The best value for money unit in the game

[Tony]

Follow up to the "best unit in the game topic", but looking for those units that give a lot for not much dosh. Foot, cav, arty, ships - whatever - which ones do you feel are the Best Buys and why?

My nominees are:

AUM - these guys rock in Early and give the Almos a big bonus at the start.

Byzantine Inf - even with the increase to 200 florins with VI, these guys are still tremendous value.

Militia Sergeants - cheap, easy to build and ready to party. The AP and Cav bonuses are nice.

Ghazi Inf - these guys die like flies, but usually take a lot of the enemy with them. Cheap, fast and with great attack and the morale to take a licking and keep on ticking. There is also something very satisfying about sending a swarm of suicide ghazi at the enemy line. Did someone mention Jihad?

[solypsist]

celtic warriors - real cheap and good fighters

[Rowan11088]

Personally, I don't understand why everyone likes Byzantine Infantry so much. Their stats are fairly poor, and I've had no trouble plowing through them with almost anything, especially if it has armor piercing. Granted if they have like 4 valor they get to be useful, but giving 4 valor to a unit of Ghazis for example is much more cost effective IMO, because they'll actually survive for a while and slaughter absolutely everything.
Overall the most cost effective unit, for me, is maybe spearmen. They're incredibly cheap, and not very useful in mid to late game, but in the first 20 years or more they are vital and also very inexpensive. They really do quite well even against higher level cavalry, because their rank bonus when combined with the cav bonus is pretty decent. And most of all, they barely move when fighting, so they can easily tie up a powerful unit or two to allow for a flanking maneuver. I think for their price that's really valuable.

[Martok]

Highland Clansmen and Vikings, at least for the low-level units. Militia seargents are also quite cost-effective, in terms of their kill-to-expense ratio.

[Tony]

From the replies so far it looks like folks find good morale combined with decent melee ratings more valuable than any other stats for the cheaper units? I tend to agree with this view - high melee to have an impact (lots of enemy corpses) combined with some staying power (decent morale).

Ghazi and Vikings both have the good melee and morale figures to qualify, particularly in the Early period where high morale foot units are rather scarce (4 and 6 morale respectively? - I don't have the stat file on this PC - so I can't quote the exact numbers).

Both units tend to fall apart when faced with a unit with good attack, good morale AND good defence (e.g. CMAA), but in Early they are very, very effective.

Any comments?

[Mak]

This may seem silly but Royal Knights get my vote for most useful unit for upkeep cost.

1. They kick ass
2. At 62 cost to up keep not much considering what they can do(i know there are only 20, but 20 that kick ass)
3. They can dismnount, thereby are variable in tactics.
Very useful against enemy Cav leaders (often the case), and very useful on bridge battles.
4. They kick ass
5. They do not die
6. Easy to gain valour, mow down running units.
7. They kick ass

Best units in the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[jLan]

Eh chiv knights are far more cost effective than royal knights... bit better stats i think, as well as being 40 men, and about the same upkeep cost. Course it depends if you're talking about early, high or late royal knights since they're different http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

course both units are expensive, so if I wanted to make a kickass CHEAP army, id have 50% vikings/ghazis and 50% saracen infantry/spearmen, and 1 or 2 troops of light cavalry... Just have the spearmen tie up the enemy and use your shock troops to punch through em. Murabitin infantry is also quite cost effective... irresistable charge, bonus vs cav, fast?

[hoom]

If you're in the desert, then Camels.

Cheap, low infrastructure requirements & even though slow for cavalry, they are actually pretty good for head on melee with infantry.
At least, in early.

Militia Sergeants

Chiv Sergeants?

Horse Archers.
Not that I personally actually use them for anything more than chasing down routing enemy, but I'm well aware that in the hands of a decent general they can be an utter pain in the ass.

[A.Saturnus]

Saracen inf, cheap, easy to train and as good as chiv-sgts

Gothic knights, really cheap for their effect, but need high infrastructur

[Maelstrom]

Has to be Highland Clansmen. 100 to buy, 23 to maintain for a fast unit with a good attack and charge.

Ideal for garrisons, shock troops, castle assaults, ambushes and pretty much anything else.

I always try to get Scotland as early as I can in the game just to get these.

Militia Sergeants come a close second.

[Hurin_Rules]

Yep, militia sergeants and clansmen rock.

I like horse archers as well. I use them in hordes. If you can get them in the field against an army weak in archers, you can destroy them without ever having to take a casualty. Then, when the enemy is broken, put them in wedge formation and charge down the enemy. These guys go up in valor fast with all those kills.

I agree that royal knights are darn good too. Sure, they're not as good as chivalric knights, but they require a whole lot less tech to build. Whenever I fight an army in early, I concentrate on those royal knights, cuz if I can beat them then I can usually beat the rest of the army as well.

Another good unit in this mode is mounted crossbowmen. AS the Germans, these guys are essential, especially when taking switzerland. I sicked 12 units of crowssbowmen on those deadly swiss pikemen and killed hundreds of them. Saved me countless troops.

[NewJeffCT]

Pavise arbs are a bargain with 22 support cost. I used to prefer archers because of their higher rate of fire until I realized that they had much higher support costs.

[jLan]

Typo up there... meant Muwahid, not Murabitin :o

Oh yeah, gallowglasses also rock. like 150 to build, excellent attack, strong charge and good defense...

[terryblack825]

I like the basic archer unit mainly because i only play in early and most of the units that are used in early dont have very good armour

[hoom]

Another point regarding Royal Knights:
The build cost.
Free + kick ass = ultimate cost/performance ratio http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Much the same for everyone elses prince/king unit type.

[Praylak]

Many make good points here on their selected unit, but I'll wager my days pay on the Futuwwa. The ability to both rain death from above and dish out good kills is easily worth the 300 Florins. (think it's 300.) And they have both great morale and good attack.

[Martok]

Quote[/b] ]Horse Archers.
Not that I personally actually use them for anything more than chasing down routing enemy, but I'm well aware that in the hands of a decent general they can be an utter pain in the ass.

Pain in the ass is right If I'm playing as Egypt or the Byz, I automatically make the Turks my #1 Enemy, if for no reason other than that I hate those stupid horse archers so much. Unless you have some type of fast cavalry in your army that can chase them down, they're virtually impossible to deal with. Of course, horse archers are only of limited use on hilly/mountainous battlefields, but they're still incredibly annoying--as well as very difficult to kill

[AgentBif]

Quote[/b] (Martok @ Aug. 10 2003,11:53)]Pain in the ass is right If I'm playing as Egypt or the Byz, I automatically make the Turks my #1 Enemy, if for no reason other than that I hate those stupid horse archers so much.
If you have time and money to prepare for a horse archer army, foot archers will shred them pretty good. Each unit of horse only carries 40 bows vs 60 per foot. The horse bows are weaker too. Finally, horse archers have almost no armor...

The ideal horse archer killer would be the pavise arb.

[Tony]

Pavise Arbs are the ideal answer to mongol light cav. Have a horse killer unit standing behind them in case the heavies show up or the light cav wants to rumble in melee (Halberdiers / Pikemen / Billmen...etc).

Tame the horde http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[hoom]

But the point remains that horse archers can be a very cost effective unit that can tie down a couple of units or even split an army setting up a defeat in detail.

[jLan]

Yeah I once had a troop of horse archers play cat and mice with the enemy Teutonic Knights, costing them their best cavalry... Ran around entire map, then came running back to the infantry after the latter had beaten up the enemy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

They really are great for occupying and/or harassing enemy units in battle.

[BDC]

I vote longbowmen. Hold up an ememy unit in melee on a slope below the longbowmen, then splat. Lots of dead enemy.

[Nelson]

Gallowglasses, handgunners and Viking Raider cavalry are all bargains.

[Kraxis]

As the English it has to be the Gallows... I mean 131 florins for that unit, that is a damn bargain.

I have to go for a unit with AP, they get more costeffective as time goes on. The better the enemy they better they become. To that effect Militia Sergeants are possibly the best. They are fairly durable unlike the Woodsmen, they hit fairly well too. The only problem is their morale, but it is not really that much worse than FMAA.

[DemonArchangel]

Byzantine Infantry and/or VG. Can't beat them for pure killing things power.

[Monk]

Gallowglasses, and millitia sergeants quite possibly two of the best units in the game when it comes to cost-kill ratios.

[bighairyman]

Mongol Heavy Cavalry. these guys rock. and w/ some Mongol HAs , they can even beat up the scary late royal knights. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wishazu]

I would say byz inf cos they only cost 200 and can give a good account of themselves against practically anything, also as soon as you start upgrading ur armouries they become practically immune to archers. Or possibly Billmen, they arive much earlier than halberdiers and are reliable against almost anything(Do Exclusive units count?).

[Fragony]

Gallowglasses get my vote, excellent attack and bonus vs armour, I believe they have irrisistable charge as well...
Blocking a unit with spear and smashing these sugarpies in their flanks will rout EVERYTHING.

[Sir Robin]

I would have to say Byz Inf.

With a descent general they are an excellent backbone for any army. Even though their stats aren't great they also aren't bad.

While expensive, Varangian Guard rock. Just plain brutal.

[Hurin_Rules]

People may think I'm crazy, but in playing my English campaign, Hobilars are kicking ass. They cost only half as much as Jinetes (125). Cavalry for 125 florins? Against the horde, they were holy terrors, running down his infantry and keeping his horse archers off guard. Jinetes are good, but cost twice as much and have to be babysitted. Put hobilars in a wedge and send them against the archers...

In short, ultra-cheap, fast, easy to build cavalry.

[Marshal Murat]

I know Hobilars kick ass, they can drive any enemy to their mommies. Also Byz infantry are the best, you can slice and dice most enemy armies with them.

[RisingSun]

Anybody that says any cav unit besides mounted crossbows needs to try them. NOW. I never had any respect for them, until in my current Italian campaign, I "inherited" some Egyptian lands with master horse breeder (IN EARLY&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif so I decided I'd get some to use against the Egytian and/or Turk horse archers. They ROCKED. They beat regular horse archers in melee, and can demolish any slow foot units. Theyre also great for killing royal knights. Take em down to 6-7 and charge from 2-3 sides.

[hoom]

Quote[/b] ]Gallowglasses, handgunners and Viking Raider cavalry are all bargains.


Handgunners??

Thats about the first time I've seen anyone suggest they are any good.
Care to elaborate?

[Mount Suribachi]

Whilst not strictly a unit, you cannot argue with the VFM factor of border forts/watchtowers. For a measly 300 florins you get 400 years of dead spies and assassins Nothing gets past the all seeing eye of the Watchtower

Thanks to SeljukSinan for triggering my brain with his tale of a 6 star assassin who bit the dust when he was accidentally left in a province with a watchtower...

[Eastside Character]

Mongol Horse Archers
cheap + fast + armed with bows = excellent unit

[Si GeeNa]

Looks like nobody gives respect to the humble Peasant who plows the field anymore.

Hey, if anything, they always do the expected thing for you.

They run

Make it work for you. In any battle, if units run, you chase and go after them. Use that to your advantage. The enemy will string out when chasing these fellas. Hit them with what's left

I have never come across a unit which has done so much for so little with so much losses and so little kills.

*What does it mean to be a Valour 9 Peasant?*

Maybe i'll start a new thread on that

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Qilue]

Royal Knights.

All those royal feudal knights from early can be upgraded to royal chiv knights in high and royal lancers in late. Especially Royal lancers as it's the only way to get lancers if your not playing as Spain or Aragon. Plus, they keep their valour, so after 380 years of combat, they can become quite good.

[Maelstrom]

My second bite at this, but I'll add Steppe Cavalry to my list of favourite vfm units.

Very cheap and fast with an excellent charge. Great for running down archers (foot and horse) and easily able to stay out of the way of anything tougher. Also excellent for lightning attacks on the flanks.

In my last campaign I tried to substitute for them with Jinettes, but these require too much micromanagment to use well and don't have the charge.

[Executor]

Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Sep. 01 2003,09:58)]Royal Knights.

All those royal feudal knights from early can be upgraded to royal chiv knights in high and royal lancers in late. Especially Royal lancers as it's the only way to get lancers if your not playing as Spain or Aragon. Plus, they keep their valour, so after 380 years of combat, they can become quite good.
I completely agree. After about a hundred turns into a game, most of my offensives are conducted entirely by royal knights. That's the reason why I prefer to play my games either as Spain or Aragon, because there are 4 provinces (Leon, Castile, Navarre, and Aragon) that can be used for cranking out knights. Sure, it's very expensive, but that's why I invest early in setting up a large trading empire. It's a lot of fun watching your knights butcher armies ten times their size. Plus royal knights make the best general units since you can keep upgrading him through the ages and know he will always be the best unit on the battlefield.

[rory_20_uk]

The celts win with the Gallowglasses and the Highland Clansmen (especially with the addition of some armour&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
At the start of the game, they can be relied on to butcher and in the case of clansmen catch most things - easily everything that is a similar cost, and many things that are far more expensive. Their svelte upkeep means that less money is drained for having a large army.
In some games I have played, I've tried to limit the number that I so that it does not become a tide of celts that are battling from one end of Europe to the other - and winning more often than not

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

For me its dependable infantry such Abbsynian Guards, Italian Light infantry and CMAA get my vote, with Landsmenn waitng closely behind. Although i always love the insane units in my armies such as Ghazi and Celtic Warriors which gives a good balance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[rory_20_uk]

Oh yes, the Italian infantry are great for just being absolutely solid, and a great unit to build an army around. You get them early and can use the same unit for many, many years. By themselves they'll not win you the battle, but they'll stop you loosing it (and munch through enemy spear units).

[Vanya]

GAH

Best value... gotsta be Saharan Cavalry and Berber Camels.

That is pretty much all you need to win a game.

GAH