New pics

[alman9898]

Two new pics.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/rometotalwar/screenindex.html

[Shahed]

Thx.

[Monk]

gotta love them Hoplites http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mithrandir]

Thanks alman9898 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

Check out the main page ,
http://www.totalwar.org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

[Kongamato]

I cannot see them, I only get the red X.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Very impressive, especially the Hoplites.

[Shaitan]

The grass is awesome. But I doubt we will have the time to zoom in for such eye candys in the heat of the battle.

[Catiline]

Somethings wrong with those phalangites, they all have 2 pikes

[ShadesWolf]

Nice pictures....

Just wish we had a few more strat ones.

[Rocket_Boy]

Awesome....just totally awesome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif can't wait

[some_totalwar_dude]

Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ Aug. 28 2003,00:37)]I cannot see them, I only get the red X.
same for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

please help

[Stormer]

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/screen0/589390_20030826_screen002.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/screen0/589390_20030826_screen001.jpg

there you go http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[shingenmitch2]

Ah, so this was the one u were talking about Mith... thought it might have something to do with that body part reference...

Okee, try to repost:
Much is excellent about these soldiers (I am referring to all the pics on that site, not just the 2 new ones), and the war elephant barding is perfect

However, the artists continue to get many small details wrong and I can only attribute that to lack of knowledge -- EA needs an armor consultant -- and lack of attention being paid to the Osprey Ancient's series or Connolly's "Greece and Rome at War." If they simply copied the plates in those books, it would go a long way to helping them. Things that they've gotten wrong:

Greek cavalry behind that leader w/sword -- Excellent Boetian helmets, but the transverse crests on them are completely wrong... either eliminate crests altogether (which is valid) or have the falling horse-hair plume.

Ditch the "corinthian helmet logo" on the Greek shields and flags -- a simple greek letter "lamda" or "sigma" or the "Theban club" or "3 legs in a wheel" would be far more accurate.

Why are those hoplites running around with sarissa pikes? If those are supposed to be phalangites then they are just wrong. They should be wearing the Phrygian, Thracian or some other Helenistic helmet (which I have not seen anywhere, which is bizarre as this IS the successor state Helenistic time period) and the soldiers need smaller shields.

Why are the majority of the what appear to be Spartans not wearing Pylos conical helmets?

What the heck is that armor on the (what I assume to be) Praetorians? Some "fantasy" lorica hamata (chain mail cuirass) and Muscled Corslet hybrid?

The Corinthian helmet on the mounted cav commander w/sword is correct -- look closely at it -- as well as on those "sarissa" carriers. BUT the Corinthian helmets are incorrect on those (greeks?) in front of the buring wall... Main problem with those other soldiers is that the bowl of the helmet should extend out from the brow like the cap on a mushroom (tho not nearly that far or drastically), thus that ridge should be in shadow, not highlight and the facemask shouldn't be sticking up past the bowl at the forehead like the "Praetorian" visor. The more recent helmets look more accurate so maybe they went and fixed the earlier generation...

[Mithrandir]

Yea SM2, many more apologies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

You left out the part about being a nit-picker this time though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif.

[some_totalwar_dude]

Quote[/b] (Stormer @ Aug. 28 2003,15:48)]there you go http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Still nothing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

But thanks anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Spino]

Everyone please keep in mind RTW is still in development and may not even be close to reaching alpha stage. Much of what we've seen so far will still be subject to change in the coming months.

But with that in mind...

Great points about the phalangites Shingen. Perhaps CA is resorting to a similar method they used in MTW where the same exact soldier graphic was used for numerous classes thanks to the addition of different shields and weapons. Except here we have the same basic 3d model and animations being reused with new textures to flesh out the differences. Rather than modeling a true phalangite complete with a smaller shield, Boetian helmet and a two handed grip CA seems to be more comfortable taking a conventional hoplon wielding hoplite and trading his shorter spear for a sarissa that would be wielded with a one-handed default grip. Voila, instant phalangite.

Accurate or not these new models and textures seem to be far more polished than the ones we were shown months ago. CA got rid of the octagonal hoplon shields and added more triangles to make them look rounder and less angular. And the textures on the phalangites look excellent considering the memory limitations presented to the artists..

[Stormer]

totalwar dide gimmie you email addy and i send you them.

[some_totalwar_dude]

piet_ver@hotmail.com

Thnx alot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Oh besides my email is in my profile to.

[shingenmitch2]

Spino --yes the more rounded shields look 100% better. I was really hoping they'd add a polygon or two to those original models.

BTW I really like the long locks of hair coming from beneath the helmets... if those are Spartan troops that is perfect.

[CBR]

But what about the horses..the horses?? Gah

CBR

[shingenmitch2]

yeah, the horses are on the ugly side... I've assumed however that that is primarily a function of saving polygons so I can live with it (i.e. it's a technical issue more than an artistic one). It also looks like they've gotten better from the earlier versions.

My only criticisms would be that they probably are a tad large compared to their riders so maybe they should be shrunk a bit. The other is that the riders seem to sit too far back on the horse -- by this time period (IMHO) that the 4-horned staddle was in use, so they'd sit about where they'd be in modern saddle. Of course this saddle position issue could be a function of the horse size as well.

[CBR]

Yes the riders. I did plan to mention them too heh

They sit too far back and it looks like they sit in a hole lol. And of course the horses are too big.

In Ann Hylands book about roman cavalry there are some nice photos...4 horned sadle, proper weapons and shield yum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Much better than these screenshots heh

But Im not going to say anything about the hoplites with sarissas...maybe if we just make a wish and they will go away? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

CBR

[shingenmitch2]

CB --

BTW that is an excellent book Which will segway me to this way off-topic little rant:

Her description of the need for an armored cavalry soldier to have a stable saddle from which to use a lance (i.e. macedonian xyston) --let alone swing a sword (hell the armor by itself almost requires that some form of saddle be used) -- is one of the primary reasons I believe that Alexander's cavalry (full armored) had the 4-prong saddle or something similar and that this was the great advantage that he had over Persian cavalry.

By all accounts Alexander used his cavalry like shock troops -- totally certain that he'd defeat much larger cavalry formations and not hesitating to charge infantry troops (albiet from the rear).

I read a modern author saying how they only used the xyston to stab at the enemies faces and the longer reach of the xyston was why the Mac cav always won. A longer spear issue seems like an easy difficiency for the Persians to fix. (reequip with longer spears or simply ride closer to the Macedonians) And I saw no ancient reference about this "face stabbing." I think the author merely presumed it because he also assumed Alexander had no secure saddle from which to drive home solid blows.

I find it ridiculous to think that the people who could build sophisticated torsion balistae, the huge moles out in the harbor to defeat Tyre, and a friggin' Heliopolis couldn't figure out how to get themselves a solid seat on a horse.

Indeed, the famous "Alexander" mosaic clearly shows Alexander having lanced an enemy completely through the torso. He looks to be weilding the lance "Sarmatian style." How does he do this without a saddle? The xyston had a point on its rear end in case the front spear-tip shattered off -- which they did regularly -- why would they shatter so often if all they did was some tentative poking with them? The accounts that i've read point more directly to the Macedonians using the xyston as a lance in the Sarmatian way (2-handed and driving it home), techinique which demands that a saddle be used to absorb the shock of contact.

Other artistic imagery that I've seen wouldn't contradict this theory. Infact I keep seeing a wide belt strap running under the horses belly near the front legs that buckles on the horses right flank -- which is exactly how the 4-prong saddle attaches (and modern saddles for that matter.) The fact that artists don't depict the 4-prongs I would think is a function of the fact that the rider's pteruges would tend to cover them naturally, and that it is easier for the artist to make sure that their depiction has the pteruges cover them. (Something we see happen even now with art in EA's Cavalry for Rome Total War).

*now it's time for me to now put on my flame-retardant suit*

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Shahed]

The horses look like overgrown mules and their ears look like inversed ice cream cones, and in addition they bob their tails in perfect sycronicity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif :P http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

well looks great anyway.

*hopes they sort out the "small" bobbing tail detail*

[Balamir]

Eh guys we're really happy with the graphics you are showing us but isnt those "shadows" of the pikes a bit weird. I find it a bit difficult to say " The second pikes that is hanging in the air next to the hoplites"
Eek everyone has their fantasies but this is too much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif