same speed) I think they are the very few spearmen that have fast for speed though.. most have normal, this speed advantage is great for your turkish army which will have to heavily rely on manuverability.....

My suggestion though... if you REALLY need heavy fast fire power your best bet is to practice how to use the naphta throwers... those buggers can blow your king into shred by accident but they are also capable of killing 50 enemy in 3 second.... that kind of casualty usually sends all but the best moral troops screaming from their mommies... (and if they don't they don't have many left to acturally win the fight anyway:P ) learning to use the skrimishing type of units is essential for most non catholic factions (and also essential if your playing spanish)

[el_slapper]

Good to know. With my brand new PC(2,6, GeForce 5200), I'm trying the lone faction I never played with : the turks. I've built a mix of Saracen/Muwahid, but for the price, Muwahid seem better. Thanks you all to confirm that first impression.

& I'll try naphtamen. sounds cool.

[someone]

the gen had a v&v that gave -2 in morale but also a +2 in morale. now after the battle he got doubtful currage -6 in morale.

and if the enemy had a 8 star gen the saharan would had at least 4V, but the gen was only 3 star with no bad or good v&v

latest thing i got irritated about was when the spanish send in 200 peasents v1, all i had was a kwarizim cav v3 (spelling?) so i send them in thinking, that all other heavy cav i used before have been able defeating peasants with almost no loss at all. even once i had a saracen unit fending of 1100 peasants (before patch) and won. but these kwaz... was all dead after they only killed around 50 peasants. and that time i had a 6 star gen with only good v&v.

i guess its my game that is weird http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[A.Saturnus]

I prefer Saracens over Muwahid for the Turks. Muwahid are good in desert but Saracens usually can stop almost everything for a while. In early the Turks just have no other good armoured inf. Their problem however is morale. So use them with generals that have good V&Vs.

In hard or expert you can get strange battle results sometimes.

[vodkafire]

Saracens are definitely better, they are basically Chivalric Sergeants(exact same stats)w/ less building reqs. I have no idea why yours routed, but mines regularly stop chivalric knights.

[RollingWave]

Saracen have much lower moral than the Muhawid that's why ... (0vs4) I agree they are better for the spearmen's role as cav stopper as long as their moral holds... teh Muhawid also gets a really high charge and better attack than teh saracen (though less armor and much less defesne)

So you have to take all these into account and use them differently.... Muhawid are acturally better charging downhill at the cavs rather than wait for them to come like most spearmen units... that's why I think they are better for the turks.. it follows their mobility style fighting better than the slow saracen.... they also as meantioned run faster and charge faster... making them able to catch most slow footed routers (though I guess you don't erally need any more rout catcher as teh turks:P however when I did teh almos they were a nice complement as I only tend to have 1 group of saharan cav)

[Portuguese Rebel]

Persian cavalry getting owned by peasants http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

That suks, i can't imagine why would this happen, something weird is going on...

[DemonArchangel]

Of course something weird's been going on, it always has... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Were you in the desert with tired saracens?

I dont know what the stats are for khwarizm but I have seen them beat kataprats. Gallowglasses can be quite nasty though (like vikings and highlanders), not sure about the peasants though - again were you fighting in the desert? Kwarizm are heavily armoured.

[someone]

the fight with saracens was in desert but they was not tired, they still had 3 bars in fatigue

and the fight against the gallowglasses was in ireland. and the khawarizims was as fresh as possible, even if they where tired they should slice and dice those gallowglasses, i mean they came from behind and the swordsmen was already busy with saracens units.

later in my campain ive seen those heavy cav hackin orderfoot soldiers to pieces, head on.

anyway, this campain with the turcs been realy weird, all been ups and down. this will probably be my last campain with turcs.

even the JHI have been bad, they were running after some routing peasants, in some way the peasants killed 10 of them after they routed but couldnt kill any of them while fighting against them. and no they did not rout thru my JHI.