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View Full Version : Medmod IV v3.04 Update (3.03 req'd)



WesW
08-28-2003, 07:09
The update still ended up with some pics and textures files, but now many. It's less than half the size of the full beta (1.5Megs).

All the changes I listed yesterday in the 3.03 thread are in, plus some more new ones and ones that weren't on the list. The mod continues to be refined, with more appropriate pics, and better units. This is going to be the last update for a while. I am modded out after spending the last four entire evenings on this. I am aching to play this version, since I feel it is much better than the last one, which I felt was fine a few days ago.

I think the Byzantines, Huns and Poles are the only factions not affected since 3.03. The rest all either have new units, replacements with different characteristics, or/and new graphics for some units. Even the faction descriptions for the Russians and Italians have changed significantly.

The mod description text should now be completely accurate, and I urge everyone to read it slowly and carefully. It is pasted below.
In the spreadsheet, the unit stats page has been updated to show the new Muslim lineup, as well as the stat changes.
The Christian units have not been changed much, but I have put a lot of effort into making the new units' descriptions accurately reference one of these "standard" units, so that you can get a good feel for how all the new units stack up with units you already know.
The unit names are all up-to-date, but the descriptions are not, so don't depend solely on them right now.
The units text pasted into the spreadsheet is also completely up-to-date, and is the best way to learn the building requirements for all the units. I have re-arranged the units to put all the crusaders, jihad, and bodyguard units at the bottom of the file. However, if you need to find a unit quickly, simply use the sort command on the "A" column to list the units in alphabetical order. You can also use this method to sort the units by faction, using column "L".

What I hope were the last few syntax errors with the units text have been corrected, using info from one of you here. This should allow the file to loaded into the Gnome editor.
Oh, if you are lurking, Denis, I apoligise for dismissing your report of the Berdyshi and Dien... texture errors. They are corrected now.

So, take some time to read the description text below, since it has been significantly altered from the concepts all the way down to the listing of the Outremer units in the Minor Factions section. With this update, most all of the Christian factions have gone through two major rounds of refinement, and even the Muslims have now gotten a make-over.
This should be the final unit lineup for the mod. I know I said that last time, but the revelation of how the game read the bodyguard units opened up a lot of opportunities, and once the creative juices got flowing, other things developed as well. I also saw where some of the factions that I hadn't paid much attention to in a while needed some adjustments, and now I think everything has finally come together.

For those holding off until the Public release:
As I said, I am going to finally take some time and do major play-testing of my own now. There will be a lot of work to do before a Public release is ready, mainly in writing up a formal, Word readme. Everything has changed so much that not much of the unit sections from the 1.85 mod will be of any use. I have been writing the description text with the aim of making the readmes basically from it, but you never know what you will get into.
Therefore, I strongly recommend that you go ahead and start playing the mod now. Other than the minor factions, the only things not in yet are oddities like appropriate dismounting units for the cavalry and rebellion groups, and I looked through a lot of the infantry tonight and got their groups fixed.

So, here is the text:

Preliminary unit list:

All factions will have access, in all provinces, to basic Spearmen, plus Archers, bolt, gunpowder, artillery, special attack and naval units, as well as Peasants. Note that these units will not have the two morale points that were added for the expansion.

Current regionally restricted units such as Steppe Cav are implied to still be available as before, though this could change later on for a few such units.

New concept: Standard and Compound bows. Units from non-Catholic regions, primarily the open Steppes and the deserts of the Middle East and North Africa, used superior bows to those of Feudal Europe, and now this is properly reflected in the game.
Units possessing compound bows have more arrows, so that they are easy to spot in the unit lists, and a list of all individual units is appended to the end of this file. A detailed chart listing the exact differences between the bow types will be available for the final edition of the mod.

New concept: Homelands. A dozen or so provinces that share the same ethnicity as a given faction, usually encompassing the faction's territory and some surrounding provinces. Note that two or more factions may claim the same province, where their peoples intermingle. This can often lead to conflict between the factions.

For non-Homeland provinces, you can build basic units like spearmen and archers, plus regional units like Steppe Cav, any generic bolt or gunpowder unit, any artillery unit, any ship unit that your faction can build, and any special attack unit such as spies and assassins. In short, you should almost always be able to put these provinces to good use, freeing up your homeland for the regular and elite troops.

New concepts: Restricted Inns and Buildable Mercenary units.
Inns can now be built only in provinces where the Mercenary "good" is found. These provinces will generally be in areas where ethnic Homelands overlap, and thus conflict is more likely, or in areas where special mercenary troops are available, such as in Ireland.
Each faction will generally have an Inn available at the start of the game. Thus, as your empire expands, you may be able to capture other designated provinces, build them up, and use them as further recruitment centers. However, this will take time and money.
Buildable mercenary units require all of the buildings that they would were they normal troops, in addition to the Inn.
Generic buildable mercenaries may be built by any faction, but cost 50% more than comparable units.
Faction-specific buildable mercenaries are restricted just like native troops, and cost 25% more than normal. The reduced price relative to generic mercs is due to the fact that these troops will not fight for just anyone with money. These troops are generally native to minor provinces or factions, and are hiring themselves out to the nearest, ethnically-compatible major faction.
Buildable mercenaries are a way of:
1)filling in the gaps certain factions have in their native troops, including Muslim factions
2)fielding balanced armies, or
3)just bulking up your forces; but all at a premium.

Note that Inns cost more to construct than before, since their potential effect is greater, especially for factions such as the Byzantines.

Generic buildable merc units (faction-specific units are specified in the faction unit lists below):
Alan Merc Cav- All eras
Germanic Knights- Feudal Kns; High and Late eras
Swiss Mercenary Pikemen- Late era only, Northern Europe
Almughavars- Late era only, Mediterranean region

Expanded concept: Unique Bodyguards
The discovery that the game ignores any era restrictions on bodyguard units allowed the designation of faction-specific units for each faction. Bodyguards can be any regular troop, and now reflect the character of their faction just as the regular units. Bodyguard units are denoted by the initials BG.

Expanded concepts: Crusades and Jihads
Crusades and Jihads now cost four times as much as originally. Crusades give approximately five times as many units as before, while Jihads have four times, since they normally travel shorter distances. Crusades take 10 yrs to build, while Jihads take five.
Special versions of existing units were created specifically for Crusades, in order to allow the increased in the number of units created. Jihads use existing units, but these units can no longer be built.

Jihad units:
Jihad Cavalry- old Royal Ghulams, now 40-man units
Faris
Ghazi Infantry
Jihad Infantry- old Dismounted Faris, now with same stats as the new Nizari
Muwahid Foot

Crusade units:
Templar, Hosp and Teutonic Kns
(Crusader) Mtd. Sgts., Gendarmes and Teutonic Sgts.
(Crusader) Hosp. and Gothic Ft. Kns.
(Crusader) Feudal and Chiv. Sgts.
Order Foot Soldiers

Note that crusading factions have access to all the Crusader Kingdoms units. These units are available in Palestine, Tripoli, Antioch, Cyprus, Edessa, Syria and Lesser Armenia.

Muslim factions: (All changes are from 1.85 stats)
Egyptian and Almohad bodyguard units will consist of Ghulam, Mamluk and Khwarazmian Cavalry.
Turkish bodyguard units are Armenian Hvy Cav, Ottoman Sipahi and Sipahi of the Porte.
Arab Infantry have higher charge and defense, and now carry a large shield. They are available in all eras to the Egyptians and Almohads.
Ottoman Infantry lose their bows, but gain defense and a large shield.
Nizari gain 2 charge points, but lose one point to defense and armour relative to their 1.85 stats.
Armourers have been removed from the requirements list for all Muslim units except heavy cavalry.
Muslim units are now 20-25% larger in size than Christian or Pagan units.


Huns
The Huns have a hybrid force of both Eastern and Western unit types, which reflects their struggles against both Muslim and Christian forces.
Note: The Poles and Hungarians have lost the ability to launch Crusades that was added for v1 of the mod.

Early-
Hungarian Nobles- Feudal Kns. (BG)
Szekely Horsearchers- use VI stats; bonus in Moldavia
Transylvanian Archers- Genoese Sailors; bonus in Carpathia
Woodsman (regional)- Woodsman now have a large shield and a little better descipline, which places them in between Urban Militia and Viking Landsmenn. Also, they can now be found all over Europe, except for the open Steppes, Italy and Iberia.

High-
Vlastela- Kats w/ 8 charge (BG)
Serbian Husars- Teutonic Sgts. w/ -1 valour; bonus in Serbia
Bulgarian Brigands- bonus in Bulgaria
Croatian Spearmen- Chiv. Sgts.; bonus in Croatia

Late-
Knights of the Banderium- Chivalric Kns. (BG)
Clipeati- Pikemen
Armati Infantry- Halberdiers


Poles
The Poles are a somewhat hybrid force as well, though they develop some very nice heavy units in the last half of the medieval period, and are further strengthened in the Late era by their merger with Lithuania.
Note: The Poles and Hungarians have lost the ability to launch Crusades that was added for v1 of the mod. They also share the sme Homeland provinces.

Early-
Polish Retainers (BG)
Szekely Horsearchers- use VI stats; bonus in Moldavia
Bulgarian Brigands
Woodsman- bonus in Livonia

High-
Knights of Dobrzyn- Kns. Templar (BG)
Czeladz Bowmen- Mtd. X-bow w/Byzantine Cav. stats
Czeladz Lancers- Teutonic Sgts.
Polish Militia- Billmen
Silesian Spearmen- Chiv Sgts.

Late-
Rycerz- Kns. of Santiago (BG)
Rycerz Swordsmen- Hospitaller Ft. Kn.
Silesian Pikemen- Pikemen; bonus in Silesia

HRE
HRE units have lower than normal morale, though they do get a boost in the Late era from their unique ability to hire Landsknecht buildable mercenaries, from Inns located within their Homeland. In addition, their Homeland is larger than normal, encompassing the traditional HRE provinces, plus Livonia and parts of Poland and Hungary.
There are two Landsknecht units: Pikemen and Halberdiers.
These units have better than average morale, and impressive stats, so an integrated force, combined with the excellent German mounted units, can be a very potent army.
They *are* mercenaries, however, so they cost somewhat more than regular units, though less than typical mercs.

Early-
Knechte- Feudal Kns.; bonus in Bavaria (reflects seat of power) (BG)
Dienstleuten- Mounted Sgts.
Heerban- Vikings; bonus in Franconia
Swabian Swordsmen- Swabia only, bonus

High-
Teutonic Kns.- Chiv Kns.; bonus in Prussia (BG)
Teutonic Sgts.
Saxon MAA- Saxon Huscarles; bonus in Saxony
Teutonic Spearmen- Chiv. Sgts.

Late-
Gothic Kns.- bonus in Austria (reflects seat of power) (BG)
Gothic Ft. Kns.
Gothic Sgts.



Danes
The descendents of the Vikings remain strong in infantry, but weak in the other areas (spears and cavalry).

Early-
Viking Raider Cav- like VC
Viking Landsmenn- like VC; bonus in Norway (BG)
Viking Karls- like VC but with 1 less arm; 100-man unit

High-
Nordic Mauraders- Mtd. Sgts.
Viking Huscarles- like VC; bonus in Sweden (BG)

Late-
Mtd. Huscarles- Gothic Kns. w/ -1 valour, lower bld reqs
Armoured Huscarles- JomsVikings; bonus in Denmark (BG)


French
The French are somewhat the *default* faction, being the one that CA seems to have built the Catholic factions' unit lineup around. Well, I have managed to work in a couple of wrinkles which I think you will like.

The French bodyguard units are their era's knights, namely the Destriders, Chevaliers and Lancers. This means that those units are available for that era only, though the French nobility will lead impressive, 40-man units, reflecting French supremecy in mounted knighthood.
In addition, the French knights will still retain their bodyguard status, meaning they may be built in *all* French-controlled provinces.

The French, as well as the English, can obtain superior Flemish Pikemen from Flanders, should they be able to capture and hold that rebellious province.

Early-
Destriders- Feudal Kns.; bonus in Anjou (BG)
Feudal MAA
Urban Militia
Woodsman
Pyrenees Brigands- Muwahid Foot; bonus in Navarre

High-
Chevaliers- Chiv. Kns. (BG)
Mtd. Sgts.
Militia Sgts.
Basque Inf.- Chiv. Sgts.

Late-
Lancers- bonus in Burgundy (BG)
Gendarmes- bonus in Paris
Compagnies d'Ordonnance- Hosp. Ft. Kns
Voulgiers- Halbs.
Partisans- Pikemen

English
The English forces gradually developed in response to the superior heavy cavalry forces of their primary rival, the French. To this end, they develop potent archer units as the period progresses, get an early form of Halbardiers in the Billman unit, and maintain adequate knights from their French possessions. Their native spear units are quite poor, however, so care must be taken with both army composition and placement on the battlefield. English royalty lead units of their country's most potent forces, Longbowmen, in the High and Late eras.
The English, as well as the French, can also obtain Scottish Highlanders and/or Pikemen, with Highlanders available in all eras while Pikemen arrive in the High era. Though the Pikemen are of poorer quality than the regular unit that developed later, they, like Billmen, can be an advantage in the High era, and may be the only option available to the English in the Late era. In addition, Irish Bonnaghts (MM v2.04 stats) may be bought as buildable mercenaries.

Early-
Norman Knights- Feudal Kns. w/+1 att.; bonus in Normandy (BG)
Norman Sgts.- Mtd. Sgts.
Claymores- available in Northumbria and Scotland; early only- unarmoured Gallowglasses
Highland Clansmen- Scotland only; bonus in Scotland
Bonnaughts- Irish buildable mercenaries; Ireland only; bonus in Ireland
Irish Dartmen- Irish buildable mercenaries; Ireland only
Longbowmen
Fyrdmen- like VC

High-
Muntators- Sp. Jinettes
Welsh Longbowmen- Welsh Bandits w/bucklers; bonus in Wales (BG)
Billmen- bonus in Mercia
Gallowglasses- available in Northumbria and Scotland; bonus in Northumbria.

Late-
Knights of Gascon- Chiv. Kns.; bonus in Aquitaine
Hobilars- Sp. Jinettes w/ +1 valour
English Longbowmen- Arm. Welsh Bandits w/bucklers; bonus in Wessex (BG)

Note: Arm. means +2 defense and armour

Spanish/Aragonese
When the Medieval period begins, the Christian factions have been pushed to the nothern highlands of the Iberian Peninsula by the Muslim invaders. The Early era covers the time when the Christians turned the tide of the war, the High era when the Almohad Empire collapsed due to losses and civil strife, and the Late era when the Christians set about consolidating their gains, including the initiation of the Inquisition, and the mopping up of the remaining Muslim-controlled areas.
The Sp/Ar enjoy a price discount on their units, and have stronger than average militia troops, as their people are used to defending their towns, and this war was about ethnic and cultural survival, rather than plunder or political aspirations.
Tercio units do not have a price discount, coming as they do after Spanish survival has been assured, but they do not have a price penalty, either, like Landsknechts.

Early-
Kns. of Hidalgo- Feudal Kns.; bonus in Leon (BG)
Spanish Jinetes; bonus in Valencia
Spanish Militia- Early Foot Kns.
Pyrenees Brigands- Muwahid Foot; bonus in Navarre

High-
Kns. Calatrava- Chiv. Kns.; bonus in Aragon (BG)
Caballeros- Teutonic Sgts.
Spanish Militia Sgts.- Viking Huscarles, can melee w/sh.
Basque Inf.- Chiv. Sgts.

Late-
Kns. of Santiago- bonus in Castile (BG)
Spanish Ft. Kns.- Hosp. Ft. Kns.
Tercio Pikemen- Swiss Pikemen

Italians
The Italians will be split between two factions; the Venetians and the Tuscan Confederacy. The Venetians will control Venice and all Italian provinces to the east, while the Tuscans will control everything west of Venice.
This will result in two relatively small factions, though ones with potent defensive troops and the potential to raise large armies through a profitable sea trade over time. The Venetians in particular could be poised to become a major power in the High era, when they will control Constantinople in addition to the normal Italian states.
Italian units are built to defend against attacks by their larger Christian neighbors, such as France and the HRE. This has lead to the development of superior spear units, with lower building requirements and at an earlier era than other Catholic factions. Well-trained, versatile crossbow units are also a hallmark of Italian armies.
In addition, the constant skirmishes and outright wars among each other, along with the Lombards and Sicilians to the south, has resulted in Contadina and Popolo militias that are stronger than normal.
On the negative side, the urban nature of the Italian power structure, built more around trade than feudalism, means that Italian nobles have not attained nor kept pace with the martial prowess and technological development of their Catholic peers.
Italian bodyguard units are rather unique in that they change unit type from era to era.

Early-
Contadina Cav.- Mounted Sgts.
Contadina Inf.- Militia Sgts.
Italian Sailors- X-bows w/ +3 att, +2 honour; bonus in Genoa
Ital. Lt. Inf.- bonus in Naples (BG)
Pavisiers- Chivalric Sgts.

High-
Italian Nobles- Feudal Kns. (BG)
Popolo Cav.- Mtd. Sgts. w/X-bows
Italian Hvy Inf.- 80-man hybrid of Gothic Sgts. and Halbardiers, w/ stats of 5,3,4,5, AP, Large Sh. and cav bonuses of 2,3; bonus in Milan
Popolo Inf.- Billmen; bonus in Tuscany
Pavise Sailors- Arm. Ital. Sailors w/ large sh.

Late-
Carraccio Guard- Gothic Ft. Kns. (BG)
Condoterri- Swiss Halberdiers; bonus in Rome
Pavisier Pikemen- Swiss Arm. Pikemen; bonus in Papal States



Sicilians
The Sicilians have perhaps the most unique army in all of Christendom, in that it employs significant numbers of Muslim troops in its repertoire, as well as Italian units and their own Sicilian Knights. The Sicilians fade in the latter part of the period, and this is reflected in the absence of new units.
Note: Muslim troops are only available in Sicily, in addition to their Muslim Homelands.

Early-
Sicilian Feudal Kns.- +1 att; Malta, Sicily and Naples only; bonus in Sicily (BG)
Saharan Cavalry- Sicily only
Mamluk Horse Archers- Sicily only
Contadina Cav.- Mtd. Sgts.
Contadina Inf.- Militia Sgts.
Futuwwa- Sicily only
Nubian Spearmen- Sicily only

High-
Sicilian Chivalric Kns.- +1 att; Malta, Sicily and Naples only (BG)
Popolo Cav.- Mtd. Sgts. w/X-bows
Popolo Inf.- Billmen
Pavise Sailors- Bul. Brigands w/X-bows and Large Sh.
Murabitin Inf.- Sicily only

Late-
Almughavars (buildable merc)

Russians and People of Novgorod
The Russian forces are characterized by noble cavalry, good spearmen and cheap but plentiful infantry. These forces can form a powerful force when combined with the horsemen of the Steppe. Also, their western provinces do have the ability to produce western-style heavy infantry, if it is needed to combat invading Teutonic Kns. or others.

Early-
Boyars- unchanged; bonus in Smolensk (BG)
Woodsman
Peshtsi- Slav Warriors; 100-man unit
Kop'ya Infantry- Feudal Sgts.

High-
Russian Retainers- Boyars w/ X-bow; bonus in Kiev (BG)
Russian Huscarles- Arm. Vikings
Slavic Infantry- Slav Warriors w/+2 att, def and morale; 100-man unit
Rogatina Infantry- Chiv. Sgts. w/+1 att.

Late-
Russian Dvors- Gothic Kns. w/ ex. speed but -2 def and arm; bonus in Muscovy (BG)
Cossacks- Gendarmes; bonus in Pereyaslavl
Berdyshi- Swiss Halberdiers w/ -1 cav att and def
Ratniki solva- Swiss Arm. Pikemen

Byzantines
The Byzantines are unique in the game for several reasons: the professional nature of their armed forces, the extent to which they used foreign mercenaries, their geographical location, and their history, such as how they begin the High era having lost their capital province to a deceitful combination of hypocritical Crusaders and schemeing trading rivals. Even though they were eventually able to recapture Constantinople, Byzantine power had been dealt a deadly blow, and the following years were simply the death throes of the empire.
Even though very capable units could have been raised or hired by the Byzantines, they were too crippled to make wide use of them. Though a start in the Early era gives you the opportunity to strike at your enemies before they can gain strength, later games will be a task of holding off the numerous aggressors around you, and then using your advanced units to grow your empire.
The Byzantines have access to perhaps more impressive units than any faction in the game, but they are hampered from raising large numbers of these troops by the geographic restrictions of many native units, and the mercenary status of the heaviest units, whose armour and training are foreign to the ways of the East.
To represent the large amounts of mercenaries in the Byzantine armies, they are given the ability to build Inns in three of their Homeland's provinces: Constantinople, Bulgaria and Greece.
Bulgaria and Greece were chosen to represent the fact that most mercenaries hired were fellow Christians from Europe.
Note that Constantinople is considered a European province for purposes of unit availability.

EARLY-
Kataphraktoi- replace shield with bow; bonus in Constan (BG)
Stratiotai- Byz. Lancers; bonus in Crimea
Vardariots- Byz. Cav.; bonus in Lesser Armenia
Hoplitai- Feudal Sgts. with an attack of 2; bonus in Greece
(Early) Varangian Guard- early only; buildable mercs; Constan only
Trebizond archers- bonus in Trebizond

HIGH-
Pronoiai Allagion- bonus in Nicaea; Asia Minor only
Kontaratoi- Italian Lt Inf. w/+1 attack
Paramonai- CMAA; Europe only
Mourtatoi- armoured Trebizonds, only available in certain former Greek provinces (Constantinople, Nicaea, Trebizond, Greece, Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete); bonus in Crete

LATE-
Imperial Kavallarioi- Gothic Kns.; buildable mercs; only Royal Court 1 req'd
Imperial Menavlatoi- Swiss Halberdiers; buildable mercs
Imperial Skutatoi- Swiss Pikemen; buildable mercs

Golden Horde
The Horde will retain their bonuses from the 1.85 version, plus they have some new units from their vast empire, and of course access to all the Steppe units.

High-
Mongol Heavy Cav. (BG)
Mongol HA
Mongol Warriors
Chinese Infantry- Saracen Inf.
Chinese Mangonels- w/exploding ammo ala gunpowder arty

Late-
Berdyshi- Halberdiers (from subjugated Steppe border provinces)
Ratniki solva- Swiss Arm. Pikemen (from subjugated Steppe border provinces)

This finishes up the major factions.

Minor factions:

These small factions will generally consist of one or two provinces, and will use those units from their closest major faction.
Most of these factions have a unit bonus located within their territory, and I may come up with a couple of surprises as well.

Swiss, Late only;- Swiss units, Italian spear units, HRE and French infantry, Fr. and HRE Early-era Kns. and Mtd. Sgts. The Swiss are very strong in infantry, but as weak in mounted units as the Italians. The Swiss have access to most infantry units of their three surrounding neighbors over the entire Homeland of those respective units. This means that the Swiss can potentially recruit troops from a very large area, but will this be enough to build an empire given their weakness in mounted units?

Crusader Kingdoms, High only
Remember that these units will be the only quality units available to crusading factions in Outremer.

Early-
Outremer Kns Templar- bonus in Jerusalem; -1 Arm than normal; Early and High eras only (BG)
Turcopoles- 60-man unit, dismounts to Turcoman Foot; bonus in Tripoli
Outremer Spearmen- Feudal Sgts.

High-
Outremer Sgts.- Teutonic Sgts.
Outremer Infantry- Italian Lt. Inf.

Late-
Outermer Kns. Hospitaller; bonus in Antioch; -2 Arm than normal
Outremer Hosp. Ft. Kns.

Ottoman and Seljuk Turks;- eras yet to be worked out. Both will use current Turkisk units.
Burgundians, Late;- Flemish Pikemen; French units
Papacy- Italian units
Lithuanians, Early and High eras (E&H);- Boyars for BG unit, Lith. Cav. instead of Polish Retainers, Polish units otherwise.
Prussians, E&H;- Lith. Cav. BG, Polish units otherwise.
Teutonic Order, H&L;- Germanic units; Teutonic Kn BGs
Swedes, all eras;- Danish units; Viking Karls BGs
Scots, all eras;- Scottish units; Highlander BGs
Irish, Early only;- Irish units; Bonnachts BGs
Serbians, H&L;- Hungarian units; Vlastela BGs
Kievans, Early only;- Russian units; Boyar BGs
Cumans, E&H;- regional units; Khazar Royal Cav BGs
Georgians, all eras;- Byzantine units; Vardariot BGs
Cilician Armenians, all eras;- Byzantine units; Vardariot BGs
Tunisian Berbers, all eras;- regional units; Saharan Cav BGs
Portuguese, and Basque, all eras;- Spanish units; Basque Inf. BGs



//////////////////////New Bow setup//////////////////////////////

Compound Bows (bow2, mtlg)

Berber Camels*
Bulgarian Brigands
Desert Archers
Futuwwas*
Janissary Archers
Janissary Infantry*
Landsknecht Archers*
Mourtatoi
Nizari
Ottoman Infantry
Szekely
Transylvanian Archers
Trebizond Archers
Turcoman Foot*

Shortbows (bow1, sbow)

Archers
Baltic Infantry*
Boyars
Byzantine Cavalry
Faris Cavalry
Genoese Sailors
Horse Archers
Kataphractoi
Mamluk Horse Archers
Ottoman Sipahi
Turcoman Horse
Turcopoles
Steppe Heavy Cavalry*

Longbows (bow3, long)

Longbowmen
Sherwood Foresters
Welsh Longbowmen
Mercian Longbowmen

BDC
08-28-2003, 10:19
Wow Lot of work gone on there, and it's paying off too. You've really improved the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lancer6969
08-28-2003, 14:23
Was all that added to the update? If it is, WOW I will download it as soon as I get home from class. Awesome job, your mod continues to amaze us. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Great Job

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Sir Robin
08-28-2003, 18:24
Argh... I won't be able to play until teusday.

Looks like a remarkable piece of work though.

Thanks Wes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Yelping Godzilla
08-28-2003, 18:58
w00t?

Just wanted everyone to know I'm still slaving away at the description work and hopefully Wes will put an updated description.txt file on the site for people to download when I reach another good milestone (like having all major factions 95% done).

If anyone has comments regarding descriptions already put in the mod, just post here. I don't pretend that they're perfect - far from it, I don't even consider them out of Alpha yet :]

EEUURAAH.

ToranagaSama
08-28-2003, 22:01
Sooo, Wes has decided to take a break---incredible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Maybe now I can get a quarter of a way into a Campaign, before there's a new version. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

That's not a complaint or anything, just a loving sarcastic snipe in the British fashion. Dude you are one of the more amazing "gaming" individuals I've ever come across. You have my admiration and respect. Thank you

Today, I *made* time to play a little MedMod. I've been playing 3.04 for about an hour and thought I report a couple of quick observations. Early Period MM, Expert, Scilian:

First, I LOVE the changes made to the Scilians so far. I'm only 20 or so Turns in, but the fact that there's 2 additional "Knight" units is a BIG help when roleplaying (Hardcore Rules). Makes for a more interesting game. Also, I haven't played the Scilians for awhile so I'm not sure, but did Tunisia always start as Rebel? The fact that it is is a big help to the Scilian player if he moves quickly and takes it before the Almo. The extra 2 units of Knights makes this MUCH easier. The strength from the two units is much appreciated, but even more, the Acumen they bring is what makes the diffierence. Of course, the above only applies if the Player limits Govenorships.

Anyway heres what I noted, the last of which is HILARIOUS and most important

1) Parchments: Spanish Militia, the picture doesn't look much very "Spanish". More like as it was intended, an Irish/Scottmans wearing "KILT" Broadsword in hand.

2) Ports: The *Tunisian* Port appears to be placed in the wrong body of water, "Gulf of Gabes". The way things are, it s/b placed on the "African Coast".

This is confirmed as in order to "move" troops out of Tunisia by Ship, a ship is needed on the African Coast. Tunisia to Sciliy requires 4 ships, African Coast, Gulf of Gabes, the sea where "Malta" is located and the sea containing Scility.

Also, when a ship is build in Tunisia, it originates on the African Coast.

Rather than moving the Port, I'd perfer changes be made to commensurate with the Port being located as is, in the Gulf of Gabes. Thanks.

Kings: Spainish, ahhhhhh, I took a screenshot if anyone needs it, but the Spanish King isn't a Knight, nor Archer, nor Spanish Militiamen---the Spanish King is a BALISTA I'm not sure if he's one of the crew or actually is the a Balista. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Wondering will I need to start a *new* campaign when the changes are in effect, or can I continue? Dumb question, but I'm enjoying this Campaign. Is there a quick way to make the Spanish King human?

~ ToranagaSama

ToranagaSama
08-28-2003, 22:04
Forget to add, that the Spanish King's stack consisted of 3 units of Balistas. I surmise that it s/b 3 units of Knights, correct?

I suppose its some sort of typo with Balista being placed for Knights. I'll go back and check if the Spanish have *any* Knights at all.

ToranagaSama
08-28-2003, 22:34
Also, meant to mention that the Main Menu version label for the MedMod is missing.

Pablo Sanchez
08-29-2003, 02:01
Quote[/b] (WesW @ Aug. 28 2003,01:09)]Shortbows (bow1, sbow)
Boyars
Byzantine Cavalry
Faris Cavalry
Kataphractoi
Mamluk Horse Archers
Ottoman Sipahi
Turcoman Horse
Turcopoles
Steppe Heavy Cavalry*
Question:
Are these units given Shortbows for balance reasons (as most of them have strong melee abilities)?

Because historically they would have used compound bows.

WesW
08-29-2003, 02:07
A new patch for the update is now posted as the 3.05 beta. If you haven't gotten 3.04, you don't need it if you have 3.03 and this new one. I'll talk about the fixes below.

Well, I haven't been worrying about updating the menu version since I am still in the beta. The normal file overwrite questions should let you kow if something goes wrong. Most everyone using the beta should already know how to unzip the mod, having used previous versions.

The port for Tunisia was put in the wrong place by CA, or else the port coordinates were entered wrong, or not updated more likely. I thought this had been fixed in v1.84. I'll try and check that later. I may have forgotten to carry it over to the VI campaign files.

As for the Sicilians, I gave them a little extra firepower to represent the Normans who came there and took the islands. I also thought they might need them to defend against their larger neighbors.

I took Tunisia away from the Almohads because they never held it historically, from what I can find. I don't think they held Algeria, either, but I left that since it is such a rich province.

The problem with the Spanish royalty is that I forgot to designate the bodyguard units as such, so the game defaulted to the first unit in the file. I didn't designate the high and late Polish units, either.

It so happens that I had started a new game as the Novgorods earlier, and when I started charting out their units building requirements, I noticed some errors, and that got me off again. I ended up spending over two hours correcting and corrolating things between the units and descriptions texts and the unit stats page of the spreadsheet, most all of it dealing with costs and building requirements. I just realized that I forgot to paste the updated units text into its spreadsheet page, but you guys can do that just as easily as I can.

I also listed the wrong column for ordering the units by faction. What you have to do is move column...AC I think it is, to the first column, and then use the sort function on it. Be sure and use the expand function message that pops up, or just select the entire file for sorting.
I also updated the unit stats page with all the building requirements for the Viking Camp units, so it should be accurate enough to print out now, except for the faction/region bonuses and some of the dismounting units.

I received an email from Fearless today asking about the disappearing corpses. Yes, this is a known problem, but right now I'm not sure if it's the mod or some glitch in the game, or the VI update more likely. It is something at the bottom of my to-do list, since it doesn't really affect anything important.

I also noticed that some of the description pics don't match the units. The Spanish units are there because I am using Viking units from their Campaign for the Spanish militia units. I have also noticed that CA seems to have used that same Highlander-type pic for the Dark Age Foot Knights, both Royal and plain.
With all the unit moving still being done, I haven't worried about this particular pic, focusing on the others, which are more noticable. It isn't really possible to get these pics completely accurate, anyway, since they become misleading if you give a cav unit a bow instead of a shield or lance, for example.
If someone cares to make out a list of badly inaccurate units, I'll take a look at finding replacements, but right now it's not a priority.

Yelping Godzilla
08-29-2003, 03:29
Quote[/b] (Pablo Sanchez @ Aug. 28 2003,20:01)]
Quote[/b] (WesW @ Aug. 28 2003,01:09)]Shortbows (bow1, sbow)
Boyars
Byzantine Cavalry
Faris Cavalry
Kataphractoi
Mamluk Horse Archers
Ottoman Sipahi
Turcoman Horse
Turcopoles
Steppe Heavy Cavalry*
Question:
Are these units given Shortbows for balance reasons (as most of them have strong melee abilities)?

Because historically they would have used compound bows.
Right, but they are mounted troops. Now, unless a unit is particularly good (like Szekely or Mongol Horse) it has shortbow stats despite using a compound bow. Before, in vanilla mtw, mounted troops used the mounted bow type, which was an inferior shortbow, regardless of the unit. The reasoning that they should have shortbow stats, despite using compound equipment, is that it's more difficult to fire from a horse. They are handicapped, much as they were in MTW.

So mounted archers are equal to naff western archers, but outclassed by eastern foot archers.

EEUURAAH.

Lancer6969
08-29-2003, 15:36
Hey Yelping,

keep up the good work on those unit descriptions... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Yelping Godzilla
08-29-2003, 16:25
Thanks. Plenty more to go.

If you, or anyone else, feels like contributing, the Italian units are totally untouched in terms of descriptions.

Historical information seems to be pretty scarce though.

EEUURAAH.

A_B
08-30-2003, 04:11
I'm playing 3.3 as the Byz. It seems the Muslims are still getting wiped out pretty quickly. What about giving them some more leadership (general stars). This could be done by province governorship (but then anyone could get it), by starting them with military academy type buildings which give generals addtitional rank (make them muslim only?).

Just some ideas. This would toughen them up without requireing making up units. Muslim strength at the time was education/organization. Wes's larger unit size help some, but some additional general stars might make them viable under the AI.

motorhead
08-30-2003, 06:55
I'm using ver. 2.04 (no units) medmod and I think I found a map bug. Checked the other medmod threads and didn't see it mentioned as being fixed. When I attack from Trebizond to Constantinople, the cursor shows it should be a river battle. But, when i get to the pre-battle screen, instead of a picture in the middle showing a preview of the map, it's just black. When i went into combat, the terrain wasn't even hilly (constan's terrain description). It was wide open rolling plains, no river. This made my fight against the Horde (and their bountiful horse archers) very interesting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . Love medmod and thanks to everyone who's put in so much blood and sweat into making it.

Old Bald Guy
08-30-2003, 14:32
Playing 3.04, Byz. A marriage screen appeared and I got an error message, "no picture available" Click OK. Unfortunately, I didn't write down which faction.

Wes, I'm confused about 3.05. "If you haven't gotten 3.04, you don't need it if you have 3.03 and this new one."

What if you have 3.04? Does it work with 04 campaigns?

ps--Does the mod make any changes to GAs?

Thanks for the fantastic improvements. It sure makes the game live on.

OBG

khurjan
08-30-2003, 19:23
my tribute to you sir for making this game mature and improve to its full potential too bad creative assembley could use some help from you if they were not too proud to ask....you are one talented guy


i must be blind sorry guys but i cant find 3.04 or 3.05 to download can someone point me in right direction i will appreciate it

Greeny
08-30-2003, 19:29
Great mod Wes, I can't wait for the final version

Bug report: The English King (in Normandy), High Period is a unit of welsh longbows. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Edit: at least I think it's a bug, in the mod desciption text it lists Welsh Longbowmen as (BG) units. An English King going into battle with a longbow at the head of a unit of Longbowmen seems a bit odd IMHO.

BDC
08-30-2003, 19:41
Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ Aug. 30 2003,14:32)]Playing 3.04, Byz. A marriage screen appeared and I got an error message, "no picture available" Click OK. Unfortunately, I didn't write down which faction.

Wes, I'm confused about 3.05. "If you haven't gotten 3.04, you don't need it if you have 3.03 and this new one."

What if you have 3.04? Does it work with 04 campaigns?

ps--Does the mod make any changes to GAs?

Thanks for the fantastic improvements. It sure makes the game live on.

OBG
The marriage issue I think is related to the Muslim nations having princesses and marrying them off - they shouldn't have any so there is no portrait for them.

WesW
08-30-2003, 22:11
To fix the Constantinople bug, change the existing line, about 1063, in the Early, High and Late texts, to this:

SetBorderInfo:: ID_TREBIZOND ID_CONSTANTINOPLE 25352 16064 0 ARID AT_EASTERN_EUROPEAN INLAND HILLY NO_RIVER

There is also a line for Constan to Trebizond that needs to be changed as well. The bug was that I used the Coast flag instead of the Inland flag. You can also set the existing River to No_River if you like.

If you have v3.04, of course you can paste 3.05 over it. You will most likely want to start new games, since 3.04 had the bugs with the Spanish BG's.
The mod is available at my webpage as always, though I have stopped high-lighting the number, and switched to the word "update".

As for BodyGuard units, I am taking a different approach to them. I am using units which better reflect the character of the faction, even if it is not always historically accurate. This means Longbows for the English, Infantry for the Danes, and different units for the Italians. Most factions still use their heavy cav unit, though.

Dan, I don't know of any way to designate general's stars.
The Muslims usually seemed to do alright AI vs AI. It was their incompetence versus the human that really prompted me to increase their unit size.
What are the rest of you guys seeing?

Greeny
08-30-2003, 22:11
BDC is right, i found a Turkish princess and when i right clicked on her a messagebox came up saying "no portrait found of this type" and showed a black box instead of a portrait. Copying the Princess subfolder in the campain\catholic directory to the campain\muslim directory should stop this happening as a workaround.

A_B
08-30-2003, 23:03
Quote[/b] (WesW @ Aug. 30 2003,16:11)]Dan, I don't know of any way to designate general's stars.
The Muslims usually seemed to do alright AI vs AI. It was their incompetence versus the human that really prompted me to increase their unit size.
What are the rest of you guys seeing?
how about giving the Egyptians and Almos the Military Academy and Marshals Palace and adding stars to some of there other offices? If others aren't noticing the Muslim countries getting wiped out, maybe it doesn't matter.

Perhaps some of the offices assicated with building the christians can't capture could be used as well (muslim only buildings).

sprucemoose
08-31-2003, 12:34
just a couple of points,

the French are now very hard maybe a little over powered,all of the muslim factions in my opinion are easily beaten even when they vastly outnumber you also i couldn't launch a crusade from Mercia even when there was no blockades or wars nearby.

other than that as the great Kevin Keagan would say

"I LOVE IT"

BDC
08-31-2003, 12:40
Do you have a port in Mercia?

I knoticed that starting in Early, HRE and the Muslims are wiped out, and the Byzantines are almost impossible to beat because of all the 9* generals. Especially as they all have bows now...

Lancer6969
08-31-2003, 16:22
Janissary Archers for the Turkish, the animation is messed up.

Lancer6969
08-31-2003, 16:31
There is a lot of things messed up with the Turkish..

And Why do Crusades take ten years to make, I know there was an increase in troops, but ten years?? Same with Royal Bodygaurds, please make the Crusades like 5 or 6 years, and the bodygaurds 1 year.

Greeny
08-31-2003, 17:15
The in battle model for Norman Segents is really screwed, the top half of the rider seems to be sideways horisontal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

|OCS|Virus
08-31-2003, 21:37
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif there is no way I'm reading all of that LoL good job though, you sure put a lot of work into that geez.

Pablo Sanchez
09-01-2003, 03:48
Quote[/b] (Lancer6969 @ Aug. 31 2003,10:31)]There is a lot of things messed up with the Turkish..

And Why do Crusades take ten years to make, I know there was an increase in troops, but ten years?? Same with Royal Bodygaurds, please make the Crusades like 5 or 6 years, and the bodygaurds 1 year.
Did you actually take a look at the units you get from a Crusade? You get the equivalent of an ICBM, so 10 years isn't too much of a handicap, IMO. I was able to totally crush the military forces of any nation in the game with a well-place crusade.

BDC
09-01-2003, 08:52
Historically crusades took a long time to create and lots of resources, so seems ok to me. And they are much better than the standard ones, I have seen crusading nations actually getting somewhere.

Old Bald Guy
09-01-2003, 12:48
.04, Byz--early, GA, hard--

When clicking on GA goals of other factions, game crashed to desktop. Not on the first faction, but on the second click...bye-bye. Have no idea why this would happen, nor do I even know if MedMods have made any changes to GA campaigns. (I hope so, as I am now playing GA, only.)

OBG

sprucemoose
09-01-2003, 16:30
Yes BDC i had the whole cabodle in Mercia port ships no blockade.

Yelping Godzilla
09-01-2003, 17:32
I've been testing the Egyptians at all three periods and here are some suggestions based on my experience. Some of the stuff here effects the other muslim factions too.

Firstly, no Muslim faction should be able to build Handgunners or Arquebusiers. Muslim armies did use gunpowder, but Hangunner and Arquebus units are the western versions of.
Instead of these, I suggest that Mamluk Handgunners be renamed Muslim handgunners and given to the three factions with their projectile type changed from handgun to Arquebus to represent the superiority of Islamic handgun technology.
Saharan Cavalry need to have their price cut. They're pretty rubbish, but quick, which is fine stats wise, but they cost too much. I reckon 200 is fairer than 275, with a similarly reduced support cost.
Egypt currently has both Nizari and Futawwa. The two units are very, very similar. Egypt did have religious warriors similar to the futawwa and Nizari, but the Nizari are named incorrectly. In fact I think the Nizari should be unbuildable by anyone until a suitable use for them can be found - meanwhile Hashishin should be increased to 60 unit size and renamed Nizari, which is a more accurate name historically.
Naptha throwers I believe would be better if they took only one turn to build and were 40 man units, but cost 350. Their speed should be pretty damn slow.

That's all for now. Anyone have any idea what could be done with the Nizari unit (renamed, obviously)?

EEUURAAH.

Lancer6969
09-01-2003, 18:03
Quote[/b] ]there is no way I'm reading all of that LoL good job though, you sure put a lot of work into that geez.

Well, you did, and nothing said was meant to be a put down, its called Constructive Criticism. I was only trying to give input.

Maybe the Ten Years does make sense, but nobody has hit why the Bodygaurds take two years to train. You can have 200 Bodygaurds in ten years, but over one thousand Crusaders.?.

That was my point.

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Yelping Godzilla
09-01-2003, 18:36
He wasn't referring to your post. He was replying to WesW's first post. The long one.

RBGs have been removed from the game in the latest update and were never in any way comparable with Crusades in the first place.

EEUURAAH.

Greeny
09-01-2003, 19:23
Quote[/b] (Old Bald Guy @ Sep. 01 2003,11:48)].04, Byz--early, GA, hard--

When clicking on GA goals of other factions, game crashed to desktop. Not on the first faction, but on the second click...bye-bye. Have no idea why this would happen, nor do I even know if MedMods have made any changes to GA campaigns. (I hope so, as I am now playing GA, only.)

OBG
I pretty sure this is because some factions have been made playable that weren't originaly, these factions don't have any Glorious Achivements programmed for them. So when you click on these factions: Sicilians, Novogrod and Golden Horde i think? the game crashes. So you'll just have to rememeber not to click on them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

A_B
09-01-2003, 20:16
OK, Some general feedback...

The new units are awesome. I've started games as Spanish, Scilians (very cool), Russians and Byzantines. All are great. The new italian and english units look great too. Stats, use, everything seems good. I haven't seen but a few peasants in any of the games. I like the new BG units as well. They seem to help the factions out quite a bit (i've only played one game with the new BG's, so my observation is limited).

Some suggestions;

Muslim units still need strenghening. Their factions have been trounced in all games i've played.

Trade seems too strong. In all the games i've played, the few trading nations (me, the Byz, and Spanish in the last game) all became uber factions compared to the rest. I just think trade as it is unbalances the game.

Unit building restrictions. I think the factions can build thier special units in too many privinces. the province building restriction hasn't slowed my games down at all. I can still field huge armies of the best quality troops. If the units were more limited as to which territories they could be built, it might help.

Just my two cents. I'm going to mod my next game to reduce trade by 20% and restict the units to about half the provinces that they can currently be built in. I'll report back if i've seen any changes.

BDC
09-01-2003, 21:47
Noticed several things in all my games (starting from early):

a) HRE is ALWAYS crushed.
b) Byz always become powerful as do the French and normally the Spanish (although the Byz more so).
c) Danes still don't expand out of Scandanavia.
d) Polish and Hungarians don't really do a lot except sit there.
e) The Italiens are always crushed but the Scilians do fine until they are excommunicated just before the High Period begins.

Yelping Godzilla
09-01-2003, 23:00
The performance of the AI factions depends a /huge/ amount on which faction the player chooses. It is almost always true that no-one bordering you will do particularly well.

The Byzantines are tough in Early though. Which is better than them getting crushed.

EEUURAAH.

WesW
09-02-2003, 03:52
This is odd, since in my game the Turks have driven the Byz out of Constan within a couple dozen turns. I haven't checked out the other Muslims.

The HRE always has a tough time, even when we play as them. I could add more units to their starting positions.

The Poles and Huns have a defensive personality, which explains their behavior.

I'll look at the Italian starting positions, but I don't really understand why they keep getting crushed.

I'll be interested to see what happens with the reduced trade, A_B. I have added a good many trade items, scattered around the map. In the original game, all of the AI factions became poverty-stricken with the first few turns of the game, and never got out of it. It took a lot of work in the first version of the mod to get them out of this behavior.
If the same two or three factions keep becoming dominant, then that's a problem, but I would actually rather have a couple of different factions become very powerful in each game to provide a better challenge to the human.

Greeny is right about the GA's. The factions are the Swiss, Novgorods, Horde and Burgundians.

I want to add GA's for all factions, but I am not sure how to do it. I would really welcome someone to step up and configure the GA's to match the new Homeland provinces.

I made the changes to the gunpowder units you suggested.
I have raised the men in the Naptha unit to 20, and made them as slow as Halbardiers. I also increased the range of Grenades somemore. I figured up the probable affect of this unit, and placed it at about the price you suggested for the 60-man unit. 20 Napthas are going to be potentially devastating to massed infantry, and then there is the morale hit.
As for Saharan Cav, remember that they have excellent speed.
I have gone ahead and increased the Hashishin to 60 men. I made them basically Sherwood Foresters, with +1 att and -1 def, without Longbows but with excellent speed. Oddly enough, these changes ended up making them the same cost as before.
As for Nizari and Futuwwa, I think that they are quite different. Futuwwas have bows, while Nizari have much better melee stats.

The section below is from a reply of mine to a letter from YG which made some other suggestions.

I had just finished some changes to the Lith. Cav. when I read your letter. I don't know what I was thinking before, but now they are available to any Christian or Pagan faction, in all periods. I took away their shield, and made the bow changes you suggested (to the shortbow). My cost formula read 325 when I had finished, which is what the unit cost in the first version. This is 50 more than Mtd. Sgts., and seems right to me.

Thanks for the Peshtsi info. I always forget that there is that extra folder to make. (This will correct the blank pics.)

The Dobrzyn and Dienstleuten changes are certainly doable. I am going to give the Dobrzyn a cav bonus of 2 and 2 added to their current stats, and the Dienstleuten a bonus of 1 and 1 added to their current stats.
(This has been an ongoing discussion between us about giving these units a bonus versus other cavalry units. They will lose their lances in favor of a sword, and the Dobrzyn lose a point of attack to account for their reduced emphasis on infantry combat. I just felt that leaving their attack at 4 and adding the 2 vs cav would make them a little too powerful for a high era unit.)

I just went through the Deadpage file, and found that I had not changed the Crusader Teutonic Sgts. entry to MM Teutonic Sgts. I also updated some of the outdated settings, as well as I could remember. I also added back in the units I had deleted for the mod, so that the units and deadpage texts should have the same number of entries. I made the added units rebel-only, just to spice up the game a little.

I also lowered the priority of Spearmen to extremely low, and made significant reductions to all other spear units.

I corrected some price anomalies with javelin units. The actual price for the infantry jags is higher than that shown in the spreadsheet.

I have also made additional corrections to the costs of a number of other units which had gotten out of whack along the way.
I integrated the VC units into the regular units, and corrected some outdated stats in the spreadsheet.

I changed the Chinese Mangonels over to a mortar. I guess that the unit which shows up on the battlefield is determined by the projectile type, and the unit uses the one for the mortar.

I switched the Novgorod ships back to the northern European list.

Keep the reports coming everyone. I'll check things out to make sure the game won't crash, and probably post a new update tomorrow.

Yelping Godzilla
09-02-2003, 14:06
Ah I thought the Nizari still had bows.

Quick bit of history - The Ismailis, Hashishin and Nizari are basically all the same lot as far as I can see, working for the mysterious Old Man Of The Mountain. They were religious seperatists so they didn't get on terribly well with Shia or Sunni muslims in the area, nor were the apreciated by Frankish arrivals or the Byzantines. In fact I'm farily sure they tried to kill the Byzantine head honcho a couple of times. They were crushed by the High period, effectively, but did come back later to declare a holy war on the Mongols as they invaded, sending huge numbers of assassins after the Khan and his sub-generals. When he found out about this, he took a big chunk of the horde and got crusader on their asses. No more Ismailis after that.

I think the Hashishin therefore should be renamed Nizari and a more suitable name found for the current Egyptian Nizari who are melee guys. In fact I think for the time being they can simply be changed to Egyptian Infantry.

Although the Ismailis warred with both Egyptians and Seljuk Turks, both should be able to get them as buildable mercenaries in the Early and Late periods.

Random other suggested name changes:
Trebizond Archer to Psiloi (means archer).
Gallowglass to Galloglaich (might as well get it accurate now we've sorted out where they come from).


In other news Wes has given me the ok to make a units addon pack for medmod 3. The pack will be exactly what it says on the tin, just added units, nothing more nothing less. This way it should bolt onto the main mod without disrupting it too much and of course will be completely optional.

So far I've come up with these rough ideas for added units.

Mozarab Infantry (Almohads - Early only) 100
Mail armoured, medium quality infantry armed with heavy spears. Recruited from the South of spain, commonly Andalusian.

Staff Slingers (Spanish - Early, High) 60
Quite common in militia forces during the Iberian conflict. No armour, poor quality but good light infantry killers.

Bidets (Spain, Aragon - Early, High) 60
Light jav/dart infantry of pretty poor quality.

Moorish Heavy Cavalry (Almohads - All periods) 50
Heavy lance cav, good quality, many of them Grenadine troops.

Berber Horse (Muslim, Morocco/Tunisia region - All) 50
They didn't just use camels. These are light jav cav, slightly worse than Jinets. Possible Tunisian Berber RBG.

Latinikon (Byzantine - Early, High) 40
Buildable mercenary Norman Knights. Usually from Sicily.

Trapezitoi (Byzantine - All) 60
Non mercenary light jav cav. Poor quality all around.

Peltastoi (Byzantine - All) 60
Light jav infantry. Like Trapezitoi, they are also pretty crap quality.

Highland Archer (Scotland - High, Late) 60
Buildable by anyone who can get Clansmen. Mail armoured short bow archers of good quality.

Ghaznavid Heavy Infantry (Seljuk turks - Early) 75
Mercenaries and remnants from the fall of the Ghaznavid Seljuks in what is now Afghanistan. Mail/Scale armoured, large shields, very heavy spears (anti armour), unusally high quality buildable mercs.

Askari Cavalry (Seljuk turks - Early, High) 50
New royal bodyguards of Turks in Early, armed with sword, shield and bow. Medium armour. In many ways an upgraded and far more professional tucoman horse. Good quality.

Dailami Infantry (Seljuk, Egyptians - Early, high) 125
Buildable Mercenaries from further east. Armed with large shields and Zupins, their famous spears which are bladed at both ends. They get less defense bonus vs cav, but more offense. Fast moving and ok to good quality but light armour. In some ways, mini-halberdiers.

Agulani Cavalry (Seljuk - Early, High) 50
Assault cavalry that have heavy (for the area) metallic armour for both rider and horse. Use sword and shield. Quite slow for cavalry, but generally good quality.

Ahdath Militia (Seljuk, Egypt - High, Late) 125
These are civil militias that originated in Syria of standard spearman quality. They are very cheap and plentiful, the advantage of having them over spearmen is their added size and their added bow. They'd actually use compound bows, but with little skill, so they get the shortbow type.

Aznauri Cavalry (Georgia - All) 40
Noble heavy cavalry, possibly Feudal knight stats. The new georgian royal bodyguard in all eras. Might also get bows.

Aznauri Spear (Georgia - All) 60
Noble spearmen. As such very high quality, perhaps the best true spear unit in the game. They are smaller than other spear regiments however.

Al Halqa Cavalry (Egypt - High, Late)
Elite heavy lance cavalry made up of free men rather than slave warriors. Medium/Heavy armour, excellent fighting ability, very disciplined. Their horses are specially trained to not fear camels. They are very high cost.

Akinci Raiders (Ottoman - Late)
Superb raiding cavalry, medium/light armour, blistering speed, contain within their ranks Delil, the crazed assault troops of the raider parties. Armed with both swords and bows. The special forces of their day.


That's it for now. If you have any suggestions for the pack, please make them but remember it is a way off yet, because right now I'd rather help in completing the main Medmod. It's purely in the research stage and I make no promises regarding its completion.

Also, Wes, if any of these units seem like something you'd like to put in the Main mod, feel free to do so. I don't mind what ends up going in the addon pack really.

EDIT: More ideas added.

EEUURAAH.

Spino
09-02-2003, 21:10
Good stuff YelpingGodzilla. I'm working on a mod at the moment and intend on incorporating Daylami Infantry into it. The Daylami were also known for using the Zhupin as a heavy throwing spear and would hurl it prior to making contact with the enemy. For hand to hand combat the Daylami were known for using their axes. Given Egypt and Turkey's serious lack of decent infantry units in MTW (Saracen's excepted) I am inclined to make the Daylami a more effective version of the underpowered Ghazi unit; poorly armored of course but with the same large shield, a much better Defense rating, lower Morale and a comparable if not slightly degraded Charge rating. The Daylami need those armor piercing axes if they're to make a serious impression upon Catholic infantry.

Besides, Egypt and Turkey already have access to Saracen Infantry which is an excellent spear unit.

We must be using the same sources (Osprey books) because I am also considering creating an Askari Royal Bodyguard unit for the Seljuk Turks However, Seljuk heavy cavalry should not be considered simply as upgraded Turcomens The Seljuk armies of the Early and High eras may have been overwhelmingly Turcoman in composition but they always had a small but highly effective core of professional soldiers (Ghulams, mercenaries, etc.) which were well armed and armored thanks to the Iranian armaments industry. Mail and lamellar armored riders atop barded or lamellar armored heavy horses were not an uncommon sight in the professional core of Seljuk armies.

The Blind King of Bohemia
09-02-2003, 21:16
Yelping Godzilla, would you hold it against me if i used a few of the unit ideas for my mod? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Lancer6969
09-03-2003, 00:05
Quote[/b] ]He wasn't referring to your post. He was replying to WesW's first post. The long one.


Ok, I wish I had a lawyer too. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Lancer
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Yelping Godzilla
09-03-2003, 00:29
Of course not. They aren't exactly my intellectual property, they are just a distillation of history to MTW units via one sleepy gamer.

So go ahead and pinch whatever you want. I'm interested in seeing how your mod turns out, so any way I can help is fine with me.

I don't have any Osprey books (although I wouldn't mind some). I get most of my information from old university stoning buddies and a myriad of outdated and quite random history books I pick up from charity shops.

The Saracen Infantry are good spearmen, technically, but in practice they are defensive troops. I figured Dailami would fill a kind of offensive light halberdier slot, ripping up weaker cav and still being able to take out enemy spear units. They're also going to be pretty damn fast. They could be useful against catholic units, but I won't be designing them as a foil unit. In fact they'd do better against other Muslim armies.

One of the weird things about Dailami Infantry is that there are accounts of them being an elite guard unit and of them being poor quality light infantry. I think at a certain point under Egyptian rule they were particularly good.

I know that the Seljuks did have some excellent Lamellar armoured cavalry, but they tended to be very few in number, mostly Ghulam and often more common the further East you go. This seriously reduced their attraction as an RBG unit in medmod, where RBG units must also be standard units and therefore have attainable build requirements. When I say Askari will be upgraded Turcoman horse, I don't mean a slight upgrade. They're going to be pretty damn handy. However they won't be overpowered, as they will be early troops.

Also: The Agulani cav will be filling a heavy assault role. I don't want the two units ending up too similar.

I've edited my post, because looking back I did undervalue them in terms of description. Rest assured I know how good they were :]

Plenty more ideas coming.

EEUURAAH.

The Blind King of Bohemia
09-03-2003, 19:55
Seriously dude you should try to get your hands on some, they are wicked, especially if Angus McBride is doing the colour plates, he is an amazing military artist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif