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RollingWave
07-30-2003, 17:27
Ok I'm kinda bored so I'll write a analysis on the Almohads (based on early). feel free to comment and correct me...

Almohads are IMHO the easiet faction to win with in Early... they have great just about everything.

Postitioning: Just great, out of your starting 6 province only 2 border other factions, you have a long coast line which can be both a blessing and a bane depend on your controlling of the sea, speaking of the sea, you control the straits of gibratal so it gives you easy access to both the northern atlantic region and the med, make it very easy for you to expand good trade rout and or cut it off for your enemy. although you are a bit far from the hottest trading provinces (Viena and constaninople etc...)you still have quiet a few tradable province close to you.

Units: You start out with one of the best early line ups in early, the almohad milita are just the best overall infantry you can get in early (considering price, reliability, general power and accessability etc...) desert archers are better than the presto archers, berbers are not that impressive but it's as close to a cav archer as you can get and they get a nice anti calvary bonus... you also have the general muslim lineup which tend to be better than the cathloics during early. even more importantly out of your 6 starting province 4 of them give you bonus for ur unist, (berbers, aum, saharan and dhows) this is a huge bonus and will be very helpful all game long. Your unit lineup become weaker later into the game but if you should be able to rely on price effciency and effective counter and a powerful economy in general to balance that.

Economy: although your starting province are generally not too rich, they give acceptable income and you only have to maintain two border not to meantion your troops are generally cheap, both the Iberian and middle east which you will ahve to expand into are rich in trade or farming or both, you have a lot of access to coasts so builing up a trade rout shouldn't be too hard.

General guide: The Iberian are generally a better idea to expand into first while making peace with the egyptian, egyptian are alot more reliable than the Spanish and the iberain are also divided and generally weak early on, while the spanish can become a serious contender if you leave it alone.

The Almohad Urban milita are very very powerful early on .. (acturally they are very good all game long... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ) they should form the back bone of your army, both desert archers and berbers are decent range support and the saharan get the job done well enough as light cavs, note that you are probably one of the weakeast faction in terms of heavy calvary, you can genearlly only build Ghulams and Royal Ghulam body guards... although you can build Armenian too if you capture that area.. usually you wouldn't do it too fast.... the Ghulams are good early on but they are no match for the high/late heavy cavs of europe.

Expand into Spain ASAP, don't let them get a crusade against you, try not to take portugal too fast due to it's rebellious reputation, though it's a good trading port later on, once you defeat the spanish the weak aragon kingdom should be no problem and either bribe or defeat the other rebels (probably defeat is better as those province aren't build up and those generals are units you can't retrain)

Use the province with iron as you main military development and spread out development a bit... develop trade and genearlly build up, as long as you don't get hit by big crusades and don't lose control of the sea to enemies, it's quiet hard to lose by this point... slowly push into Europe, try not to get into war with more than 1-2 faction at once, maintian a large agents aresenal and use them accordingly... all the usual stuff....

one of the reason not going east first is that the Mongol hoard will eventurally seriously weaken those faction in the east, by then they become easy picking (and you don't have to deal with the mongol threat yourself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif )

Gotta sleep now... just writing this mostly to remind myself if I ever play the almos again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

econ21
07-30-2003, 20:42
Interesting post. Some related things I observed from participating in the VI Almohad campaign here in the entrance hall. The lack of good spears and cavalry is a serious issue for the Almohads.

With the cavalry, only the North African provinces can easily build them (Saharan cav). Faris and ghulams require quite a lot of up-teching, similar to that needed for feudal knights, so plans need to be made early for that.

The Muhawid foot are not really that good as anti-cav units - good charge and morale, but rather small and unarmoured. The Nubians are a little better, as the unit size is bigger, although a lot will die. Building taverns and using mercs (esp. heavy spears) is more attractive for Almos than for most. Bribery is another way to fill out the product line. I used to think AUM could handle cav at a pinch - they can do it in extremis, but they can't handle 200+ heavy cavalry. For that you need a lot of spears (or your own cav.)

There is a case for the Almohads taking on Egypt if only to get more North African/Levant areas to train Saharan cav, camels and Nubians. Conquest of Egypt is strategically simple, as you fight only on a one or two province wide front. Have superior numbers and generals, and the Egyptians may surrender most provinces without a fight.

IIRC, the better early Muslim ships (baggalas) outclass the early Christian ones (barques) and given the large number of coastal provinces with tradable goods, the Almohads can do well here. Keeping good trading relations with Eastern factions can help fund the conquest of the West.

Arbalesters are a great boon to the Almohads (and no doubt all factions) - they can shoot heavy cav at a range beyond their reaction radius, so it pays to get buildings in place for them to coincide with the start of the High era. Beyond that the change of eras brings little of merit for the Almohads, while greatly strengthening the Western factions, so it pays for the Almohads to conquer aggressively and early.

Imans are important for early conquest, as most of Europe is Christian and will rebel. Setting up mosques can help here too.

Crusades are a problem for Almohads, but the solution is to wipe out the crusading (ie Western) factions NOT the Pope.

Tony
07-31-2003, 02:17
Did anyone mention that the Almos start with 2 (or 3?) GOLD producing areas? Build them up to a mining complex with 80% bonus and the florins roll in. Very nice.

The almos rock in Early, but lack the quality foot soldiers for Late. No Saracens or Janissaries or CMAA equivalents. AUM just doesn't cut it in Late.

I like to take out Spain first in Early. Letting Spain alone to take out Egypt first sounds inviting, but Spain gets stronger VERY fast and will turn on you as soon as they are strong enough. Take them out first and do your best to keep the peace with Egypt. Stay out of Portugal until you are in a comfortable position - it is just not worth the full stack it requires to stop the constant rebellions.

Mount Suribachi
07-31-2003, 07:32
Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ July 30 2003,20:42)]Crusades are a problem for Almohads, but the solution is to wipe out the crusading (ie Western) factions NOT the Pope.
Hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Yeah, sorry about that Simon...still, lesson learned by me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

And I agree with everything else Simon says, AUMS rock, Ghazis die like flies but are good for hitting engeged cav in the rear, but the lack of decent anti-cav units is a real killer.

Demon of Light
07-31-2003, 08:00
Quote[/b] (Mount Suribachi @ July 30 2003,23:32)]
Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ July 30 2003,20:42)]Crusades are a problem for Almohads, but the solution is to wipe out the crusading (ie Western) factions NOT the Pope.
Hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Yeah, sorry about that Simon...still, lesson learned by me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
That was good for a laugh. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

RollingWave
07-31-2003, 11:11
Muhawid are definaetly not your conventional spearmen... I think it's much wiser to try to engage enemy calvary with something else first (Nubian or AUM or Bedoians) and flank the cavs with the Muhawid... they can fight against the Cavs just fine... but they usually die a lot during the initial charge due to their low defense and armor... so using them more like Ghazis are acturaly a good idea....

Stealing one or two province from the Eggies early on is a nice idea (espcially egypt to build bedoians which fills your badly neeed anti cav spot) ... though conquering the whole middle east is generally not worth the time and investment in many ways... 1. you lose a big trade partner
2. You are even more likely to get crusaded 3. You'll have to deal with the Mongols if you go up a bit more... 4. You'll have to deal with either the Byz or the Turks (which ever wins in their conflict will be pretty strong)

Yeah Imams are definately important, making sure all your province have a very high islamic ratio helps greatly to prevent rebellions and give you better Jihads if you need them... coverting enemy province (espically those with a small garrison) can creat trouble on their back... and they act as spies and emisarries too (though they can't propose marriages heh... I had a few chinless wonders my first time through http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif )

RollingWave
07-31-2003, 12:33
Hmmm do a general break down of all it's units....

Infantry: good, with the cheap and mass producable AUM as it's back bone, few can match the almohad's might in this area during early, though their effectiveness fades later on, the Ghazi is also a great cheap compliment to the AUM.

Spear: below average, only the somewhat fragil Muhawid and Nubian spearmen, though the Nubian is quiet a bit more effective than the presto spearmen and the Muhawid can be great if you use it a bit more differently than the conventional spearmen. But still no great lineup.

Archers: average, they have the desert archer which is a bit better than normal archers... but just a bit... berbers are definately not the most impressive calvary archer you'll ever lay your eyes on though they also double as a anti non-heavy calvary.... you get arbs in high which can sustain your range support reasonablly well combined with desert and berbers. (errr I never managed to build faris for some reason during my first time round... are they a VI unit? or did I just not have the right combo.. then again I also didn't manage to build any arab infantry ...)
Light cav: avereage, you get the Saharan cav off the bat, a unit fills the ligth cav role well enough espically consider that it's dirt cheap... but that's about it... you can also build stepp cav if you capture that area... the exact opposite of the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ... not very likely you get those too soon though they are better (and more expensive) than the saharan.

Heavy cav: poor: you can noramlly only build ghulams and royal ghulams... though royal ghulams are pretty good ghulams definately lose steam after early and espically into late.

Skrimish: good, Murabin are reliable cheap and effective skrimishers while you also get the great naptha throwers... they are your equalizer during most battles... (And high valor naptha will usually be game winners)