How to make Byzantium dying faction?

[-Isapostolos-]

Lately I have developed a particular intrest for byzantium, so I like to create some historical accuracy in my MTW games. Sadly, in MTW (early era) it looks like Manzikert never happened, and the Empire is still in full control of Asia minor. So what I did was give the Turks all of Asia minor with startpos files. Thus Byzantium only had Bulgaria, Greece, Constantinople and the isle as starting terratories. And yet I still managed to reclaim the Roman Empire in less then a hundred years...

So I ask you, what should I change to depict the weakness of the Empire at the start of the game. I have some things in mind, but I'm not sure if they are\ feasable/historical/possible.

-One unit per province
-Al units with valour below zero
-No fleet
-Giving the Turkish a massive horde

Any ideas are welcome and so are comments on my own.

Thanks

[Galestrum]

you can try my mod when it comes out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

im still workin on the how to make it tough concept, its comin along good, but in all honesty, i can pretty much become unstoppable with any faction in 100 years hehe, i blame the AI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

try playing without the Byz Inf, thats their main strength in the game

[vodkafire]

Mod it so that Kataphractoi cannot be produced in late, which would be realistic, imo, as there were virtually no more Katapharctoi after Manzikert.

[-Isapostolos-]

And what will you change in your mod my I ask?

I had another Idea BTW. What about removing all level 2 buildings and thus giving the empire crappy troops. The only way the might get reasonable troops would be through mercs...

Only one prob. I don't know how to disallow those buildings to the byzantines only.

p.s what did you think of my other ideas?

[DemonArchangel]

Nah, you should be able to let the byzantines recover and hand the turks their severed genitalia on golden platters. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[TheSilverKnight]

1. Give the Byzantines less provinces.
2. Give the Turks all the provinces from Anatolia and Trebizond to Syria and Arabia.
3. Make the Byzantines army numbers weaker.
4. That's all I can think of.
5. I need to go play MTW: VI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif *insomniac*

[-Isapostolos-]

Demon: As much as I like that, I prefer to have some kind of a challenge http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

The Silver Knight:

1. Read my first post, did it, didn't help
2. Have done that aswell
3. You mean in the unit files? I like that idea, but I don't know where I could change that
4. Alright http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
5. Have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[rasoforos]

isapostolos r u greek?

[Oaty]

Why not make a certain percentage of your army mercenaries

Basically you can only buy them when they volounteer, high upkeep, very disloyal and would cause an inconsistent flow of troops for your army.

Considering the game says mercanaries were a big percentage of the byzantine army it would make it tougher and historically accurate.

Or let the byzantine start with the troops they normally do but change them to mercanaries as the high upkeep from the beginning will probably be enough hinderance to your economy that would make them much harder to play

[-Isapostolos-]

Rasoforos: No, i'm not Greek, I just developed a high intrest for byzantium. I recently bought several books about byzantium and I'm reading them by the day.

[-Isapostolos-]

Oaty: I like your ideas oaty, but who could you change the byzantine merc index?

[RollingWave]

Removing the kats is a good start.... like other's have meantioned they didn't exist after Mezinkert (or at least in the way it exists in the game).... lowering average general's ability and espically loyalty also reflects the real weakness of the byz more... (unstable politics)

[-Isapostolos-]

I like that idea, but how should I change it?

And what should I use instead as a royal guard unit. Varangians? Pronoai? Maybe even just Byzantine Lancers?

Could someone please answer the modding questions in my previous posts?

[Mechstra]

Get the GnomeEditor from the Org's downloads; this will allow you to alter the buildings and units to make, for example, their numbers smaller, and to disallow certain buildings for the Byzantines.

[DemonArchangel]

Do as I do and use the Varangian Guard as the Royal Unit. Makes sense considering they're the bodyguards of the byzantine emperor.

[vodkafire]

Too bad the Varangians in the game are not weaker than the Kats, but sometimes stronger

[-Isapostolos-]

Thanks Mechstra that helped.

Nah having varangians as royal guard seems a bit to strong. Maybe if I made their unit strength smaller it should be more fair.

[LiamStack]

Give them less provinces by editing the Stratpos.txt files and have them starting with less troops, but if you wish to keep it historically acurate you must still keep Constantinople strong, at least the castle anyway, cause as I'm sure you know the Turks lost thousands of men when they eventually sacked the city and that was only due to the Byzantines not keeping guard on a nearby port. I would take the Vangerian guard (spelling&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif down a peg or two as they are quite possibly the best infantry in the game, also I would have them start with less money as well as this will stop them producing troops. But you will find that sometimes certain factions are stronger in games you play and sometimes they die out it depends and that is what makes the game so amazing, but if like me you want accuracy in your game I would just tweek about, feel free to post here with any questions in regards to how to make these changes and I shall post back with help. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[-Isapostolos-]

Quote[/b] (LiamStack @ Aug. 01 2003,07:43)]Give them less provinces by editing the Stratpos.txt files and have them starting with less troops, but if you wish to keep it historically acurate you must still keep Constantinople strong, at least the castle anyway, cause as I'm sure you know the Turks lost thousands of men when they eventually sacked the city and that was only due to the Byzantines not keeping guard on a nearby port. I would take the Vangerian guard (spelling&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif down a peg or two as they are quite possibly the best infantry in the game, also I would have them start with less money as well as this will stop them producing troops. But you will find that sometimes certain factions are stronger in games you play and sometimes they die out it depends and that is what makes the game so amazing, but if like me you want accuracy in your game I would just tweek about, feel free to post here with any questions in regards to how to make these changes and I shall post back with help. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Well as you can see, I prefer to have historical accuracy, otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Anyway, I won't be at my own computer for a day or 2, but in the meantime, you might want to help so when I get home I
can get started ASAP.

The main things I want to do in the early period are the following in which you might want to help me:

-Adding a Cuman (Barbarian) faction which should be somewhat similar to the golden horde. The Patzinaks had caused the empire alot of trouble during the start of the reign of Alexius. Alexius managed to enlist another barbarian tribe to fight for him, the Cumans, and together with them, Alexius nearly anhilated the Patzinak people. Alexius cunningly offered the surviving Patzinaks to join his army, and thus his army was bolstered with somewhat loyal troops.
However the Cumans had moved south into the former Patzinak lands and they then started raiding Imperial terretory just as the Patzinaks had done before.
I think two things can be done with this history:

* You can add Patzinak units to the Byzantine unit list. Currently I have in mind using enchanced Steppe cavalry and slav warriors to represent them. However there should be high building requirments (signifying their rarity) and they should have high maintance costs. In return the byz player should get medicore assault troops (not to strong since we want the Byzantines weak, not ultra strong as they are now.

* Adding a barbarian (pagan) faction occupuing Moldavia, Wallachia and Carpathia, signifying the Cuman faction. They should be much similair to the GH, using mainly slav warriors, slav javelin men, Steppe cav, Heavy steppe cav, Golden Horde horse archers.


- Accept for Alexius(emperor) and John Comnenus(heir), all other members of the Royal family shouldn't get the ridiculous high command values. Even Alexius and John shouldn't get higher command values then 5.


- All unique Byzantine units accept Varangians, Trebizond archers and Pronaia Allegion should be made mercenary to signify the shortage of men after manzikert. The pronoai Allgion and Varangians should both get lower unit sizes (40), with the Varangians being the the Royal guard units instead of Kataphraktoi. Thus the Empire will have few quality units and lots of merc ones.

*I hope a country's mercenary index can be customizable. If so all byzantine and some Turk units should be included in the merc index.


- The Turks should get more units at the start. If possible I'd like to add another Turkish faction, since the Turks were far from united in the early period. To compensate this they both should have big armies at the start. The new turkish faction would be the Danishmends. They had seperated themselves from the Sultanate of Iconium, and they had started harrasing both Byzantines and the Turks of Iconium. However they dissapeared as quickly as they had risen, but that doesn't mean they are unimportant.

*I think the Danishmend Turks should be more or less a replica of the current Turks unit wise, while holding the lands of Nicaea, Edessa and Rum. They also should get a port in Nicaea and a ship or two (Some Danishmend Emir had plans to capture Constantinople with quite a formidable fleet, but he had died before he could do so)

*The current Turks should get Trebizond, Anatolia, Armenia, Syria, Antioch and Arabia. The have no ships or ports


Some of these changes I know how to change, but with most of them I don't. So Liamstack I hope youll be able to help me. I hope to hear from you soon. Others are welcome to help aswel ofcourse.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[DemonArchangel]

Well, errr... varangians should have 60 men, and be the royal guard, just to make it a more unique playing experience.

Also, make make a special mercenary cavalry called frankish cavalry; relatively powerful, but low morale and astronomical upkeep costs.

And also make an unarmored spearman unit vallarnoi, the primary byzantine infantry after manzikert. And please get rid of those historically inaccurate byzantine infantry, unless you really want them.

[ShadesPanther]

Also your idea about the cumans and Danishmends. Thats in a mod made by grell called the First crusade and you can download it at the org downloads. Tis a good mod

[-Isapostolos-]

Demon: I know VG are currently 60 as unit size. But isn't it possible to lower the unit size even more, to say 40 or 30? Otherwise with a unit size of 60 they might get to strong, unless ofcourse that the unit size of RG units is consistent through all unit settings eg. normal, huge etc.

ShadesPanther: Can you give me some more info on the First Crusade mod? Are the Danishmends and the Cumans new factions or are other factions replaced and renamed? And how are the byzantines handled. I'm almost sure that the mod won't have all the changes I want for the byzantines, so can you enlighten me a bit about it?

[LiamStack]

Specify waht you want changing and I will change it all for you tommorow and post you the relevant files that you will need. I will need the province that you would like for the barbarians to start in, and the relevant names from history that you would like for their leader to have. Also, were they kings, prices...etc...let me know and I can put that in too. It'll only take me 10 mins to get all that done for you. Also what troop types would you like for them to have? Golden Horde troops? Let me know and I'll get that done for you.

Liam

[-Isapostolos-]

Quote[/b] (Isopostolos @ Aug. 01 2003,14:46)]Well as you can see, I prefer to have historical accuracy, otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

Anyway, I won't be at my own computer for a day or 2, but in the meantime, you might want to help so when I get home I
can get started ASAP.

The main things I want to do in the early period are the following in which you might want to help me:

-Adding a Cuman (Barbarian) faction which should be somewhat similar to the golden horde. The Patzinaks had caused the empire alot of trouble during the start of the reign of Alexius. Alexius managed to enlist another barbarian tribe to fight for him, the Cumans, and together with them, Alexius nearly anhilated the Patzinak people. Alexius cunningly offered the surviving Patzinaks to join his army, and thus his army was bolstered with somewhat loyal troops.
However the Cumans had moved south into the former Patzinak lands and they then started raiding Imperial terretory just as the Patzinaks had done before.
I think two things can be done with this history:

* You can add Patzinak units to the Byzantine unit list. Currently I have in mind using enchanced Steppe cavalry and slav warriors to represent them. However there should be high building requirments (signifying their rarity) and they should have high maintance costs. In return the byz player should get medicore assault troops (not to strong since we want the Byzantines weak, not ultra strong as they are now.

* Adding a barbarian (pagan) faction occupuing Moldavia, Wallachia and Carpathia, signifying the Cuman faction. They should be much similair to the GH, using mainly slav warriors, slav javelin men, Steppe cav, Heavy steppe cav, Golden Horde horse archers, Khazar Royal guard as Royal Guard.


- Accept for Alexius(emperor) and John Comnenus(heir), all other members of the Royal family shouldn't get the ridiculous high command values. Even Alexius and John shouldn't get higher command values then 5.


- All unique Byzantine units accept Varangians, Trebizond archers, Byzantine Lancers and Pronaia Allegion should be made mercenary to signify the shortage of men after manzikert. The pronoai Allgion and Varangians should both get lower unit sizes (40), with the Varangians being the the Royal guard units instead of Kataphraktoi. Thus the Empire will have few quality units and lots of merc ones.

*I hope a country's mercenary index can be customizable. If so all byzantine and some Turk units should be included in the merc index.


- The Turks should get more units at the start. If possible I'd like to add another Turkish faction, since the Turks were far from united in the early period. To compensate this they both should have big armies at the start. The new turkish faction would be the Danishmends. They had seperated themselves from the Sultanate of Iconium, and they had started harrasing both Byzantines and the Turks of Iconium. However they dissapeared as quickly as they had risen, but that doesn't mean they are unimportant.

*I think the Danishmend Turks should be more or less a replica of the current Turks unit wise, while holding the lands of Nicaea, Edessa and Rum. They also should get a port in Nicaea and a ship or two (Some Danishmend Emir had plans to capture Constantinople with quite a formidable fleet, but he had died before he could do so)

*The current Turks should get Trebizond, Anatolia, Armenia, Syria, Antioch and Arabia. The have no ships or ports


Some of these changes I know how to change, but with most of them I don't. So Liamstack I hope youll be able to help me. I hope to hear from you soon. Others are welcome to help aswel ofcourse.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
[B]In my previous post (above) are all the things that need be changed (units, startpos).[B]

As for the names of the Faction's Kings, heirs and commanders; For both the Danishmends and Cumans use Tukrish names. The Danishmends are Turkish and the Cumans Pagan.

Meanwhile I've come up with some other little things which might be cool to include, but they arn't essential:

-Cumans being able to use Pagan Shrines from VI
-Renaming the current Turkish to Seljuks.
-Frankish Knights as mercs (feudal knights) for the Byzantines
-Armenian Cav producable for Muslims and Byzantines in just Armenia and lesser armenia.


And if it's not to much to ask, could you make another Italian faction, the Geonese? They should get all current lands of Italy except for Venice, which is reserved for the Venice faction.
In my 'mod' I have venice as a seperate faction and the rest of Italy is Burgundian (I don't know how to make new factions). To make Venice a bit survivable, any army moving from a bordering province to venice will encouter a river. Also they get 4 galleys at the start.
If you could rename them from Italians to Venitians it would be even better.

[-Isapostolos-]

I seriously need help from Liamstack so im bumping, sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I can't pm yet and someone deleted my post which contained my email so here it goes again: seannemans@hotmail.com