The Golden Horde

[Oaty]

I was wondering if it would even be possible to give the golden horde a better chance by instead of knowing that they came in at 1230 to give them a varied arrival time between 1220 and 1240 this way it would be more of a surprise like it historically was instead of camping out there knowing whats coming

[Oaty]

Another thing I was wondering but forgot to mention it would be nice is if you could give them replacements since once there heavy cavalry is gone its gone for good because I dont think they have a tech tree to build em but I could be wrong. What I was looking at was giving them 1 or 2 heavy cavalry each year that comes in at khazar or the closest province that they own there at the time and maybe one mongol warrior. I did just install wesmod2.04 this weekend so does the wesmod add that tech tree in or was it already there or does it still not exist

[Si GeeNa]

oaty,

Nice ideas...

Ive always played the Muslim factions more frequently than the Catholic ones, always knew the GH were coming. But i have to pretend and feign ignorance so that i can be shocked with their sudden entry at 1230.

*What?? There's an enemy in our backyard I thot we cleared it long ago*

We have hindsight... we know they come in at 1230 and this means that many human players simply anticipate the event... If only they realise the greater potential of non-anticipation...

But that's only me and my *feigned surprise*

BTW, the last time, i did that, they almost undid me...

They got my Turkish Faction into 3-4 Civil wars and the loss of 5 provinces. Indeed, i learnt well from them. I came back stronger after my hanging back in Rum and Lesser Armenenia for 10 years.

But i think people will always have a way of dealing with such problems. They should just enjoy the process of not dealing with them pro-actively...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Quokka]

I like the idea of a varied range of entry. As it is, it's too easy to prepare for them.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Sep. 01 2003,19:44)]I like the idea of a varied range of entry. As it is, it's too easy to prepare for them.
I do like to prepare for them, but not necessarily to a major faction-shattering extent.

I like to think that some small warning would have been comming about the Mongols as people would have been fleeing from them, possibly to the west.

I often let the Mongols establish themselves in a few provinces before I move in for the kill.

Still the Mongols are NOT easy, even if we do prepare for them

[The Last Emperor]

I am with oaty on both points, it will be less preditable for us if their invasion date is set along a wider range of time period than specifically on 1230, maybe the impact will be harder when the Horde do hit Europe. And adding a few messages like civilians fleeing from the Steppe as T_E has suggested would be a nice prelude to the actual invasion.

The Horde also dont seem to regenerate their units after they set foot on Europe. It seems to be a disadvantage to them as they usually get tied down by revolts and counter-attacks by other fractions after a few years. Maybe the Horde can be programed to receive a small number of re-enforcement for every success they acheived-just like what happen in STW for the mongols invasion campaign.

[The_Emperor]

Great ideas from a fellow Emperor... The general lack of Mongol reinforcements is a bit of a downer.

However I find that the Mongols strength lies in their re-emergences. If you kill the Khan and let the rest of his army run off or kil you, chances are he will respawn with a bigger army.

That seems to be the best way to get More Mongols on the map

[NewJeffCT]

I don't know if it worked or not, as I wiped them out too soon... but, I did mod the requirements for the Horde's main troops down a notch or two. I think Mongol Horse Archers require a bowyers' guild and a horse breeder's guild, while the heavy cavalry requires a master horse breeder and maybe something else.

Of course, I also modded their unit sizes up (50 for HC, 60 for the horse archers) and lowered their support costs.

[DemonArchangel]

I made a whole bunch of horde unit mods, such as chinese handgunners, chinese cho ko nus, vietnamese spearmen, manchu broadswordsmen, captive human shields, chinese siege engines/rocket launchers and of course the mangudai (Yes i'm ripping off AOE but who cares&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Revenant69]

Honestly i think the varied Golden Horde appearance would not change the way people prepare for that threat. Here is my reason behind it.

If you know that the Horde appears betwen the years 1220- 1240 (or whatever), and this info would be eventually divulged by the game gurus, then you would prepare for them assaulting you at 1220. Wouldn't you? I mean it is only logical to do so. Heck, everytime i faced off the horde in SP I was ready for it by 1205, the remaining 25 years were used to train new core "insurance" units - just to make sure the Horde was driven off. It is not hard to get 6000 - 10000 troops + mercs by 1205 assuming you start playing on Early (and these troops be of good enough quality to crush the Horde). Even with all the preparations the Horde is NOT an easy foe to defeat.

It could be my style of play, but i am usually always ready for the worst. Remember the old saying "If you want Peace, prepare for War" and use the "7 fat years followed by 7 lean years" approach to the game. It served me well so far.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

PS DemonArchangel those units sound really intriguing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I havent tried any MTW mods yet but i wouldnt mind getting hold of your mod, if nothing else then to satisfy my curiosity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I like the human shields...sounds cruel.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]However I find that the Mongols strength lies in their re-emergences. If you kill the Khan and let the rest of his army run off or kil you, chances are he will respawn with a bigger army.


Yeah I couldnt agree with you more Emperor. This reminds me of that Russian PBM campaign http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I do think it would be cool if Mongols could build units or get constant reinforcements. Or even better, castles would fall without sieges sometimes due to the infamous brutality of these steppe-men. But hey they are fine the way they are now IMHO.

PS I am currently preparing to face the Horde in my Turkish SP campaign (the year is 1204). Should prove to be lots of fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Quokka]

I think a varied entry time would change the way people prepare for the threat. Having a 10,000 man army rady for a threat you knowwill appear in 1230 in Khazar is very different from having one ready for an event anywhere from 1220-1240.
Revenant69, I bet you don't have those troops on exclusive Mongol patrol in Khazar only from 1205 onwards, but have a build up in the general area that can congregate at the right time. You said yourself you follow the "7 fat years followed by 7 lean year", what if it turned out to be 27 lean years? Could you support that army for that long?
I'd even be up for some really wild time swings. If the Mongols hit in 1205 they'd catch everybody with their pants down. Then it would be very interesting to fight them without access to the better troops.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Revenant69 @ Sep. 03 2003,06:10)]I like the human shields...sounds cruel.
It was, During their China campaigns The Mongols were known to take the prisoners in an earlier battle, dress them as Mongols and send them against enemy fortifications as human shields... This also had the effect of making their force appear much larger than it actually was.

Maybe this should be another option of "what to do with prisoners" besides just plain Ransom, Execution/Enslavement.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]Revenant69, I bet you don't have those troops on exclusive Mongol patrol in Khazar only from 1205 onwards

Actually I do believe it or not. For me Khazar acts as a central focus point for all the troops. I always build a port there and by that time i usually have a decent command of the seas. So if a problem arises in any of my provinces i just bring some of the Khazar forces to quell it and then return them back.

Supporting large armies isnt difficult either, usually by 1205 my economy is churning out major profits. Say for the sake of argument that i make 20k a year. If for those 30years or even some years b4 1205 my economy produces 1k it is not a big deal as i already have a sizeable warchest. I am even able to support large armies of mercenaries.

Anyhow, my point is htat people will just ready themselves for the first year that the mongols could appear in and it would be the same as them just appearing in 1230.

Cheers m8s

[tuopaolo]

Quote[/b] (DemonArchangel @ Sep. 02 2003,11:59)]I made a whole bunch of horde unit mods, such as chinese handgunners, chinese cho ko nus, vietnamese spearmen, manchu broadswordsmen, captive human shields, chinese siege engines/rocket launchers and of course the mangudai (Yes i'm ripping off AOE but who cares&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Are your mods available for download?

I'd be especially interested in modding chinese cho ko nus into the game. But did the Mongols actually use Chinese troops like cho ko nus?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

If you go to the dungeon and the thread My Mods Website by me, you will get a link, go to the unit page and there are pictures of the Korean units from MI in Medieval.

[DemonArchangel]

i can't upload just yet, cuz i'm a tad too shy about it, maybe i will later.