A glorious battle and the reinforcement pattern in the new patch

[Gothmog]

It seems that the reinforcement in 1.0.2 is still a bit ... both "realistic" and difficult.

As people have noticed in 1.0.1, the AI always get their reinforcements. And they come from different locations from their their end of the map. Usually in two groups.

However, there is no garantee that when/if the player's own reinforcement will arrive. Even if you are defending.

To illustrate this, I have fought several "epic" defensive battles in Ise vs Hojo. And here is the most glorious one.

http://www.magic411.com/Auction/Images/dick-bigvic.jpg

The battle was about 1000 men vs close to 7000 Hojo horde on expert level.

Notice that there are only 15 units on this picture, where, if the reinforcement worked, there should be 16.

Originally I had 18 units in that province, and before long, all my 3 SA were out of ammo. I withdrew two of them, expecting to get the small reinforcement: one Kensai and a unit of HC.

As you guys can see, the Kensai arrived about 5 minutes after the 1st SA left the scene,

However, the 2nd reinforcement never showed up during this 2 hour long battle!

In the end, all my muskets were out of ammo, every unit was either "very tired", or "exausted" or "totally exausted". But I pulled it through, using every trick I know: camping on the hill, jungle ambush, feinting and flanking, unit rotation.

The moral of the story? It's possible to defeat the horde in 1.0.2, just don't count on the reinforcement.

[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 12-10-2001).]

[Puzz3D]

I had a campaign battle in Mutsu with 26 units against the ai's 16 units. I pushed the ai back, but all my units, except for my daimyo, were routed. Unable to effectively rally, I withdrew my daimyo. After he left the battlefield, my 10 reserve units arrived in one corner, and I attacked and won. It seems that I didn't suffer any morale penalty due to the absence of the taisho unit, and I got all my reinforcements at once. One of those reserve units did have an heir in it, and he was killed without note.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[Gothmog]

Do you have to withdraw all original 16 units? My concern is that, if all your units were either routed or killed, then will it be considered a defeat automatically?

Also, did you F1 check the stats or the next 10 units? Were they receiving the general bonus from the Daimyo or the Heir? Or was the Daimyo still considered the general even though he was not there anymore?

[theforce]

Well l have never had problems with reinforsements. I was attacking a bridge with double the men as the enemy with only one bridge. My allied Takeda attacked without me with cav against spears. He routed and my men who just got there started to weaver. To cut it short my men appeared after a long battle. Reinforcements appear when your men are routed(entire unit) or killed. As l have seen they appear from both sides of the screen. This gives you an edge when the defender gets his men from 2 sides allowing you to focus on half of them. Is really easy to win even with tired men.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Puzz3D]

Gothmog,

All my units except the taisho had routed. I withdrew the taisho. I believe all units had left the field before reinforcements arrived because I don't remember seeing any unit icons at the bottom of the screen. I expected to loose when suddenly 10 units appeared. That' s what I think happened. It's possible that the reinforcements got there just as the taisho was leaving. I was so surprised that I forgot to check if the reinforcements were getting the taisho's honor bonus. I can't refight that battle, but maybe I can recreate a similar situation in another battle and see if it's repeatable.

That's an impressive victory screen.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[theforce]

Seems like all your men were high honor! Were the enemy units of the same honor or ashis or honor 1?!?!?! Just asking. Very nice win anyway. I would be more than happy if you would send me the battle log mate (zip it first) here m_yalonides@hotmail.com
Thanks mate.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Gothmog]

Quote Originally posted by theforce:
Seems like all your men were high honor! Were the enemy units of the same honor or ashis or honor 1?!?!?! Just asking. Very nice win anyway. I would be more than happy if you would send me the battle log mate (zip it first) here m_yalonides@hotmail.com
Thanks mate.
[/QUOTE]

The Hojo horde were consisted of a lot of cavalry (honor 1 - 3, some with weapon and armor updates), honor 2 shock troops (both ND and WM), many many guns, archers (mainly honor 2 I think) and some Yari troops.

Most of my troops started freshly out of legendary dojo, SA base honor 2, YS base honor 2, WM base honor 2, YC base honor 2, HC (one of the three) base honor 1, Muskets base honor 1 (from Tosa), Nag honor 1. The "battle-hardened" units were: General's HC base honor 2, another HC base honor 2 (never made it to the battle because of the reinforcement issue), BN base honor 4, Kensai base honor 4.

I had a rank 6 general, thus enjoyed the +3 bonus, however, I think on expert, AIs got +2 hidden bonus.

The best updates on AI troops were:
Weapon: +3
Armor: +2
Moral: +2

The battle was fought in Spring, clear weather, at Ise province. With timer off, everything else (fatigue, Limited ammo, restricted camera, moral) on. Game time was 135 minutes.

Noticed that your post count has exceeded 1000, congratulations (I think http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif), though you already got an impressive icon.

I'll send you the battle log.

The battle log reader doesn't work on this one bacause of the battle log size (I think), but you can open it with wordpad, or word. As you'll get more accurately information that way too.

[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 12-10-2001).]

[Subutai]

I had a similarly annoying experience. I had a tricky bridge assault to do, (lots of monks on the other side and I didn't have any), so I landed two complete armies in the province.

I got hammered back in the initial assault and was down to five units, but I figured I could rely on my reinforcements. I waited ages, nothing, made a coffee and smoked a fag, nothing.

Eventually I decided to withdraw, but as soon as my commander went off the battlefield the reinforcements turned up. Really annoying.

[Moriboy]

276 Ninja kills, 561 HC kills?! Sweet mother of Jesus!! What a battle!

[Sir Chauncy]

This true was something to tell your grandchildren about Mr Gothmog. That is of course if you were on the winning side. If you were on the losing side by the looks of it all you could tell them would be :
*faint gurgle as lungs fill with blood*

and then:

*argh*

Still a really cool picture. I sometimes wish my self that the enemy would gang up like this and send hordes of people at me when I have a really defensive army. And youalso say that you had to pull every trick in the book to win this one. Well I think that is a damn good book you have there. Selling it? I'll buy it of ya.

[Zone]

I didn't need reinforcements for this one, I was attacking a bridge with 2 Kensi (H10 and H3, one of them was my Rank 4 general) and 3 lots of BN. H6 ish.

The enemy had 658 troops, approx 100 SA, 100 YC, 200 ND and some YA/S

That = 37 v 658.

I won with 9 losses and 308 kills. They didn't see my BN which I'd run to their side of the bridge. They tried to charge across to kill my little lonely Kensi's who were standing there. They got slaughtered! Most amusing. This was on hard if I remember correctly, may have been medium, I occasionally like to speed through a nice easy quick campaign.

Either way, not bad.

Oh, and I faced the ronin archer semi circle for the first time today aswell http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[Gothmog]

Quote Originally posted by Zone:

Oh, and I faced the ronin archer semi circle for the first time today aswell http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]

The "crescent moon" formation is not exclusive to the AI.

This is a screenshot I took long ago. Of course in the end, every single man of my archer unit got slaughtered.

http://www.magic411.com/Auction/Images/myArc.jpg

[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 12-11-2001).]

[Zone]

How do you do that? Do you drag the line out from one side of the gate to the other? or is it automatic? Or don't you want to tell us http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

[BakaGaijin]

Colour me shocked and amazed.

Not that there's any use for it, if it's a single row... but, still!

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Gothmog]

That ... Ahem
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[oZoNeLaYeR]

How on earth u do that ?? what's the secret.
here my 5 australian cents. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Zone]

It's not always one line. It depends on how many troops are in the unit. The one I faced had two rows.

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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

[BakaGaijin]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Shoko]

I seen this somewhere else before?Arc formation......