MTW + Vikings, or not??

[Cannibal]

I'm a shoggie player with the warlord pack (I'm glad I came across it&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, I have just about enough experience to squeak by on expert and win with some factions in a single player game-it's not plain sailing by any means. I have a dial up connection which is probably too slow to allow MP.

So, I'm up for a change of pace and scenery for a while; yes, it's time to acquire MTW and I've probably read just enough posts on the subject to need some help out of naive confusion. Is it better to get MTW and patch it up to date, or get the Viking Invasion expansion too? I've read that VI comes with it's own set of bugaboos like the 56 year age barrier that no-one can cross http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

So, if you can live with that, what do you get out of VI that you don't have in a fully patched up MTW? Other than a completely new campaign to play, of course.

Thanks

[Revenant69]

Hi Cannibal.
Each has its own benefits i must say. HEre are the pros and cons for Viking Invasion:

Pros You have a new kool Viking campaign. You can play some new factions in regular MTW (Sicilians Aragonese and some more). You get a LOAD of new units. Certain improvements made in the game (arrows are dedlier etc AI is a better). You also get the quicksave option before each battle (MAJOR improvement).

Cons The 56 year bug is very very annoying. However it makes the game abit more predictable and can be fought. Trust me - I hated the 56 year curse with a passion. But right now i am learning to accept it.
I cant think of any new cons at the moment.

My advice to you is this. If you want to get all the kool stuff that VI offers then go for it. The 56 year bug is annoying but can be dealt with or ignored http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. Besides CA will make the patch at some point (*croses fingers*).

You could also do a dual install (thats what i have on my system) and thus have both MTW version 2.0 (Vikings) and MTW v1.1. It does require about 4 GB of space for that. So if you do not have the space then just install VI.

I think the new units, gameplay fixes, campaign improvements will make it more entertaining for ya. Hope this helps.

Cheers m8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

PS i dont play multiplayer so i dont know what VI offers in that department.

[tuopaolo]

Hi Revenant,

Thanks for posting such useful information

Is it easy to do a dual-install? Are there instructions for how to do it in the manual that comes with VI?

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] (tuopaolo @ Aug. 27 2003,01:20)]Hi Revenant,

Thanks for posting such useful information

Is it easy to do a dual-install? Are there instructions for how to do it in the manual that comes with VI?
No prob. My pleasure to help ppl.
Dual-Install is very easy to do, in fact there is a sticky in the Entrance Hall named NOTES ON VIKING INSTALLATION which tells you some useful info.

If you want to do a dual install just look at the readme on the Viking CD. Essentialy it involves these steps.

Step1. Install MTW v1.0
Step2. Upgrade it to MTW v2.0 i.e. install Viking Invasion.
Step3. Install MTW v1.0 in a different directory.

Thats all. Read the readme though if you have any questions.

[Cazbol]

In VI you can now decide before the battle the order in which your reinforcements arrive. This also makes it a lot easier to decide which units start in the field, i.e. no more endless clicking to get the troops you like. This is one of my favourite improvements.

[Drucius]

IMO, MTW with VI is a very much better option than vanilla MTW.

[Si GeeNa]

I was quite excited by the VI add-on initially but found out that the average game lasted only 3-4 hours of hard gaming.

Serious... Ive sorta played with the Irish, the Scots, the Picts and the Saxons... The Viking was a little more diificult faction than those above.

All in all, the VI was a simpler strategic game (Duh&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

My main grouse with the game is that it had an over-emphasis with the 'chopper' units. It was absurd with entire armies of choppers in the field and not heavy enuf cav to ride them down. Moreover, choppers will often cost at a fraction of the heavier cav.

Choppers like Gallowglasses, Highlanders, Celtic Warriors, Berserkers, Huscarles...

Especially absurd was the game with the Picts. They have access to the Berserkers and i go to battle with entire contingents of them.

*I wish there was heavier Cav to ride them all down*

Sorry for being largely out of point, was just considering the other aspects of VI rather than the Full Campaign.

[Old Bald Guy]

Despite what may be said of me, I'd say get both, esp if you can find them at a discount. VI adds a lot, and was worth the price. The Viking Campaign itself added little, but the new units, the pre-battle screen, and ability to play minor factions were terrific. Forget about the order of reinforcements, however, it doesn't work. You get cav first, no matter what the order.

The infamous 56 bug is simply annoying at worst. It doesn't break the game. It's simply incredible it wasn't caught before the $30 patch was released. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

OBG

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ Aug. 27 2003,05:43)]Forget about the order of reinforcements, however, it doesn't work. You get cav first, no matter what the order.
Hmmm... I hadn' noticed that. That's probably because I tend to start with all my cavalry in the field.

[TheViking]

I didnt get VI when it came out cus all of the new bugs, specially the 56yr bug

but some good friends of mine made me go buy it anyway.

all i can say i lost some months of good playing, but i wants to play the game without the 56yrs bug, but its not that anoying that the king die, cus he use to make many heirs before he does even in expert mode.

people say they have problems with the new reinforcement system, for once i can say, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif i havnt had any problems with that they come as i want them to come, and so does the ai`s reinforcement

so i say go get both MTW and VI, or else you miss some real fun time

[invalidopcode]

Get VI. It totally enhances the overall gameplay of the early, middle and late periods. Even with the bugs that were posted.

And, if you do not feel like playing a mammoth game, play the Viking Invasion portion of the game. The map is smaller and therefore will not take as long to play.

[BDC]

Yeah get VI. Anyway STW - Warlord Edition is coming out next for only a crisp £5 here, so I'll be getting that finally. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Pitt_Slayer]

yeah install MTW C:\programs\Totalwar (does it for you) then install VI C:\programs\Totalwar once you install VI over MTW you can't play the older version (MTW) and theres two seprate MP (multiplayer) so to play VI and the old verison off mtw, do this when you install MTW again: C:\Programs\Totalwar2 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
now you'll have 2 games for SP and MP as theres lots of ppls who play MTW online only, 2 rooms twice the fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Mr Baine]

Just bought MTW over the net, I can't afford VI just yet, so I am going to have to accustom myself with the first title before experiencing the joys of VI. I am eagerly awaiting MTW now, if my town's shopping centre wasn't completely useless I would have had it by now, but it looks like I'll have to wait till Friday. What patches are required to get MTW up to date without VI?

Thanks.

[Cannibal]

Thank you for all the replies Revenant, I like your idea of doing a dual install, my system sucks but one thing I do have is space http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I don't do MP either (dial up connection), but I am interested in some of these pass the file around games that I see going on here like the Kings of England thread and Kukrikahn's Almohad dynasty.

The consensus seems to be get both and do a dual install if possible. It's interesting that archers are real killers in Shogun, it seems like they were severely downgraded in MTW; now I hear that their power has at least been partially restored with VI(?)

Thanks

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ] don't do MP either (dial up connection), but I am interested in some of these pass the file around games that I see going on here like the Kings of England thread and Kukrikahn's Almohad dynasty.


Yeah PBM games are fun. I have participated in one so far (Glory of the Tzars) and it is really really darn exciting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Also, in STW archers were a killer - i remember having 12 archer units in one army at one point. They did seem to improve them in VI, thank God.

[mosborne]

I concur with the positive comments above and would certainly recommend getting VI along with MTW. I believe that the enhancements to MTW alone justify getting VI, even if you're not into the Dark Ages and Viking raids.

Actually, the Dark Ages campaigns are not that bad. The new units, new buildings, and new tactics provide a great break from the ominous castles, pavbise arbalasters, and heavily armoured knights of MTW. As others have said, there are bugs, but they can be dealt with, without compromising overall play.

I have found Dark Ages campaigns to be rather predictable however, and it seems that, regardless of who you are playing, there aren't many ups and downs to your kingdom's fortunes. You either thrive or stagnate. I found that once you are down, it is hard to turn it around, but if you can get off to a strong start and can conquer approx. 1/3 of Britain, you are assured of ultimate victory. I have won with the Picts, for instance, but have also experienced savage Viking raids on the first few turns that left me so weak and without any source of income, that my Pictish kingdom quickly died on the vine. Given that dynamic experience, I have wondered why Total Domination is the only victory criteria for the Dark Ages, rather than offering Glorious Achievements as well.

The types of units are certainly more limited in the Dark Ages, which is obviously historically accurate, but it also means that all your armies start to look the same and your tactics start to take on a one size fits all approach.

I disagree with those who lament the predominance of shock troops - did they call them 'slashers'? - and the poor quality of cavalry. Again, I suppose that's down to historical accuracy. Playing the Dark Ages means playing a time when the spear and axe-armed infantry man dominated the battelfield. As I said earlier though, it does tend to lead to cookie cutter armies and rigid battle tactics.

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (Mr Baine @ Aug. 27 2003,10:47)]What patches are required to get MTW up to date without VI?

Thanks.
Just one. You can get the patch at gamecopyworld or at the total.com site.

[Mr Baine]

Thank you very much HopAlongBunny.

[Pitt_Slayer]

yeah The picts are really hard to play, u just get things going hmm time to wipe out the scot's THEN F$%king vikings land on ur home town http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif so you got to withdraw ur armys to sort them out(and u normaly need twice as many men to beat the vikings) on top of that u know that the english factions are looking ur way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[mosborne]

Pitt Slayer-

My most recent Pictish campaign actually saw me off to a good start; allying with the Vikings to keep them off my back, adding the western lowlands to my kingdom, and building up an army for an invasion into Northumbria. It was almost inevitiable though,... the Vikings came around in their fancy (and deadly) ships, sank my pitiful fleet, and laid my entire coast open to invasion. From that point on it was downhill. Although I had fortifications to fall back into, preventing the Vikings from ever actually conquering my provinces, I had to keep 3-4 large armies staioned all across Scotland to react to the Viking raids. That ate up all my money, stopped my investment in farms and abbeys (for add'l income), and I was broke before you knew it. In about fifty years I was tens of thousands of florins in the red and far enough behind militarily and technologically, that I was no match for the now-dominant Mercians. Such is life in the unforgiving north of Britain, eh?

[twjunkie]

Cannibal, I was also a long time shoggie player. I just picked up MTW last week. I almost bought VI at the same time but didn't. MTW is great without it for now. I've been hooked. It seems like as soon as I get home from work its MTW till midnight. My G/F has sent out a MIA report http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
There are so many new aspects to MTW it will be months before I buy the X-pac.