Aren\'t kensai a bit... not so powerful!!!

[theforce]

I have learned a few tricks about him but still he is not powerful.
I always use him to flank tired troops to make em run trying to avoid cavalry which is not easy nowdays. Kensai can die easily if he fights a nd or wm and dies very fast against cavalry. No problem either for a good honor ys. I think that the kensai should be beefed up a bit in the next patch.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Vanya]

There are 2 kind of kensai in the world: those that live to charge into a mass of Ashigaru and those that live to charge into a mass of heavy cavalry. Which are your kensai?

[BakaGaijin]

Oof.

I don't think I'd use Kensai in multi. Human players aren't as stupid as the AI.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Gothmog]

LOL, this sounds like one of the frequently asked topic I mentioned in a recent post (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002666.html), hehe.

Anyway, if you consider on-line play, Kensi isn't really worth his koku. In the single-player, he is NOT either.

However, by the time you get Kensai, you probably are doing so well that you don't really care about designating a highly advanced province to produce one of those legendary swashbucklers.

Now with the full weapon and armor update, he is finally a force to recon with.

One really good thing about Kensai is: you don't really need to retrain him, either his unit got annhilated, or his entire unit survives without a scrath :P

But seriously, the fact that a Kensai has probably the fighting power of a whole unit of ashigaru and is also just one man, can be used to your advantage. Such a mini-unit can hardly take up any space, and can be micro-managed on every man basis (duh!)

And, use him to engage with an enemy unit so that your other unit(s) can do the necessary flanking and/or back-stabbing. The result is devastating. Don't expect him to be able to stop an enemy unit from advancing for too long though, for he is, after all, far from invincible. And even if he holds still, the enemy might simply ride through.

As for the castle assault, nothing beats the Kensai/BN combo. You can erase a whole legion with ZERO casualty. And that, is someone like Vanya loves to boast about.

Just because Kensai need one full year to train and cost a huge amount of Koku, doesn't mean he is supposed to be as effective as two WMs combined together(or squeezed into one man, depends on how you see it), but he is surely fun to play with.

One last thing I'd like to mention about Kensai is that, due to the "smarter" (or more cowardish) intelligence of AI, now AI tends to retreat very easily, if your force is much more teched up. And since now a retreat without fight won't count as a win for your general, this cowardness can be very inconvinient sometimes (you want your favorite general to reach rank 6 someday, don't you?). But however, suppose you take one HC, with 5 Kensai to take on 300 Ashigaru, the AI might be very very willing to fight ya. As to whether or not those Ashigaru might wet their pants when they actually see the Kensai on the battle field, that's another story.



[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 12-07-2001).]

[Kocmoc]

if u use the kensai right, he will do a lot of damage!

in MP u start with h0, so its cheap he gain very fast honour......and its hard to kill him untill he get tired....


u can hide him in nds, so ur enemy cant see him, so its a surprise....

u ever tryed to get the arrows?
with this armour its extrem hard to kill him,
and he can hold the archer on distance...

just a few, points of the use of this guy.

i think u should train more and try to exploit the system.
how we saw in the NC-rush post...

u speak very fast about changes in patches or
what is good and what not...

play 200 battles and than speak again...
but now it looks a bit for me, as u dont know
some things...

flame me for this, but ur comments show me this u havnt enought knowletge

koc

PS: if u want any help, count on me

[theforce]

Well l use it to flank as l have said mate and engage tired units. I never go against cav with my kensai. The good part is that the other guy can't see his honour http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
nobody uses ashis this days maybe before but not now :P

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Kocmoc]

i dont get this all, i play with different setups, some a stronger some less strong, but
u need to do this, ...so u learn how to use units and u get a feeling...


i use ashis, i use naginatas and i use other units as well...ofcourse i have my favorits
but every units i worth to be used, if u do in the right way.

look, why not use ashis?
u sy they are weak?

yes, they are weaker but they are cheaper too
so higher honour nad they are usefull
..the good point with ashis is, they are faster as the other infantry units!!!
...this is an important point for me

koc

[Jaguara]

Hey how can you guys flame this guy!

Did none of you notice that he is the guy who started the "Babiest babe ever..." post on the "Off Topic" section! You should all be kneeling and thanking him!

But perhaps he has spent more time "improving his health" than working with Kensai...

Jaguara

[theforce]

Someone that know what he is talking about! :P
Well l don't mind getting flammed :P. Anyway ashis tend to be cheap but they must be really high honor be rival with the other units. Being fast is a positive side. I used 1 of them in the gun age to be close to guns to prevent cav rushing to the guns while ys were a bit further cause anything behind the guns was blow to pieces. Anyway kensai is now even less powerful and with the current power of the HC l wouldn't be so stupid and add him to my army. As far as nag kocmoc they are slow and get tired easily. Also if you want to move them especially in totomi where fronts change all the time due to the lice little horsies they take ages to reach where you want them. Also for the cost you can have a beefed up yari samurai who is faster :P
Also nag morale ain't better that the ys one.
My point is that the kensai sould be beefed up or get it's price reduced.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[LordTed]

Maybe kensai r not so good, as there is a fear some sod may do a kensai rush, like monks. Leaving them as they are is ok as they are still only person....

[Kocmoc]

i dont agree!

nags move same speed like sams now!!!!
the moral got better, and they are full of power.

just bring them in a good position and let them hold....they do a damn good job now.

+ they bring a big moralbonus to the other units as well...

...just a few of the things, they can done, plz test them, i promise u they makes u happy.

the mix of the setup is important, and ur style...


koc

[theforce]

Hmmm l shall do some testing in some friedlies and see. Surely they are better that beefed up YS?

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[MountainSoul]

Personally I think kensai are great value If u like to pretend its you 8P,but more seriously does a kensai gen add moral to his troops caus i have seen armies that are winning run as soon as the kensai gen engages??? does he demoralise the enemy in some way??? I always wack one armour level on my kensai gen too and he does seem to hang around for a long time and i only engage him when enemy guns are decimated and the enemy troops are fatigued.

[Kocmoc]

it depends always, how u use the units...
i think naginatas just 1 or 2 in ur army, will improve ur playing alot...

i had a game today, where they hold 3 times a whole army (was a 4v4) and after this they had 35 and 42 men left, i backup the naginataswith high ashis or nd...it worked well.

the most guys, just play with 4 unittypes maybe 5, they never know what other units can do.... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
i tryed near all, and i think the most are worth the money, and every units has his own
advance...look the ycav, wow 15 charge!!
bullshit get a unit flanked and they are dead

or this ashis, the fastest infantery unit, beside the kensai...i believe (maybe ninjas???)


well, plz test it and visit www.fearfulways.com (http://www.fearfulways.com) forum ask a fear...

there are many nice facts about using grouping and so on...and if u have a special question...feel free and ask, u get always an answer

koc

[theforce]

Another good thing about the kensai is that once the battle starts is really hard to see where that kensai is cause he looks like a no dashi samurai so the enemy most of the times can't block a flank.
Charging with nd by his side he might look like one of them.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Zone]

I've said this before and I'll say it again (although it may not work on expert):

An army of 10 H8+ Kensi or so (an H6 Kensi general is useful here) with fully upgraded armour and weapons can happily take out an army of 700 troops that are defending a castle http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[solypsist]

Kensai are fun if you've played the game a while and are looking for new things to do. I like them, but only in moderation. I have some great screenshots of Kensai vs. Kensai in battle.

[NARF]

If only you could use some kind of skin. A kensai on a horse would scare the bejeesus out of me!

[BakaGaijin]

Kensai in SP are just too much fun. I love the buggers to death. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

As I said before, though, I'm not so sure I'd use them for MP. Not even just one. I don't think they're necessarily worth the 600 koku online.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!