Respawning Factions

[Quokka]

In my campaign as the Almohads, Early, Hard, the Spanish respawned in Portugal in 1115 with a massive army of Feudal Knights etc. Firtsly its a bit dodgy that they can respawn with units many times better than they ever fielded or that anyone else can field even now (1141). Secondly how much cash do these factions have? They only had Portugal and the armies must have been costing a fortune to upkeep but by the time I got the armies in place to take them out Portugal had been significantly improved. How could this have happened?

The Army:
20 Royal Knights
120 Feudal Knights
600 Feudal Foot Knights
180 Archers
600 Feudal Sergeants

Improvements:
Fort
+20% Farming
Town Guard
Spearmaker
Bowyer

While none of them are very expensive individually they do represent 1600 Florins over 12 years and I thought the upkeep from the army would have drained them dry.
I don't think it took 16 years to take them out either...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In Shogun the AI cheated with money, they could go way into debt, and I assume it's the same in medieval.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Shinano @ Aug. 31 2003,16:43)]In Shogun the AI cheated with money, they could go way into debt, and I assume it's the same in medieval.
yep giving the Ai a financial bonus is one of oldest tricks with the AI in Strategy games to even up the score with the skilled human player.

[bighairyman]

every respawning faction has huge armies and i hate it, i only have peasants for defence, so when a faction respawn near my provinces, it always take a huge chunk of my empire before i can muster a good army to defen my self http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[Oaty]

This would only be a lucky guess but I'm thinking they get 8000 florins on a respawn since every faction gets to start with 8000 florins so it would only be fair on a respawn to give them 8000 florins so that high upkeep will still hurt them but buy them some time to mak a positive cash flow. Another thing is with Portugal is a nice rich province and if they were lucky enough to have 1 unit come in there with 6 accuman or even better a 9 accuman would probably give them just enough to equal there upkeep.

[Quokka]

I could see how they got 8000 Florins on respawn, but there is no way undeveloped Portugal even with a 6 acumen governor could be producing 1000 Florins which is still a long way short of the upkeep for the army I listed, not to mention the money they forked out for construction.

[el_slapper]

This is also why I NEVER use peasants in my armies, EVEN as garrison. At least militia sergents. Peasants are even the lone unit I ever disband...

[rolin]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

A few days ago, the french empire respawned in two provinces. (Champagne and Provence) I caught their King and a lot of leaders in the Champagne the same term, and let them do their business in the Provence. I got about 25.000 florins for ransom http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I'm pretty sure respawning sides have much more money than 8K.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Actually when you pay ransom you can go in debt.

Quote[/b] ]In Shogun the AI cheated with money, they could go way into debt, and I assume it's the same in medieval.

You can also go in debt, just can't buy new stuff. Did the AI in shogun manage to buy stuff while into debt? I never noticed this (mainly since i don't like huge battles and attack fast enough to never get in debt).

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

I think in Shogun on expert the AI would automatically get free units every year (but I am not sure about this).

Anyway returning factions get alot more than 8,000fl.

My France collapsed into civil war and both the Germs and England reappeared. My (loyal) armies on the border with Byz were able to cruch the Germs, despite there high quality troops - the general king was crap. I abandoned Spain to knock out the English and they were reduced to Scotland with some 3000 men having paid some 17,000 fl ransom, but still managed to develop Scotland a bit before I invaded.

This has been discussed before - there was one suggestion I liked that we should get a warning from spies like so and so heir has reappeares and is gathering an army. THat would give us time to prepare. The other thing that would be good is if the reappearing faction instead of good troops got a good king to get the valour bonus.

I think the huge amount of money is ok so htat the faction has a real chance at re-establishing themselves.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Quote[/b] (Portuguese Rebel @ Sep. 01 2003,06:46)]Actually when you pay ransom you can go in debt.

Quote[/b] ]In Shogun the AI cheated with money, they could go way into debt, and I assume it's the same in medieval.

You can also go in debt, just can't buy new stuff. Did the AI in shogun manage to buy stuff while into debt? I never noticed this (mainly since i don't like huge battles and attack fast enough to never get in debt).
Yes the AI in shogun could spend money while in debt.

[Oaty]

Anyway returning factions get alot more than 8,000fl
Quote[/b] ]

Well 1 thing to look at is the difficulty level my guess is on normal it will be 8 k but on expert the A.I is probably allowed to spend money while in debt hence the reason being expert, now there should at least be a cutoff though

I could see how they got 8000 Florins on respawn, but there is no way undeveloped Portugal even with a 6 acumen governor could be producing 1000 Florins which is still a long way short of the upkeep for the army I listed, not to mention the money they forked out for construction.

Have you ever noticed how much money can be forked out of portugal with a high accuman governor with a 4 accuman governor and no trading post and no farm upgrade it will be pumping out about 600 florins if I'm right. My only guess is that everyone wants to put there 1 accuman 9 dread governor there. With the farm upgrade there wich takes 2 years brings it up to 720 now thats about 300 florins they are losing each year in upkeep wich will take a while to drain there treasury if they respawned with 8k. I'm guessing the upkeep of that army was about 1100 florins and thats a rough guess but I think I'm close on that figure. Now throw in that 6 accuman governor if they were lucky and they are close to a standstill on profit verses upkeep. I always say the heck with dreadlords in Portugal as the taxes from a high accuman governor there will offset (and then some) the slightly higher upkeep in army you need there.