Advice on Battle of Acre pls

[Hurin_Rules]

I'm playing the Saladin campaign and just can't seem to win the battle of Acre. I have tried just fighting the Crusaders, pulling back one wing behind the tents, pulling back both wings and the centre behind the tents, charging the crusaders, trying to outflank them, etc. etc. I must have fought this battle nearly 10 times. How in the heck do you beat so many charging knights when you've only got two Saracen infantry?

[Oaty]

Well I never played that campaign but this may be of some help. Take your worst troops and put them in hold formation to suck up the cavalry charge, then use your better troops to flank down on them and make piecemeal of the cavalry.

[Mount Suribachi]

The official strategy guide has this to say on the Battle of Acre

"Its almost impossible to hold your ground if you keep your starting position. Therefore order your forces to the top of the hill and await the onslaught of the enemy attack. Here you should have the advanage off height. Fight a adefensiive battle, keeping your forces facing downhill in good support positions"

Sounds like pretty standard tacticts to me but it may be of some help.

[frogbeastegg]

:froggy rides up at the head of a cavalry unit:

Never fear, froggy is here I've got a replay of this battle so if you want I can email it to you and you can gasp at my brilliance as I finish the battle I made it a while ago after someone asked for help on the official forums and no one else could finish the battle so I went and played this impossible battle - and won on my first go http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Basically the strategy guide is wrong, you have to charge your crappy infantry at the start and send your cavalry around the flanks to roll up the line. If you try to retreat you will get massacred, as the enemy are just too close for you to pull back. The end is quite touch and go and it was a close victory which would have been easier if I had paused more often and given better orders to certain units (I left a unit of cavalry chasing some other cavalry for most of the battle even though it achieved nothing). If you watch the replay and correct these mistakes you should have no problems.

If you want the replay post an email address and I'll send it out.

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ Sep. 06 2003,15:14)]Basically the strategy guide is wrong
*isn't at all surprised*

[Cheetah]

Yup, there is no time to retreat. Basically a silly deployment IMHO. What is the point setting up the two armies so close to each other? (not to mention that they put peasants into the first line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif) So, feel free to use the pause (P) button as frequently as you need otherwise it is close to impossimble to win.

[Cheetah]

Oh BTW, you have 3 saracens http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif a muwahid and of course your ghulam bodyguard, each of them can hold well against cavs . Then you have a ghulam, a kwarizmian, a ghazi and two mameluk cav.archers to flank http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hurin_Rules]

Well, I feel better. At least others can testify to the difficulty of this battle. Man, it is a hard one.

Froggy, I'd love to see that replay. My email address is Zarathustraca@yahoo.com.

Thanks again for all the advice. The crummy thing is you have to win the Saladin battle to unlock the Richard Lionheart campaign.

[frogbeastegg]

Hurin_Rules - You should have mail. Enjoy

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya's Guide to Winning Acre
or "How to Introduce Jesus to the Infidels"

Sure, difficulties arise when you try to move mountains with your bare hands after rationalizing that it's possible. Some things are not meant for the meek human mind to grasp. That is why you mortals have "faith". It is supposed to give you the will to fight a battle you have no hope of winning and STILL be optimistic that you CAN win. And, in the 1-in-a-trillion chance you should pull it off, well, it must have been because God willed it, right?

So, now that we got the theory out, the question is then, how do you apply it, in this case, to the battle of Acre? (Of course, this tactic can be applied to ANY battle, TW, real or imaginary). So, listen up and prepare to be enlightenned...

Vanya sez do the following:

1. Gather your men around your general and have them pray in silence as the general preaches once battle commences for about a minute. Try to get everybody involved so you can uplift the spirits of all with your sermon. To accomplish this, make sure all units are facing the general and that the overall formation is as compact as possible. One non-believer can ruin the whole party for everybody involved.

2. Now here is the interesting part: the enemy will see your mob, and will think you are an easy prey In fact, they will spread out and TRY to hit you from many directions at once. This is the act of foolish heretics, indeed Once they spread out and approach your pious mob of Heaven's warriors, break from your prayers and charge all-out at their center lines. To do this, select ALL units and double-click on the enemy general's icon/banner. Your compact mob will pack more men per meter than the opposition, and you will easily slaughter all those of heathen faith before you.

With the middle now getting their Time Share pitch from Jesus, your mob is free to save the remaining scattered heretics that meander aimlessly through the fields.

Should your soldiers get pulled into a theological discourse by wily enemy soldiers, be swift to tell them the heretic they are arguing with is the DEVIL'S MINION Make sure all your men understand that the ONLY way to save heretics is to purify them with their holy blades (that, and fire or torture, but during battle, simple slaughter will do).

Vanya tells this to you in hopes that you will apply this tactic in moderation. Otherwise, what will MP games come down to if everybody were to do this? I mean, everybody would end up talking to Jesus, and every game would be a tie SO, be careful with this for the sake of balance and gameplay, eh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

GAH

[Hurin_Rules]

OK, this is now utterly insane.

Froggy, I watched your battle. I tried again and did exactly what you did. Unfortunately, whereas your Saracen Inf held up for quite a while, and even your peasants lasted a few seconds, mine rout instantly. I'm talking about Saracen Infantry routing after 2 casualties, when they have friendly units on left, right and behind them. They just rout instantly. I have no idea why. Could the difficulty levels be different?

[Hurin_Rules]

Finally did it

Still don't know why my units routed sooner than Froggy's. In my last battle, my left just managed to defeat his right, but my whole right wing crumpled under four units of crusading knights. Luckily, he chased my units for so long that it tired his knights out. When my victorious right managed to hold together and position themselves on the hill that his army began the battle on, he charged me with everything he had left, but I barely managed to hold on and rout his general. He still had some Turcopoles and Hospitallers left (the Turcopoles had routed my Kwarazians-- WTF is up with that?), so I had to hope that Saladin wouldn't go down as his general was fleeing. Luckily, he didn't.

Allahu Akbar

Thanks all for the help. Man, that was one hard battle.

[frogbeastegg]

Nice work Hurin_Rules http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif Off the top of my head I can't remember there being a difficulty selection for these battles, but then it was a long time ago that I finished them, that replay is several months old and it was the last battle I fought as I had done all the other interesting battles when MTW first came out. If there is a difficulty selection you can assume I left it on the default level. I can't remember exactly what I ordered the spearmen to do however it is likely they were on hold formation and all the other defence increasing statuses since they are my standard settings for spears.

Maybe they kept fighting because I threatened to give them to Vanya for his head collection if they ran http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Lord_PH]

go for the general. once the general is dead, the whole army generally routs...victory is yous

use the peasents as buffers...sacrifice a ranged unit if need be...

just get on top of the hill

stall the opponent as much as possbile with expendable units