1 millions florins to negatives...

[NewJeffCT]

Has this happened to anybody at all? I was rolling along as the HRE and had close to 1 million florins in the bank. (I snagged Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Prussia, Pomerania & Flanders early, as well as a Crusade into Antioch…) Since the money was rolling in each turn, I never really trimmed down or disbanded old, obsolete units. The world was generally at peace. Then, suddenly, the Golden Horde arrives and the other two big sea powers, the English and the Byzantines decide to attack me as well. Within a little more than 20 years, I went from over 900,000 florins to negatives. I guess all those low acumen kings contributed as well, and the upkeep costs on the hordes Feudal Knights and Chivalric Knights I had. Kind of frightening to see my florin count taking a 50-60,000 florin hit each time. I had to delay all my big building projects and start building taverns, town guards, bowyers, siege engineers (which I never build&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I guess I was also lazy as well, as I'm usually pretty good at managing my money.

[Praetorian]

Lol, good story, I enjoyed reading it.

[Qilue]

Quote[/b] (Praetorian @ Sep. 02 2003,13:02)]Lol, good story, I enjoyed reading it.
So did I. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Here's a navy tip - never ever allow another faction to have more ships than you. In fact, have more ships than all the others combined. Then when one of the AI factions decide they don't want a navy any more (they attack you), oblige them by wiping out their fleet in one turn. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

This however makes them hate you even more, not that it matters since you own the seas.

[|OCS|Virus]

aahhh from riches to rags huh? LoL tough break there, how did it turn out, or are you still workin' on it?

[Quokka]

Thats surely one of the perils of surviving on trading. I had a similar thing happen, nothing as drastic, 220,000 went from +10,000 to -10,000 when the Byzantines and Italians attacked my Spanish empire. I got all the way down to 6000 before the wars stopped and I had a pretty trim empire before, but was building up for the GH. I had to keep building for that reason and to replace the losses I was taking. Scary as the treasury plummets, I thought I was going to lose way more than I did, Crete, Cyprus and Rhodes to rebellions when I stripped their garrisons.
But I don't see how to manage without a trade empire, the armies required cost more than the provinces provide as I am finding out as the Almohads. Trade is ahrd to get off the ground for them as nowhere can really be spared for ships.

[hoom]

Its a pain when that happens.

Thats why I always build my main economy (farms/mines) as much & soon as I can.

Sometimes you have to go through all your armies disbanding the weaker units & excessive numbers of expensive units just to bring down the costs.

It does however give you an incentive to upgrade your armies.

Sometimes a risk-it-all expansion is the only answer.
3-4 new territories = new income + lower support (dead troops) and if you're lucky, you'll actually shorten your perimeter by a province & can disband an entire army.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]...you'll actually shorten your perimeter by a province & can disband an entire army.

Ahhh I NEVER disband a unit other than a peasant or an almost dead merc unit. Why disband your low tech units when you can send them to their doom with that crack brained prince of yours???

I always keep track of my troop qualities and send off lesser troops to fight fruitless battles or battles of attrition. You never know, they may capture a province and lose half of their numbers - so all in all you just saved on their upkeep AND gained a new income source.

I also use low quality troops to besiege enemy castles. Why waste Kataphracts when you can waste pesants.

Just my 2 cents. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[NewJeffCT]

I think part of the problem is that the HRE has such LONG borders to defend - the Italians to the South, Polish & Hungarians to the East, (and the Byzantines were eventually in all the Novgorad provinces, thus threatening my Sweden and Pomerania...) and then the French and English to my West.

I'm still working on it managing my money, but I've trimmed down my armies and am slightly positive again... and, just about every province has a tavern now.

A few times, after Crusades were over, I was left with several hundred peasants and fanatics and their related upkeep costs. Of course, if you crusade into Antioch and are surrounded by heathens, you have to keep a good amount of troops there because it is such a valuable trade province.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Quote[/b] (NewJeffCT @ Sep. 03 2003,09:11)]I'm still working on it managing my money, but I've trimmed down my armies and am slightly positive again... and, just about every province has a tavern now.
What benefit does the tavern give? You can recruit mercenaries, but are there any financial or happiness benefits? As far as I know, a highly developed province will not attract any mercs any way.

[Snowhobbit]

Actually the Inn gives you the ability to recruite mercenaries, i think a tavern provides a +10 happines bonus.

[NewJeffCT]

What I meant was that instead of building Master Foundries (2000 florins?), Fortresses (8000), Master Metalsmiths, Baronial Estates, improving my farmland 80% (2500) etc. – I was forced to build cheaper buildings like taverns (500 florins over 4 years), siege engineers (200 over 2), horse farmers in Switzerland (200 over 2), etc. until I got back up to positives. I also had to disband a lot of peasants, urban militia & spearmen and trimmed down some garrisons. This led to a few rebellions.

Taverns are fine and all, but late in the game I would rather have a few culverins and some swiss armored pikemen on my side when I have to besiedge Constantinople...

[HopAlongBunny]

Taverns are fine and all, but late in the game I would rather have a few culverins...(quoted from above)

Taverns, Inns, churches etc add happiness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif If you don't need stacks of peasants keeping the population in line, you save money thru smaller garrisons; its just theory but I think it aids in preventing rebellions

Gotta love a game where you can "build" happiness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

My min build in a province is border fort, inn, tavern, church

[NewJeffCT]

If it is not a "sea" province, I always go for watch tower, border fort, improved farmland 20%, fort, town watch, (then to bowyer/spearmaker/horse farmer depending on any possible valour bonus for the province) keep, church/mosque.

[Kristaps]

The best happiness solution I have seen is SPIES. Have a bunch of them in the most rebellious provinces and the all the garrison you will ever need will be a unit of 100 peasants.

Cheers,

[NewJeffCT]

True - I like to have at least a bishop, emissary, assassin and spy in each province - hopefully more than one of each. In key provinces (where I keep my king and the surrounding provinces) I also have at least a few of each and hopefully at least one cardinal... or, the equivalent alim and imam if I play a muslim faction.

[Qilue]

What benefit is there to having an emissary in each province, beyond attracting foreign assassins with the resulting improvment to your own assassin or spy?

I have 1 spy and 2 assassins, but no priests or such. Btw, unless VI changed it, a tavern doesn't add happiness, but a brothel does (+10). Similiarly, a monestry has faith propigation, but a reliquery doesn't.

[SirGrotius]

I hope this is not too off topic, but some of you mentioned keeping spies in your own provinces to uphold the peace. well, i partook of the converse of that statement by sending about ten spies into an enemy territory (france's flanders) which did not have a high loyalty rating. flanders did have a watch tower. anyway, all ten of my spies were captured in one year. that's a rather high fatality rate did they have counterspies or counterassassins or what

[hoom]

Huh. I had not realised that taverns helped with happiness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif new addition to my personal 'must build in every province' list http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Odyssey of War]

Shall we say OVEREXTENDED

[NewJeffCT]

Yes, I was overextended. I solved that problem by picking on a few smaller powers and gobbling up their provinces, and also launching crusades to valuable lands like Tripoli - which was good since I already had Antioch. But, by warring against a few smaller powers, I was able to thin my armies out a bit and also gain some florins through conquest (and eventual farmland development & trade development)

I just got into the late Era and I am now comfortably positive and probably have about 80% of the map - it's just a matter of controlling the rebellions and staying on the good side of the Pope until the end - excommunication against the HRE seems to be devastating.