Which mod should I TRY to do? [Archive]

Lancer6969

08-05-2003, 17:58

I wanted to do a Turkish mod, but the Crusader mod would be much easier. I think that the Turkish mod would be great If anyone has any Historically correct info to share with me, please do, because this mod is going to be perfectly accurate(try to). Help is wanted, and needed. First off:

Factions?
Units?
Buildings?

I know that the Turkish had many different cultures during the medieval times, and I would like to kind of make these factions, I definetly want to present the English crusade(s) into the mod, since this was a big deal, I believe this was the third crusade???

Or present the Fall Of Contantinople....

Please help me with the History of Turkey, I just found out I dont know much about it, I am goind to study it tonight.

if the lord want to get involved(I think they have there own problems) they can, but LOS and others are pretty busy with there own mods.
This mod will be great

Emp. Conralius

08-05-2003, 18:44

I like the sound of a Turkish mod. As mentioned before, the Turkish war machine was made up of many different cultures and peoples.

As far as units go for the Turks and Crusaders, heres a few suggests:

Turks:
1.Seljuk Horse Archers- basic HA with better ranged attack
2.Seljuk Heavy Cav. (not too sure about the accuracy of this unit)- I was thinking very similar to Steppe Heavy Cav.
3. Maybe a Seljuk Infantry unit?

Crusaders:
1. Templar Foot Knights

TheSilverKnight

08-05-2003, 19:23

A crusader mod would be cool, but it's your choice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif make it wise, young jedi. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Lancer6969

08-05-2003, 21:57

Thanks Conralius,

I Will be including those in this mod,

any more Ideas would be great, even different cultures or factions.

Leet Eriksson

08-06-2003, 00:30

OK do both in 1 modill need to dig up some info on egyptian units.

currently i want you to scrap these:

1.Nizari
2.Hasishin

these 2 belong to one particular man who lived in some mountain long ago.AND THEY HATE EGYPTIANS

Proof nizari and hasishin are not even egyptian (http://www.iranchamber.com/history/ismailieh/ismailieh.php)

Ok,now to dig up egyptian units(both ayubbid and fatimid).

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 03:02

Good point, I have been looking at the history of the Turkish and its long and confusing. Very artsy, and beautiful. The Ghaznids and the Seljuks are my first choices and Periods. But like I said I dont fully understand the history yet. If anyone could help me with the info on Turkey that would be great.

Thanks faisal.... I was going to include Hashishins since they were very good assassins. Im not sure.

I really would like to go farther than just Spearmen, and Men at Arms. I know these were around for the English and French etc...but I really doubt the Turkish or Egyptians has these types of units, and if they did, they were nothing like the units of England or France, with exception to the Spearmen, you cant go wrong with them.

If anybody knows of good factions to use let me know.
I am thinking of just adding the Seljuks and Ghaznavids as factions, and finding the rest through help.

Maybe cultures would work for factions instead of actual civilizations, opinions would be greatly appreciated... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

So far every faction will have exclusive units, named from there faction, historically accurate.

Seljuks:

Archers:
Seljuk Royal Archers---Better than average archers, nobles.
Seljuk Heavy Cavalry---Farther range attack, look closely like Alan Mercenary or Steppe Heavy Cavalry.
Seljuk Archers---Farther range again, better than most attack.

Infantry:
Seljuk Royal Infantry---Large curved swords, strong charge, awesome armour, and look similiar to Varagian Gaurd

Seljuk Infantry---Large Curved Swords, similar to Hashishin
Seljuk Heavy Infantry---Strong and Big, similar to or Janissary H Infantry.
Imam Militia---Very brave fanatic town folk.
Imam Peasantry---Braver than most peasants

Cavalry:
//Besides heavy cavalry archers
Seljuk Royal BodyGuards---close to normal English Royal Guards
Need more Info for this category...

Help is welcomed.

Lord Krazy

08-06-2003, 03:52

I voted Turks also . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Emp. Conralius

08-06-2003, 07:40

Lancer,

Great ideas Im glad I can help. Asia Minor in that period of time was a very diverse indeed as far as cultures and differing peoples went.

When the Seljuks first arrived on the seen in Asia Minor, they were a one of the many Turkic steppe nomads from Asia. Soon after finding grenner pastures (figurativly, mind you) they settled in Southwest Asia and Asia Minor. Soon after, they convrted to Islam.

Now, the Seljuks usually fought from horseback and used infantry as auxilaries. Most Seljuk warriors (on horseback or on foot) favored curved, one-edged swords, round shields, and a curved, composite bow (of course). In battle, the Seljuks wore little in any armour. In they did, it might have been burlap or leather.

As far as fashion went, they favored turbans. This was of course after they converted to Islam. Since I'm nt sure exactly to what period you are going to mae the mod ot to Lancer, I'll also add that before their convertion, it was hard to tell the Seljuks from the rest of the Steppe nomads wondering Asia Minor. So they may indeed resemble other cultures like the Turcomans or the Alans.

I beleive the royal cav. units of the Seljuks should look like the Turcoman Horse Archer unit.

I also suggest a light spearmen unit compromised of Turcoman Infantry's model and the shield that Saracen infantry use.

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 14:18

Great Thanks soo much. I for sure am going to have the Seljuks Turcoman and Alans, but I would like to have a faction similar to the Golden Horde, a faction that can rip apart anybody.

Unit ideas?

Shahed

08-06-2003, 14:27

Hmm i am doing research on Ottomans at the moment. I guess I could look up Seljuk as well.

I do already have a range of possible Ottoman units, I'll post em up soon-ish.

well here is an example of two units:

Delil Cavalry AND Akinci Raiders:

Deli means mad in Turkish. The Delil were handpicked from the Akinci. the Akinci were mounted raider cavalry, largely composed of Turcomans. The Akinci were proficient swordsmen and in the tradition of their ancestors from the steppe, proficient at eliminating enemy by archery on horseback. The Akinci were tasked with relentlessly raiding the enemy before the main army arrived to finish them off. they lived exclusively on loot and hardly any of them were paid soldiers. When joined with the main Ottoman force they would act as a rear attack units (often) breaking off from the main force to destroy the enemy's camp and stealing their supplies.

the Delil were chosen to terrorise the enemy. They wore clothes to this effect, and often had face masks. They were intended to raid deep in enemy lines and demoralise the enemy by guerilla warfare. the Delil can be considered elite mercenaries, they were also paid by receiving the lion's share of the loot. Each Delil was trained and expected to face a hundred enemy in battle (so it is said).

Shahed

08-06-2003, 14:32

PS contact the org patron called Kanuni. he lives in turkey and may have some advice as well. Also CBR has done a lot of research on Seljuks for his MP wars Mod.

Any chance we could have Seljuk AND Ottoman eras ?

PPS source for above info:

Ottoman Warfare (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/081352685X/qid=1060176411/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-4194505-4916735?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

Shahed

08-06-2003, 14:36

PPPS go to www.allempires.com forums....there is a moderator there studying Turkish military history, full time, called Kutligh Begh Kaghan (ack terrible spelling mistake).

Leet Eriksson

08-06-2003, 15:44

First of all some cavalry changes:

Turks:

1.Turcoman Horse:for 300 they are not worth it,especially there weak attack and defence,so to make them a little bit better they could have +1 attack and +1 defence.

2.Khawarizmians:his applies to all islamic factions.There stats is good,but i would like to suggest some changes,first of all they dismount in Saracen infantry wich is bad for health in castle assualts,i suggest creating a new dismounted unit as the Khwarizmian royal infantry,they carried spears,swords and Small shields,Stats could be similiar to a dismounted Footknight.In my book the khawarizmians rarely dismounted,but they did dismount and became khwarzims palace guard.

3.Spiahi of the Porte:stat is good,but numbers is crap,i suggest an increase in their numbers to 40.for 550 its not worth it to recruit additional units of these,also boyars can eat them up although being inferior cavalry.

4.Ghulam cavalry:These are good for their prices,but feilding armenians is alot better,so i suggest you lower support cost to 13(55 florins)and lower building requiments,in early its just a waste of time to tech to ghulams.

Egyptians:

1.Mameluke horse archers:375???thats the price of a kataphraktoi,They tire quick,and they are slow.giving them the fast ability,+1 attack and +1 defence should make it a decent unit.

2.Faris:These were light cavalry(compared to europeans)they were as good as any crusader knight,and they did'nt carry bows.They carried light lances,swords and medium sized sheilds(not large or small).

OK,now some few units for both almohads and Egyptians:

Egyptians:

Al Halqa:These were the Elites of muslim cavalry and pretty heavy compared to other muslim cavalry(not as heavy as knights though).Stats should go like this:

Price:500
Numbers:40
Iresistable Charge:8
Good attack:3
Very good defence:6
Heavily Armoured:5
Very good morale:6

Almohads:

Berber Cavalry:Favourite weapon among the Almohad and Almoravid are javelins,and they only get one measily javelin thrower,who should be riding a horse instead of running on foot.

Stats could be similiar to Spanish Jinettes.

Andalucian Knights:Interested?OF COURSEI just read the Andalucians feilded knights,no true "knights" though,but these were something pretty close,wearing 2 layers of chainmail,carrying frankish sheilds(same style but Islamised,Koranic recitation and such are written on it) and heavy lances.

These could be similiar to feudal knights in stats,but they were not really famous in charging so that could be reduced to 6.

to Lancer6969-if your mod is exclusively on turks vs byzantine you could scrap the new units.but just incase you included egyptians and almohads,PLEASEinclude these.thanks in advance.

Lord Of Storms

08-06-2003, 16:18

I dont know much about this period and Turks, but just so happens I made new campmap TGA's (Maptex and Maptex2)for MTW from a really nice antique map of Asia Minor I was searching for new maps awhile back and the Asia Minor one caught my eye , it just had a nice look to it, I have not done a full map run with LMM on this map yet to generate the rest of the needed LBM's, BIF's etc but you are welcome to the TGA's if Asia Minor is the focus of your campaign. LOS

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 16:59

WHOOOWHOOO LOS you rock I would love those tgas. Man, that would help me sooo much. Now I just need to figure out how to implement them into my mod.

fasail--that helps a bunch too, I was hoping someone would ask for a Ottoman Period, those two periods work great, there was a period before the Seljuks, and I think it starts with an "A" or "S". but that would be the period known as "early". Ottoman would be "late", and Seljuk would be "High", into late. Maybe the Bayliks or Anatolians. the romanians played a big part in Turkish history as well.

email---jmlance29@yahoo.com;

thanks so much;

Lord Of Storms

08-06-2003, 17:08

I will send them to you asap, but given the file size 9meg and 30 meg I will have to convert them most likely to JPG then resize them for mailing, I use a program called Irfanview to do the conversion and resize it is a free download available at www.Irfanview.com it is only 800k and well worth it, My concern is losing some of the resolution during the conversion process, but we will see what happens it has been done before, the guy with the Middle East Mod is the one who used this process for his Mod and was able to get his mod new maps and all down to a manageble 2megs. As far as the rest of the files like the LBM's, Bifs, minimaps, faction maps etc that would complete the new map for your mod I will try and do them for you soon if you cant work anything else out, But right now I just dont have the time, but the TGA's are a start and you might not even like the map LOS

Shahed

08-06-2003, 17:08

So you will include Seljuk and Ottoman eras ?
And btw is the above info I provided what you are looking for ?

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 17:12

I wanna add the Romanians, Almohads, Egyptians, Byzantines, and the English for Crusader reasons, but I wish I could just make units of the English instead of making a whole English faction. Make the English unplayable.

Maybe not the English.....

Shahed

08-06-2003, 17:19

Units for Ottoman period. Copied from one of my posts in this thread:

An Opinion (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=6420;st=75)

An historical errors are mine alone.

Silahtar Guardsmen
The Janissary Corps were the elite of Turkish armies after their inception. They formed the center of the Turkish military forces. The Silahtar were Janissary. These were men who had already proved their worth in the Janissary Corps, were battle hardened and could be considered the elite of the elite. They fought mostly on horseback and were of course elite foot soldiers, as well. There were never more than 2,500 of these troops according to my knowledge. They used very fast Arab horses. Their attire was red Janissary cap with a blue plume, red tunic, and yellow trousers and boots. The Silahtar were replaced later by the Sipahi Oglan

Here is my version of the Serden Gecti:

Serden Geckti or, earlier the Sipahi of the Porte

General Comments
All Sipahi were not elite, however one thing that is undisputed is that the Sipahi were master swordsmen, capable of defeating any Western knight in hand-to-hand combat. The Sipahi also used faster horses than Feudal Western knights, on average.

Specifics
The Serden Geckti and the Sipahi of the Porte were "fanatic" warriors. There was no fear of death, and these men were known to fight to the last breath. There is not one instance in history (to my knowledge) where either of these units retreated from battle, or one of their men was captured. They considered only two options when going into battle. One was victory, the other, death. They formed part of Suleyman's guard during the golden age of the Turkish Empire. They were ever prepared to die defending the Sultan and their religion. Their battle cry indicated a combat to the death to the enemy. They would always choose to be slaughtered rather than be taken prisoner or flee from battle. they were "over trained" and were selected for their valor in difficult combat situations, and were highly decorated soldiers.

They were different to the other Sipahi, in that they rode heavier steeds, and wore heavier armor. Their armor comprised plate and mail armor, complete with helmet and face protection. Their steeds were completely covered with a caparaçon of mail and metal scales which could itself be covered with a skirt of fabric with yellow and red vertical bands. The head of the horse had a complete plate metal protection.

More to follow on stats.

Source:
Empire Ottoman (http://www.histofig.com/history/empire/uniformes/ottoman_fr.htm)

This webpage is primarily about Napoleonic Period but provides a decent info of some units which existed since the 15th century.

Lord Of Storms

08-06-2003, 17:24

You have Mail Let me know if you like the map and if you can use it.

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 17:28

SeljukSinan----you are a great help...i am going to include Ottoman and Seljuk eras, but I dont know what to include for the "high" era.

Shahed

08-06-2003, 17:34

I will look up some stuff for Seljuks. I would highly recommend contacting the people I mentioned earlier (Khutligh from www.allempires.com, CBR, Kanuni from org). They certainly know very well about the Seljuk, better than I do. I will try to help for Seljuk as well, though Askari is the main word in my mind at the moment. For Ottoman (late) era I have a lot of information.

PS sources for compiling information in the previous webpage:

-Uniformes ottomans à l'époque napoléonienne, plaquette Jean-Yves Troffigué..
-Boué (Gilles) : Battin, dans Le Messager, n° 31 et 32, 1996-1997, bibliographie, scénario.
-Les planches de drapeaux ont été réalisées à partir de documents du Service Historique de l'Armée de Terre.

Shahed

08-06-2003, 17:46

Nice link. In fact the largest community of Ismaelis (Nizaris) is now found in Pakistan.

Shahed

08-06-2003, 18:11

Suggested Stats, please modify as you like. Also I think the most important is that the unit performs it's fuction well. So you need to actually model the stats around the unit caracteristics. I'll try some elite units first, before the Azab and Levend.

Delil Cavalrymen

Unit Description
Deli is Turkish for mad. The Delil were handpicked from the Akinci. They were chosen to terrorise the enemy, in an early example of psychological warfare. They clothes to this effect, and often had face masks. They were intended to raid deep in enemy lines and demoralise the enemy by guerilla warfare. the Delil can be considered elite mercenaries, they were paid by receiving the lion's share of the loot. Each Delil was trained and expected to face a hundred enemy in battle. Delil Cavalrymen are the elite of the Serhadkulu. (Frontier Corps - the Akinci will belong to the same corps)

Caracteristics
-Elite unit
-Cause fear to enemy
-Excellent Horsemen
-Excellent Melee
-Excellent Morale

Class: Ambush, Guerilla, Cavalry, Attacker

Suggested Stats at valor 0
March Speed: 10
Run Speed: 25
Charge Speed: 26
Preferred Rows: 3
Default Unit Size: 16
Support costs: 3 (they lived from plunder)

Weapons for High: Sword, Mace, Lance, Composite Bow
Weapons for Late: Sword, Mace, Lance, Composite Bow, MUSKET

Historically each man carried a different set of weapons. Hence you have to choose which of the above you wish to include. It would make sense to include one ranged and one melee weapon.

Charge: 5
Attack: 6
Defense: 6
Armor: 3
Morale: 12

EDIT: added unit size

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 18:13

I will DL the map today at home, I am in class right now. I cant wait though. Every unit you guys put into this post, I will include in my mod.

A Community Mod of some sorts heh????

Shahed

08-06-2003, 18:15

Don't get the impression I will do only elite units, the peasants will follow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Emp. Conralius

08-06-2003, 18:18

Lancer,

I forgot who posted the thread about Turcoman Horse Archers having more attack and defense, but tha idea was right on time. Turcoman HA are kinda weak and their poor morale doesent help a bit. Their morale, attack and defense should be bumped up dramatically.

As far as how the Seljuk Infantry should ook on the actual battlefield, here's how I see it:

Model: that of the Turcoman Foot Soldier/Jannisary Inf
Shield: round wooden shield
Weapon: curved blade. The same used by Nizaris and Mongol Warriors. Do yo know what I'm talking about.

LOS,
What else can I say? An enlarged map of Asia Minor? Simply AMAZING Keep up the good work

Lancer,
I was just reading that the Seljuks (in tha beginning of their bid for Asia minor)sent Turcoman Raiders to raid the Easern part of Asia Minor. They were met with a Byzntine-Georgian army, and the Turcomans came out victorious. I think this is another indicater that the Turcoman units in MTW simply dont do their real-life cunterparts any justice.

As far as factions go, here is some of my input:

1.Seljuks
2.Crusaders ?
3.Abbasids
4.Romanians
5.Armenians
6.Byzantines
7.Gaznavids
8.Alans?
9.KHWAREZM-SHAH EMPIRE? Im not sure how far east LOS' Asia Minor map goes...

just some ideas

Besure to check out www.allempires.com

Dd you sa you still wanted to include the Almos? If so, they should have a name that reflects the time period. I suggest re-naming the Almos the Moors. Sorry if it isn't too PC.
Your thoughts Lancer?

Shahed

08-06-2003, 18:23

The Turcomans made up the bulk of the Serhadkulu. The Akinci (pronounced Akunche) were Turcoman, and they defeated the Kataraphtoi at Manzikert.

I suggest dropping the Turcoman Horse as a unit.
It would be more accurate to call it Akinci.

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 21:31

The map is perfect, I just am going to have to try to clean it up a little bit.

I think it would be cool to use Akinci instead of Turcoman, since Akinci is a new unit to me.

As far as Factions go:

Seljuks
Romanians
Ghaznavids
Armenians
Sultans of Rum
Crusaders //just need to figure out where

So far those are for sure in it.

the map covers from as far as constantanople to almost Antioch, north to trebozond, and a far as armenia. Down to Mediterianian. All islands as well.

LOS, where were the Moors from, province whise??

dont know how to post a link so you guys can see the map sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

thanks,

Lancer

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 21:35

I might need some time on making these units, so if anyone wants to help be my guest. But I DO plan on finishing this mod, and hopefully soon.

Lancer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Emp. Conralius

08-06-2003, 22:35

Quote[/b] (Lancer6969 @ Aug. 06 2003,15:31)]The map is perfect, I just am going to have to try to clean it up a little bit.

I think it would be cool to use Akinci instead of Turcoman, since Akinci is a new unit to me.

As far as Factions go:

Seljuks
Romanians
Ghaznavids
Armenians
Sultans of Rum
Crusaders //just need to figure out where

So far those are for sure in it.

the map covers from as far as constantanople to almost Antioch, north to trebozond, and a far as armenia. Down to Mediterianian. All islands as well.

LOS, where were the Moors from, province whise??

dont know how to post a link so you guys can see the map sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

thanks,

Lancer

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
I must have misunderstood you Lancer. The Moors are pretty much te Almohads. And since the map covers Asia Minor only, the Moors shouldn't be in at all.

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 22:42

Well I actually just didn't know were the Moors were located. I thought they were almohad, but wasn't sure. Conralius...what other factions do you think should be involved....

I need help on adding a faction, and adding units.

Implementing the map, and creating new Heros and kings.

Emp. Conralius

08-06-2003, 23:24

Here's some info on the Seljuks:
The Seljuks (Saldjukids) were a group of nomadic Turkish warrior leaders from Central Asia who established themselves in the Middle East during the 11th century as guardians of the declining Abbasid caliphate, and after 1055 founded the Great Seljuk sultanate, an empire centered in Baghdad and including Iran, Iraq, and Syria. They helped to prevent the Fatimids of Egypt from making Shiite Islam dominant throughout the Middle East and, in the 12th century, blocked inland expansion by the Crusader states on the Syrian coast. Their defeat of the Byzantines at the Battle of Manzikert (1071) opened the way for the Turkish occupation of Anatolia.

Seljuk power was at its zenith during the reigns of sultans Alp-Arslan (1063-72) and Malik Shah (1072-92), who, with their vizier Nizam al-Mulk, revived Sunnite Islamic administrative and religious institutions. They developed armies of slaves (Mamelukes) to replace the nomad warriors, as well as an elaborate bureaucratic hierarchy that provided the foundation for governmental administration in the Middle East until modern times. The Seljuks revived and reinvigorated the classical Islamic educational system, developing universities (madrasahs) to train bureaucrats and religious officials.

I'm not sure of a Faction called the Sultans of Rum, since the capital of the Seljuks was in Rum (Iconium/Konya).

Here's waht I suggest as far as factions
1.Seljuk
2.Ghaznavids
3.Georgians
4.Byzantines (if possible)
5.Alans
6.Armenians
7.Abbasids or Fatamids
8.Romanians (if applicable)
9.Frankish or Anglican Crusaders

Leet Eriksson

08-06-2003, 23:25

The moors lived in morroco and spain(southern half)I posted 2 units for the moors they are the berber cavalry and andalucian knight,check my last post.

OK could you tell me the starting period?cuz the units differed somewhat in different time periods(abbasid and ummayed are different for example).

for now one foot unit for the moors(almohads):

Andalucian Armoured Infantry:These are proffesional spearmen,good at defending against cavalry.they had chainmail,long spears and large shields,no swords,so they are crap against swords.

Stats should be similiar to armoured spearmen,except they have large shields wich is additional protection against arrows.

Leet Eriksson

08-06-2003, 23:29

there were 2 seljuks,and they were both at war,seljuks of syria and seljuks of iconium.the slejuks were at war with the rum seljuks.This is from the "official Islamic history book"(Kitab Al Tareekh)from UAE's Education and Teaching ministry.I'm not sure of the credibilty of these sources,i'll have to check on them.

Lancer6969

08-06-2003, 23:34

The start period will be 1050 or 55. since thats when Seljuks started there riegn.

Emp. Conralius

08-06-2003, 23:58

I dont doubt the credibility of your sources, faisal. Do you suggest anymore to our list of factions?

Lancer, are you alright with the factions, or do we need more?

I think that we should start considering faction colors and banners. I really have no knowldge of these. Any suggestions?

Lord Of Storms

08-07-2003, 00:25

Quote[/b] ]The map is perfect, I just am going to have to try to clean it up a little bit.
Yes like I said the dark lines etc can all be cleaned up before finalising the maps , ok now that I know you like it I will resize the Maptex and Maptex2 TGA's and send them to you, I will provide a brief readme on the reformat and resize process so you should not lose much as far as the resolution, which can always be sharpened if its not to bad, I will send the files soon. LOS

Lancer6969

08-07-2003, 01:21

Should those factions be in all the periods, or what. I think they should.

How can I post a link or something so that you guys can see the map LOS sent me??

I thnk that list of factions is perfect, but

1.Seljuk
2.Ghaznavids
3.Georgians
4.Byzantines (if possible)
5.Alans
6.Armenians
7.Abbasids or Fatamids
8.Romanians (if applicable)
9.Frankish or Anglican Crusaders

I dont think Georgia shows up on my map.
The Abbasids or Fatamids, Im not sure who or where this go.
Frankish Crusaders would be my pick.
Romania was trouble for Turkish Sultans for a long time, what do you guys think on this.
I want to include the Byzantines.

Let me try to figure out the colors on some of them, and get back to you guys.

Faisal===== can you think of any other ideas before we set these factions in stone???

Anybody else have any ideas before we set these factions in stone

Thnks,

Lancer

Emp. Conralius

08-07-2003, 04:07

The Abbasids were the dynasty of caliphs who ruled the Islamic empire from 750 until the Mongol conquest of the Middle East in 1258. The dynasty takes its name from its ancestor al-Abbas, the uncle of the Prophet Muhammad. In 750 the Abbasids defeated the Umayyads and transferred the capital of the caliphate from Damascus to Baghdad, thereby shifting the empire's center from Syria to Iraq.

The Fatamids was the Islamic Dynasty centered out of Egypt.

Degtyarev14.5

08-07-2003, 12:36

Lancer6969,

Could you please please PLEASE e-mail me when you're done with this mod. I don't have any knowledge to contribute to the cause, unfortunately, but just reading over the post I don't think I can wait http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

adammgriggs@hotmail.com

Damn, this is gonna be good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

A.

Lancer6969

08-07-2003, 16:41

ArseClown,

I will email you when the Beta files are ready, thanks for your interest. It might be while though.

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Emp. Conralius

08-07-2003, 18:03

Lancer,

Could you e-amil me LOS' map of Asia Minor so I know exactly what we're working with?

Leet Eriksson

08-07-2003, 22:23

Faction line-up is fine.Ok start positions of the Islamic factions is very easy,Fatimids have egeypt and what sorrounds egypt,Mecca and Medina are part of the Fatimids territory except syria,Abbasids have modern Iraq(and all of the arabian peninsula,excluding mecca and medina and southern yemen).

Souther yemen is a rebel state so they ain't part of either the abbasids or fatimids.

and thats all concerning the arabian muslims startpositions.

The abbasid line up of units will be explained in detail in my next post.

But to give you a rough idea of both factions units,the Fatimids units before the crusades were good,after the crusades they mostly feilded nubian spearmen and archers and loads of peasant militia.The abbasids army had elites(cavalry),infantry(macemen,spearmen,swordsmen)and mujahideen volunteers(these can only be possible through a jihad or futuh).

the Ghaznavids are based mostly around Afghanistan,modern pakistant,and a small part of northwestern india.I have no idea of their units so i'll have to check up on them.

Thats it for Muslim start positions that i know of,Sinan can provide detailed info of the seljuks,ottomans.

Emp. Conralius

08-07-2003, 23:27

I'm glad that this mod is progressing as it is

Lancer,
could you perhaps scan a pic of LOS' map of Asia Minor or just e-mail it to me a:

bbeham169@aol.com

Faisal and SeljukSinan, you guy know your stuff Your really gonna make a difference in this mod Are rither of you familiar with the banners of the factions mentioned? We could definately re-use the Byzantine banner for the Byzantine faction (duh) and the Turkish banner for perhaps the Seljuk faction. Please note that Im not familiar with the factions of this period, so do say so if I'm wrong.

And if the Map goes as far east as Persia (Iran), maybe we could add the Kharezm-Sha Empire as a faction.

Lord Of Storms

08-08-2003, 01:46

EC, I tried to send you a bmp of the map with the addy you posted but it says no member of that name on aol so it would not go through?

Emp. Conralius

08-08-2003, 02:59

Quote[/b] (Lord Of Storms @ Aug. 07 2003,19:46)]EC, I tried to send you a bmp of the map with the addy you posted but it says no member of that name on aol so it would not go through?
Sorry LOS, hears how it goes:

bbenham169@aol.com

Emp. Conralius

08-09-2003, 02:33

The new map of Asia Minor is excellent Its a good quality enlargement and most of the provinces are already drawn out Asia Minor will truly be in a state of Total War (sorry if I sound too corny).

Now that I've seen the map that we are dealing with, the factions list will most likely go as followed:

1.Seljuks
2.Ghaznavids
3.Byzantines
4.Alans
5.Abbasids
6.Armenians
7.Frankish Crusaders

SeljukSinan and Faisal, do you guys know anything of the banners of these factions?

Leet Eriksson

08-10-2003, 00:03

Ok banners as far as my knowledge goes are like this:

Abbasid banners:mostly black back ground with white wirtings,most used is al shahadah,sometimes the name of the current caliph(ie:Ya mansour,Ya Rashid...etc etc)and sometimes a call to the mujahideen(ya ayuhal mujahideen)and sometimes using crude language(unpronouncable,but it is close to "kiss my @$$",i ain't joking,seriously http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif).

the Ghanavids:they had several forms of banners,but the most common one was a red background with a white box in it a red box with the shahadah recitation.

banners were varied in islamic armies,but these were the most common.you could also be creative and create your own style,it all fits anyway,but no crecent and star,most banners at the time had writings,mostly.

Leet Eriksson

08-11-2003, 14:04

can't let this mod die http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif,so i'm bumping it.wheres lancer?

Lancer6969

08-16-2003, 18:04

Hey sorry I have been away so long, I had to take my Java Certification exam. Didn't pass it, but I am goind to try again.

WOW You guys are great Thanks sooo much for helping this much. GOod Teamwork.

I am back now, so if I could get back envolved that would be awesome.

So what do we have now?

BUMPITY BUMP BUMP hehe...

Lancer6969

08-18-2003, 14:13

I guess this mod has crashed

Shahed

08-18-2003, 14:23

Really ? So soon. I doubt it. What we need is to make the camp map and the units.

I can only help as far as unit descriptions and historical based research is concerned.

Shahed

08-18-2003, 14:35

About the banners. there is the classic Seljuk double headed eagle and some other crecent and star ones. I will look em up and post some images. NP also on the Ghaznavis, I think I remember a source for those.

Lancer6969

08-19-2003, 02:29

What about the other factions, and do they have sub religons or were they mostly one.

Shahed

08-19-2003, 12:44

According to my understanding the factions are as follows:

1.Seljuks - Islamic
2.Ghaznavids - Islamic
3.Byzantines - Orthodox
4.Alans - dunno
5.Abbasids - Islamic
6.Armenians - Islamic
7.Frankish Crusaders - Catholic

I think it's enough to split them like this but they can be further broken down.

Lancer6969

08-19-2003, 15:48

Could we make the Alans Pagan, or would that not work?

I would like to learn how to create shields for the units, can you tell me how in a nut shell http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ...

The unit colors should be worked out also, unless you want to do this.

Shahed

08-19-2003, 17:29

I have no idea on modding whatsoever. Can provide historical basis for the mod, though.

At the moment I am also looking for appropriate battle cries, for the relevant factions. Not easy but I think I can manage.

e.g for Turks

When a unit charges in addition to the horn, all the soldiers shout AllaheuAkber.

That is just an example. There are many recorded instances right up to the Battle of Gallipoli (sp?) in WW1, which describe the Turks as using frenzied battle cries, to intimidate the enemy and to encourage themselves on. The Delil will need some particular shrieks as they were specially trained to cause terror, and this included voice.

e.g for Ghaznavids

At the charge, in addition to the horn, the unit shouts Nara-e-Tekbir.

Naturally the comands will need to be changed. the Seljuk will speak Turkish. I have a list of commands already e.g

Open fire is translated Atesh EK in Turkish.

The Ghaznavis should be speaking a mix of Persian, and Urdu. I have to do some more research on this. A kind of Indo-Persian if you wish.

I knwo some Turks, a Sudanese and some Persians who would most probably be willing to be voice actors for us. And ofc we have our own Faisal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

MEN HOWA ILLAHAKUM ???

Lancer6969

08-19-2003, 18:01

Sounds Great See if Faisal will do tht. I DO not know how to do that at all.

Shahed

08-19-2003, 19:04

Well Lancer. I thought you would be doing this mod. i.e graphics etc. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As I mentioned earlier in this thread I can contribute becuase I am already doing some Turkish research. So this mod can benefit from that as well.

I'm sure the voice acting is no problem.

Shahed

08-19-2003, 19:21

Here are some translations. I do not say these are 100% accurate. Some of these words may seem unrelated but may be used for commands and orders/description of units etc. ....e.g Defend could mean Hold Position. Some are just because I wanted to have translations http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It's a first try:

ENGLISH - TURKISH

*Attack - Hugum
*Attack is the best form of defence -
Baskin basanin, av vuranin
*Attack Strike-Tarruuz savazi
*Defence-Savunma
*Defense Committee-Savunma Kurulu
*Defence against enemies-düşmanlara karşı savunma

*Fire-Atmak / Atesh Ek
*Fire all your ammunition/weapons free-bütün cephanesini tüketmek

*Forward-Ileri
*Forward Defence-ileri savunma
*Halt-Durmak
*Halt command/instruction-durdurma komutu
*Retreat-geri adım atmak
*cut off the enemy's retreat-düşmanın geri çekilmesini kesmek
*cover the retreat-dönüşü kapsamak
*to be in full retreat-tam çekilme halinde olmak

*enemy-düşman
*enemy flag-düşman bayrağı
*enemy number one-baş düşman
*enemy troops-düşman birlikleri

*King/emperor-Sultan
*Queen/empress-Sultana
*Prince-şehzade
*the Sultan's audience hall-arz odası
*girl or woman who is a member of the sultan's harem-saraylı
*member of the bodyguard of the sultan-muhafiz
*battle field-savaş meydanı
*battle honor/standard/banner-sancak nişanı
*battle cry-savaş narası

*every inch a soldier-sapına kadar asker
*soldier-askerlik yapmak
*janissary-yeniçeri
*colonel-albay
*commander-komutan
*commander in chief-başkomutan
*commander of the guard-nizam karakolu komutanı
*supreme commander-başkumandan
*commander of the army-ordu komutanı
*vizier-vezir
*grand vizier-sadrazam
*chancellor-başbakan

Shahed

08-19-2003, 19:23

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I'm sure I made some mistakes, so please feel free topoint them out, and correct.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shahed

08-19-2003, 19:31

Well here's sounds we can use:

*Attack - Hugum
*Defence against enemies-düşmanlara karşı savunma Hold your position ?
*Fire-Atmak / Atesh Ek
*Fire all your ammunition/weapons free-bütün cephanesini tüketmek This can be for missile units.
*Forward-Ileri
*Halt-Durmak
*Halt command/instruction-durdurma komutu
*Retreat-geri adım atmak

more to follow. Just have to make some interesting combinations. Kanuni hope you are back from holiday soon, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif coz it would be a lot easier if you helped us. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

CBR

08-19-2003, 19:46

Just a quick note:

You need at least 8 factions or the game crashes.

CBR

Lancer6969

08-22-2003, 19:27

Yep deffenitly Crashed lol This is bad....more mods start but dont finish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Lancer

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Lord Of Storms

08-23-2003, 14:03

Quote[/b] ]And when WE dont even end up with the right amount of factions, wow
Actually you would have had to include the Papist faction also, that would have made 8, Lancer I understand why you are not going on with the Mod, I think it became overwhelming for you when you realized the scope of work involved, and that is fine no shame in that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif I think it was a great idea and if you are so inclined take a breather, regroup gather some pertinent info (lots here in the Dungeon)and as you can see by the posts from some of the others in this thread, you had some quality help and a good amount of interest, then start over , plan your Mod as best you can assemble a team and see who is willing to do what before starting and I think things will work out fine, I will help you wherever I can, if you decide to start again.Don't lose heart LOS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shahed

08-23-2003, 14:45

I have a lot of experience running projects and I usually know and can tell which are to succeed. I think this had a fair chance of succees, byt in the absence of a group leader, you can't achieve much. there are a couple of things I'd like you to note Lance. Firstly you wanted to try to make this mod, so I think the highest expectations rest on your shoulders. Secondly Faiz and I provided some info already. We do need a faction line up, I repeated several times that I can help ONLY with historical based info, units and such regarding the OTTOMANS, and also Seljuk. that is the limit of my time that I can dedicate. So I hope you don;t blame anyone for not continuing with this mod. Stopping it is your decision, and yours alone. It;s a lot of work and I certainly can't do it. If you decide to get it back up let me know. I would also suggest runnin this with some adminitration i.e dealines etc or you can do it like now everyone chips in when they have the time.

Let's get a group together, and do this thing. I can assume the following responsibilities:

-Ottoman units, Flags, Sounds and realted information.
-Voice Acting

LOS u interested ?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif