Hastati, Principes, Triaari and Velites...oh my!

[Thomas Davie]

Slowly, it appears as if all of the components that would make up a pre-Marian legion are coming into focus. As some have mentioned, it would be a travesty if these troop types were forced to operate as separate units; hence the conecept of mixed troop tyoe units. This I would like, and could go for. This would be difficult to implement, no?

Another possibility would be to somehow 'link' together multiple units (eg, a unit of each of the above listed types) to create a meta units that moves together, and could be said to be a manipular legion. Sort of like ctrl-selecting to group units together so that you can move them as a whole. This is still unwieldy though.

However, there is no doubt that the Republican legion, and it's....ah correct representation within the game is important, for both historical accuracy and realistic duplication of battle tactics.

Any thoughts?

Tom

[Kraxis]

Well, I posted an idea in the thread just now.

I more or less want a Legion unit, not a unit as such, but a forced training of the three main units (velites would be standalone) and these could not be seperated on the strategic map. On the tactical map they should of course be like all other units, individually controlled.
Free tactics, but not free armies.

Perhaps Hastati could be trained alone, just so the Romans would have a chance to defend themselves when pressed. I mean it would suck if the Germanians pulled a Teutoberg on you and then took all of Italy with few forces, because you had to wait X years for a Legion to come out.

[CBR]

One way could be to put a limit on how many you recruit (max 2 hastati for each principes you had...something like that)

Or perhaps use population limit. Hastati was the younger soldiers so you cant get more than say 30-40% of your max recruiting potiential.

CBR

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Shameless self promotion for an old thread http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Raising or buying army (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=5804)

So, sure I would like to raise an army, which basically for Romans would be a legion with all its different components... This way we would not end up with a melting pot...

Louis,

[CBR]

Maybe an option to buy a "Legion Package".. 4 units, one of each. 10% rebate even http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

CBR

[deejayvee]

I think the package would be good, but it would have to be 7 units - 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 2 Velites, 1 Triarii. You could make the Legion package take 4 turns to build or something.

[Hakonarson]

The legion shuold be raisable in 1 turn - like virtually every other unit in the game - anything else is a-historical and if you're not going to bother with one "little point" then why "bother" with the others ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

the only exceptions I'd make would be for units of brand new types - eg if somehow the Romans got horse archery of their own (a opposed to hiring Parthians etc), then it shold take a while to train up new "Roman" horse archer units for maybe a generation or 2, until the skills had been presumed to permeate through society so extensive training was no longer required.

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (deejayvee @ Aug. 29 2003,04:21)]I think the package would be good, but it would have to be 7 units - 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 2 Velites, 1 Triarii.
Why would it have to be 7 units?

We have different unitsizes in this game. A legion had 10 maniples each of the 3 main heavy infantry types used so it would actually be more realistic to say one of each http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

CBR

[Nelson]

It is likely that all units will be purchased individually without regard to Roman formalities. I like the idea of raising whole legions but I doubt we will see it. I could be wrong of course but we have no reason to believe otherwise. It will also be impossible to dictate how players employ their troops anyway. If I am correct then perhaps CA could consider features that could be included in the game that would encourage players to maintain an approximation of a proper legion regardless of how the components are raised while at the same time being fairly easy to implement in a non-intrusive way. It is better to steer gamers with rewards for historically correct choices than it is to prohibit ahistoric decisions outright.

Bonuses could be awarded to legion units that begin a battle with other corresponding component types. i.e. If all 3 heavy infantry are present, give them all valor bonus. This would at least reward players who try to keep all three units in the army and may be the best we can expect. Ratios need not be all that important. Some of us could live with enforced ratios of triarii to principes but many would find this too rigid and inhibiting.

[Kraxis]

If you can train legionaries outside legions, then what is it that makes them Roman and not just some other heavy swordinfantry? Nothing really.
Giving a Valourbonus would be far too strong, as would a Legion trained in a year (if we are to keep the one per year principle).

It is not like my idea restricts you to train solely Legions, but you could go cavalry or perhaps even archery. But what MADE the Romans should be Roman.

[Nelson]

A valor bonus for having all legion unit types present would not make them too strong if much of their strength relied in part on being together as a legion, which is what this would represent. Having all three infantry types would get them the bonus and make them the Romans we expect. Not having them all would leave them weaker.

I would prefer to train whole legions but if this won't happen perhaps something else like this could work to encourage the use of the three lines.

[Kraxis]

Well, in that case I would want the individual units to be rather weak alone, but the bonus making them comparable to teir historical counterparts. Not being good, and then becomming even more powerful.

I just fear the AI will train masses of one of the units. Like it does now.