EVERYONE READ THIS NOW!!!!!

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Sorry about that yelling in the title, but this is... important. To say the least.

The Finnish PC games magazine Pelit, known widely as one of the most independent and trustworthy of the globe (not bragging or anything http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif), had an interesting bit of news on their WWW page (www.pelit.fi) today. I don't know if some of you know this already, but I sure as hell didn't.

THERE WILL BE AN ADD-ON TO STW, DUE TO BE RELEASED THIS SPRING.

It is called "THE MONGOL INVASION", and, as the name says, will deal with the Mongol invasion of Japan, preciptated by Kublai Khan in the 13th century. It will have new "missions" (likely maps), troops and a map / scenario editor (YES PEOPLE). You can also play as the Mongols.

As far as I've been able to determine, there is absolutely nothing about this (yet) on the STW Community site or EA.com. I asked the Pelit news editor before letting the cat out of the bag, and he has confirmed that, as far as they know, this is actual info. According to them, the info is from a press release sent by the game's main designer. This is the real thing.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. WELCOME TO TOTAL WAR!!!

(I hope, God, I hope, this will not be a mistake or mix-up or otherwise false.)

So be it.

Sô Sukekuni
Tsushima no Kami

------------------
"The right use of the sword is that it should subdue the barbarians while lying gleaming in its scabbard. If it leaves its sheath it cannot be said to be used rightly."
- Tokugawa Ieyasu: Legacy

[Magyar Khan]

but why will u play with mongols if u can play with me?

"a next step in the prophecy.... one day, one day..."

[Anssi Hakkinen]

I thought you would be interested, Magyar. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

The Pelit magazine news editor is a good man; a honor bonus to him. He provided me (without me asking for it!) the whole press release, and it has more info on some extremely exciting new options the add-on pack will feature. Judging by what the release looks like, it is either real, or a prank someone has been preparing for months. It has the signatures and full contact infos of Panache PR's Cathy Campos and CA's John Fitzgerald.

So, it definitely looks like the real thing. If nobody has anything against it, I will post the entire press release in my next message (and if someone complains about me swelling my post count unnecessarily, I'll break his/her skull http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif).

------------------
"The right use of the sword is that it should subdue the barbarians while lying gleaming in its scabbard. If it leaves its sheath it cannot be said to be used rightly."
- Tokugawa Ieyasu: Legacy

[Rob]

You're forgiven for the title http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

This IS very good news!

Things are looking up at last!

------------------
Rob Hojo

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Look alive everyone, here it comes:

"Let the battle begin! Feudal Japan is under attack from invading Mongol hordes in the official expansion pack for Shogun: Total War™. In the new add-on pack you get the chance to defend Japan against the might of Kublai Khan or play as the marauding Mongol Hordes. The new enemy threatens to destroy the country and offers a completely new style of gameplay with the focus on pillaging the Japanese landscape (rather than building). The Mongol Invasion pack will also offer an array of new and improved features to reintroduce players to the original Shogun title that delivered a revolutionary style of gameplay through its epic size battles, giving players command of thousands of warriors, each with their own unique Artificial Intelligence (AI) and fighting to unify Japan under their own powerful warlord.

"Players take on the role of a 16th Century Japanese general - the Daimyo (clan leader) - leading and controlling massive real-life clans, each with their own individual characteristics. Shogun: Total War stays true to the inspirational writings of the mysterious warrior-philosopher Sun Tzu, author of the seminal book on strategy, The Art of War. Unlike any game to date, the game utilizes more than 250 rules taken from Sun Tzu’s work to ensure accurate and unpredictable AI character behaviour and reaction.

"The Mongol Invasion Expansion Pack builds upon the excitement of battle found in Shogun: Total War with the inclusion of Kublai Khan’s invading Mongol hordes that try and conquer Japan in the greatest external threat the Samurai ever faced. In addition, new historical missions have been added where players can take on the role of one of Japan’s greatest Daimyos (Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu) to fight their infamous battles in the “Campaigns of the Three Unifiers.”

"Adding to the game experience are new features such as six battlefield units including the Kensai (sword saints), Battlefield Ninja, Korean Auxiliary Infantry and the Mongol Cavalry. Players can also improve their holdings with new region upgrades as well as their armies with new buildings, such as the Drill Dojo and Strategy School where AI Generals learn the teachings of Sun Tzu. There are also new strategy map scenarios that take players straight into the fiercest conflicts of the Sengoku Jidai for quick tactical battles.

"For the Shogun Total War fan there is also the long awaited multiplayer strategy map and new editors that allow you to create your own battlefield for upload to TotalWar.com. New coastal terrains, sharper unit sprites, new scrub and rocky outcrop features and improved multiplayer all add to the critically acclaimed and award winning Shogun Total War.

"Key Features include:"

Then there's a screenshot, but it looks like a fairly ordinary (if big) Ronin/Rebel army to me. There are some cavalry on the foreground that might be Mongols, but I can't tell them apart from normal HC. Text continues:

"Fans of the original Shogun will appreciate the upgrades and improvements such as: graphics capable of taking full advantage of 3D cards which result in polished unit graphics, textures and special effects; advanced AI for more challenging enemies; and a more intuitive interface with streamlined camera views and improved battlefields controls.

"The game is currently under development for a Spring 2001 release. More information will be unveiled at: http://www.totalwar.com." (http://www.totalwar.com.)

Then there's the contact info, and a Dreamtime logo. That's it.

Sorry about this turning into such a long post (?), but I think it's worth it, for once. This add-on looks like it has everything we could ever have dreamt of. Multiplayer campaign, Battlefield Ninja, coast maps, editors... Lookin' good, Ladies and Gentlemen. Looking very good indeed.

------------------
"The right use of the sword is that it should subdue the barbarians while lying gleaming in its scabbard. If it leaves its sheath it cannot be said to be used rightly."
- Tokugawa Ieyasu: Legacy

[The Scourge]

Everything sounds good with the exeption of Ninjas on the field of battle.

[Shiro]

Sorry to do this...but why couldn't some of these things be in a patch? Now we have to shell out money (I'm kinda low http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) for a add on!
However, I'm so excited and I can't wait for it to be out! Bring on them Mongols!
-Shiro

[Zen Blade]

This does sound like good news.... everyone should spread it far and wide.

however, two small items...

the mongol invasions are 2-300 years before STW time period and why haven't we heard about this before now? Spring 2001 is not that far off....

not to be pessimistic (as the editor's-scenario one- will be great), but I fear that it will either not be out till summer, or there will be less features than those reported here.

but let us hope and hope, and someone should ask Shogun to confirm this for us!!!!!

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

[Tachikaze]

Sounds like a lot of fun, but the ninja should stick to movies, manga, and anime.

[Hirosito]

i'm being stupid here, does coastal maps mean you'll be fighting with the sea splashing next to you? What will that do to unit moral? Well face it: sunbathing or bloodbathing?!?

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Hirosito Mori

A warrior's wisdom is shown in the treating of his defeated opponent http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/owen/sid.gif

[Widda]

Godd job Anssi, well found... I read this post twice before commenting... lol

DoragonWidda Daidoji (http://www.totalwar.com/Players/PlayerDetails.asp?PlayerID=29892) .

[Ii Naomasa]

While I'm actually more of an enthusiast of Japanese history from the 10th through 13th century over the Sengoku period, I hope that the developers are thinking of the more logical mainland expansion - the invasion of Korea rather than the Mongol invasion that takes place over two hundred years before the classic game of Shogun starts.

For one, it would be a nice way to cap off a successful campaign in conquering Japan and, secondly, it would save the developers from having to redevelop both sides again, as the Japanese troops would be identical to how they are now and the only new troops would be the mainland units.

13th century warfare, through beginning the development process that would take it from the style of warfare you see in the Gempei war to what is more or less attempted by Shogun, was still quite different than the military engagements of the Sengoku period. Traditional, powerful families still made the mounted bowmen the supreme unit (even as some families and their subordinates began to fight on the ground beside the lesser-ranked troops). Archers have more importance and the yari units as presented in Shogun are not in bloom yet. I suppose nagimaki troops could replace no-dachi was the big-bladed-shock troops and other troops also modified, but this would mean statistical tweaking and new graphics for BOTH sides.

While 16th century Japanese battles may not have been pure examples of organized engagements, the armies present were disciplined and cohesive compared to the style of warfare three hundred years earlier. Troop compositions are different and therefore would not only require the work to have them function together correctly, but also have the AI aware of how to use them properly. It's a lot more effort.

As much as I dislike the term and the imagery it promotes, the concept of a 'battlefield ninja' is not too far fetched in a 13th century setting. Although not considered ninja in the modern mentality, there were a lot of commando/guerilla warfare type units back then. Ise no Saburo Yoshimuri, born a century before the mongol invasion, was an aid to the legendary Minamoto Yoshitsune and apparently was well gifted for very effective guerilla warfare strategies; his men would be doing what effectively would be the work of 'battlefield ninja', so to speak. Such units would have to be light skirmishers, though...and really more effective to sow confusion and disrupt plans rather than be an effective fighting force.

Any update to Shogun would be appreciated, I just hope that the developers don't find themselves in over their heads by forcing themselves to redesign so much of what they already have.

[This message has been edited by Ii Naomasa (edited 12-12-2000).]

...very fishy...

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the great lord http://www.geocities.com/vinyljock/monn_t.gif jd

[The Black Ship]

Well at least the Mongol Invasion will eliminate the profusion of guns...at least I think it will http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

It will be interesting to see how true to history they are willing to be, or will they just accept some inaccuracy.

No offense Anssi but why on earth would they choose Finland- population 4.7 million- to make such an announcement? Maybe we need to teach them 'Economics 101'.

[horatio]

BUT WILL I BE ABLE TO HOLD MY BREATH THAT LONG!!!!???

Sounds cool...

[solypsist]

Hot Damn!!

Guess I'll refrain from shelving STW while I play The Sims and Tie Fighter for a while. Best to keep my chops up.

[IRONLUNG]

I doubt this is anything but the truth Jaydee. Sounds good to me, and ninja on the battlefield could possibly be really damn cool.

Keep an open mind.



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IRONLUNG http://smiles.kpd.ru/icon2.gif

[Devil's Advocate]

I agree with Shiro on this one regarding inclusion of these refinements in a patch where they belong - compatible graphics engine - come on!

I differ from Shiro though re the excitement. The idea of this package suggests to simply give the Ronin some personality. "We'll call 'em Mongols... that way we can hide the unprofitable effort of patching the game within an expansion pack".

Prove that patch 1.13 works then plan the next step. I've waited almost 7 months for a workable game.

[ShadowKill]

Yippy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Fear not the sword to your front, but the blade at your back.

http://www.geocities.com/peacekeeper316/Shadow.jpg

[Dark Phoenix]

I really hope that this is true because even though I still really like Shogun I am getting a bit tired of it. But in saying this it is the longest I have played one game. Which I thinks shows how much I like the game.

I think that they will need to balance cavalry to make them more effective against infantry from what it is at the moment. Right now I hardly even use cavalry in multiplayer games or even in the campaign.

Phoenix

------------------
DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon

[Tenchimuyo]

Mongols!!!!
Hordes!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I mean the Hojos are bad enough and now they are going to put another crazy horde in the game! can this get any worse? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

[Obake]

Time to add my two koku's worth.

First off, although I agree with Shiro and DA to an extent, in critically reading the "release" that Anssi posted, there are a number of features that rightfully belong in an add-on. Take for example the new units, new buildings and map editor. These are features that most definitely belong in an add-on as opposed to an update but let's continue on.

From my reading of the release, they will also be including several new historical battles that will build on each other (the "Campaigns of the Three Unifiers"). CA/DT also appears to be including some "mini-campaigns" as well, or at least that's the way I read the "...new strategy map scenarios..." portion of the release.

As far as the new units are concerned, I am most intrigued by the implications of the Ninja unit. The only way I can conceive of this unit working would be if they also included a specific Taisho unit that would be a stationary target (ie bringing back the Taisho's pavillion!). Which is something that I believe most of us have wanted to increase the historical accuracy of the game (remember the old screenshots?).

I am also intrigued by the Kensai units. Will they be individuals, or a true unit. If they are brought out as units, it will be a severe disappointment and would appear to be designed as Monk killers. If on the other hand, they are individuals they had better damn well be expensive as there are only a handful of "sword-saints" in the entire history of Japan (Musashi being the most recent I am aware of).

If they are individuals....how will that be handled within a battle, and how will Ninja movement be handled as well for that matter. Will those units be considered part of the 16 unit max we have now? Will my Kensai charge a unit of 60 Warrior Monks? What about flanking bonuses? What about morale checks for my Kensai when he is flanked by a unit of Ashi?

Let's take a quick look at some of the other features as well. Perhaps most importantly from a campaign perspective is the "advanced AI". Sounds like they are going to improve on that (Very good thing) and that the AI will get tougher as the campaign progresses. At least that is how I read the part about the Drill Dojo and Strategy School where they say "...where AI Generals learn the teachings of Sun Tzu." I am also looking forward to hearing more about the "new region upgrades" and other "...new buildings".

Is it possible that the developers have listened to our requests for infrastructure to remain until the castle falls? Time will tell. I for one am very encouraged by this news and will anxiously await the new release!

Thanks for your patience with this long post.

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FearObake http://members.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net8/laghost.gif
I am the ghost of your fears.
Got a compliment or concern about a Fearful Ways member? Let us know about it HERE (http://pub24.ezboard.com/bfearfulways)

[This message has been edited by Obake (edited 12-13-2000).]

[Methabaron]

Magyar!!!!, look what you did !!!!

I am sure that you are best buddies with some of the developers !! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Metha

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"It is astonishing with how little wisdom mankind can be governed, when that little wisdom is its own."

[Shiro]

However, before we get all excited or negative http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif let's get some confirmation! So far, this news is unofficial.
-Shiro

[Obake]

Shiro,

You'll get no argument from me on the need for verification. However, I did check out Pelit's web site and although I don't read Finnish, I was able to pick out enough words to see that it has been mentioned on their site. If this was a release by CA/DT, we should get confirmation on the official site at this Friday's Honor Day.

If it turns out to be a hoax, it will go down as one of the biggest ever. I can only assume that Pelit is as smart as their reputation would indicate and that they verified thier info before putting it up, so I am willing to accept that this is for real!

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FearObake http://members.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net8/laghost.gif
I am the ghost of your fears.
Got a compliment or concern about a Fearful Ways member? Let us know about it HERE (http://pub24.ezboard.com/bfearfulways)

[Devil's Advocate]

Confirmation? Oh, the expansion will be out in 2 weeks.

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Situation report: I have nothing to report. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

So far, nothing new has come up. I tried to e-mail our noble Shôgun and ask him to verify this, but my ISP chose the perfect time to go down for the night. I sent the message only now. But it's honor day tomorrow: that would be a good time to finally put some information up at totalwar.com.

I also tried to check sites like www.gamespot.co.uk, (http://www.gamespot.co.uk,) to see if they had received that same press release, but no information there either.

I stand by my opinion: if this is some prank, it's a very clever one. Another possibility exists: the Pelit news editor I mentioned earlier was concerned if there was a release date on the press release (like "this information may not be made public prior to 24 Dec 2000" or something), but neither he or I noticed anything like that on the release. It's possible that CA/DT sent the press release to other sites, but the one sent to Pelit was missing the release permission date. In that case, it's an unfortunate mistake, but actually good for us.

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"The right use of the sword is that it should subdue the barbarians while lying gleaming in its scabbard. If it leaves its sheath it cannot be said to be used rightly."
- Tokugawa Ieyasu: Legacy

[Magyar Khan]

damni spend to much time on arranging this add on and got sloppy to influence the american election in the the only good direction.

why not campaigns and or scenarios like in close combat 2. number of maps linked together

[horatio]

the close combat style is one that I really like. imagine 5 zones. both start in the center with a set amount of units to draw from. from there you move foward or backward in zones like a football game. each battle is like a "down". Its could be fun.... but i guess they should already have the idea thought out.. so we will see...

[Dark Phoenix]

They have posted the latest honour day and there was no mention of the expansion. There was however of the localised v1.12 patch.

Phoenix

[sonic_nights]

I can't confirm it, but a friend of mine told me that an addon was coming. When he told me I thought it wasn't for real but now that I read this post it suddenly seems far more possible. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
This person (I don't tell his name because he hosts a website and that thing about a press release not to be "released" before 24 dec may be possible and could cause him problems...) isn't into Shogun like we are so I don't think he invented it(no reason to).
I'll ask him later to be sure and I'll post a news here and on ShogunZone.
bye!

------------------
ShogunZone
http://www.nipogames.com/shogun

[FearOrBeSori]

What!??? No cow catapult!?? Man... As for the rest of the expansion pack: woohoo. As for Magy and Mongols,: Booooo. ROFL j/k - Sori

[Nelson]

I agree with Ii Naomasa. Comparing a 13th century Japanese army to a 16th century Japanese army is like comparing a manipular legion of Scipio to one of Caesar's Marian legions. They were similar in some respects and very, very different in others.

I welcome the expansion but can't help but believe that these historic differences will get swept aside if the clock gets rolled back to the 13th century. Admittedly, most gamers won't care or notice. I would rather have seen the Korean campaign where the current system would be a better fit.

And battlefield ninja! Say it ain't so! The monks are already outrageous IMO.

[Erado San]

Nelson,

Don't forget there will be more new units on the battlefield, not just the ninja.

Besides, it looks like there will be more options to choose from. That can also be used against those monks. Or the musks, if you think they're too strong.

[serg]

What I don't like are new training/general training building. We already have famous building and that's enough. Units/generals should earn their honor on battlefield, not in school.

[Erado San]

Serg,

That's something that will happen all of the time. While you don't like a certzin option, others have been asking for it over and over. I remember from Question Time 2 that there were some players requesting these options, to enhance unit types they thought were too weak in the game.

I guess we'll simply have to wait and see how they turn out in the end.