Range unit not fireing....

[RollingWave]

Ok this has happend several time now and cost me several important battle in various campigns....

This seem to be true for all range unit... archers... arbs... trebs... catapults .. cannons... even skrimishers.... but in several battles I had what I thought was a very defensible position... a tall hill that is covered with thick forest... and isn't exactly horribly outnumbered (infact since this usually happen before reinforcement comes... the numbers are usually the same or even in my favor...)

Anyway my range untis start to fire on the enemy... but I notice that the enemy take very little in any damage from these shots... a lot less than usual.... and I notice the ammos on the range units aren't really dropping... suggesting taht they are not firing at all... but looking at the animation they seem to be fireing.... though the sound isn't very loud.... the seige units sometiems don't fire at all....

What's with this? it makes my range troops partically useless and the enemy reach me unharmed and goes on to slaughter my army..... wtf... this has happend more than once... is it due to the hill or the forest or a combination of both?

[The_Emperor]

Ranged units have real difficulty shooting out of woodland areas (because many of the projectiles will simply hit the trees).

Units will only fire at the enemy if they have a clear shot and if they don't they won't shoot.

Woodland areas are good to even up the odds against Cavalry, but Spearmen perform badly in the wooods (no supporting Rank Bonus). Woods are best for Foot Knights Halberdiers and Men at Arms to turn the tables on the cavalry... But in reality a strong position on a bare hill is much better for a defending army.

[Spino]

Actually it is possible that the reason your missile and artillery units are not firing is because they are unable to lower their weapons sufficiently to engage the enemy marching up those steep slopes Take a look in the Projectilestats.txt file (find the MinAngle and MaxAngle values) and you will see that all hand held missile weapons in MTW are unable to elevate their weapons greater than 57 degrees or depress them below -20 degrees. All non-gunpowder artillery units and the Mortar are unable to aim at negative angles but the rest of the gunpowder artillery units can, albeit for a small amount (-5 degrees to be exact). Only the Organ Gun can depress its barrels to a greater value, -20 degrees.

While the negative angle restrictions for artillery units are entirely reasonable the -20 degree limit for hand held missile weapons is ridiculous. But hey, that's what modding is for... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Oaty]

Another thing to note is that if you have 60 archers and 20 of them are stuck behind a tree you only have 40 that can fire and if you notice sometimes only the left or right flank of archers fire at a unit because they are within range but the other flank is not within range. Where I notice this the most is when you have the archers selected and you right click on a unit that orders as many of them that can to concentrate on that unit and if you left click they will march into a position so that all can fire on that unit

[LadyAnn]

There are two types of projectiles: the somewhat straight trajectory (arbalester bolts and crossbow arrows)and the curve trajectory (archers, including longbows).

Unit won't fire if cannot have clear trajectory. That's also true if you place another unit in front of your missiles (in auto fire). So here is what may help:

1. Don't put straight trajectory types inside woods. Put them in front of woods instead. Then if they are attacked, run back into woods for cover. Or best is to put them aside of woods.

2. Same for curve trajectory type: put them in front or on the side of woods.

3. If woods is narrow strip where you could put archers behind woods and you could stop the enemy from enter it, you could fire over the woods to the otherside. That is tricky, because it is hard to judge the range.

4. Longbows and some other archers (especially turk hybrids) are quite good in woods against heavily armored knights, while they get slaughtered when in the open. Cav has combat penalties for being in woods.

5. If hill is stiff, can't fire xbows and arb.: the negative angle people talked about earlier.

In sum, woods are good for ambush and place archers/arbalesters on the side while swords are hiding in woods, is the good combination. In order to take out your missiles, the opponent has to expose his flank to your units in woods. Meanwhile, they can't fire effectively into woods to kill your swords units.

As my clansmate Louis the Simurgh said: "the woods worth another ally". Especially when I am his ally http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Beware of the forest that moves

Annie

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Aug. 18 2003,22:28)]Beware of the forest that moves
For some reason I had a flashback of the Evil Dead Movies when I read that line...

"The Trees Ash, they are alive I tell you"

[LadyAnn]

I thought I was refering to "King Lear" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Annie

[Spino]

OTS but isn't that reference from MacBeth? There are a number of references to Birnam wood (forest) in the play; the place where MacDuff's begins his attack on Macbeth's castle in the middle of the night.

*pulls out a book of Willy S.*

Enter a Messenger.

Macbeth cont.: Thou com'st to use thy tongue; thy story quickly.

Messenger: Gracious my lord. I should report that which I say I saw, but know not how to do it.

Macbeth: Well, say, sir.

Messenger: As I did stand my watch upon the hill, I look'd toward Birnam, and anon, methought, the wood began to move.

[LadyAnn]

You are right, Spino, MacBeth. I don't know enough of English Litterature http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Annie