Linguistics...

[Stefan the Berserker]

Jens Vorbrink, a Student of the Gothic Language, helped us and made all 19 Orders for the Battlefield.

He wants to join our Forum and also post things here belonging to Gothic and requests.

The 19 Orders:

Advance - galeiþiþ
Agreed - jai/fraþans
Attack - anagreips
Change Facing - anþariþ atsinþs
Change Formation - anþariþ ussiuns
Charge - anagreipiþ sprauto
Close Ranks - lukiþ igqis samana
Fire - fon
Form a Wedge - skapjiþ káils
Get them - galaisteiþ imma
Hold - gahabaiþ
Hold your Ground - gahabaiþ ussiuns
Load - skafteiþ baúgnos
Open Fire - skiutiþ
Rally - nasjiþ igqis
Retreat - þliuhiþ
Fast March - rinniþ
Spread out - fradaileiþ igqis
Take aim - fahiþ ins

So, now the Germanic ORDERS are there for free. There is no more fitting Argument to leave them unused

May now an CA Guy please adopt them, Jens will also be here soon. Thank him, he made this for free.

This is now just limited on Battle-orders, Campmap requests are now opened...

þ is a special Letter, if it doesn't appear call me so the Post can be edited

[AvramL]

Not all the Germanic tribes spoke Gothic
Though it's one of the only ancient Germanic languages that is really known. Old Enlish could also be used for some of the western tribes. Anyway, having spoken orders in Gothic would certainly be better than nothing.

[Shahed]

Way to go

[Gregoshi]

Jens (quoted above) has joined our forums and has posted the following in the Entrance Hall:

-----
I just wanted to inform the fellow readers of this thread that my translations are only very raw, since the vocabulary of Gothic is very limited. The translations I did are a mixture of Gothic grammar, Gothic words and, when I didn't have a Gothic word, Icelandic, which is the language I thought to fit best referring to words, since the Icelandic dictionary contains many Old-Nordic words, and German, which is the language which fits best referring to Gothic pronunciation of words (and also my mother tongue).

An example: there's no Gothic word for "wedge" I was able to find - but "wedge" is "kíll" in Icelandic and "Keil" in German (both masculines with a "strong" stem), so I created the word *káils (a masculine strong stem word which would have been spoken like the German word) in Gothic. It's not historically based, but this word really might have existed.

So this "Gothic" (or Neo-Gothic or whatever) is a mixture of old Germanic languages. If you look at Old English you'll find a similar (but less old) vocabulary and a pronunciation differing very much.
Of course not all of the Germanics spoke Gothic - but Gothic is the only reproduceable Germanic language spoken within the epoch the game's set in.

[Umm .. it seems I started talking too much.] Well, although this may not be any contribution to the game I hope it could be a bit convincing or whatever.
I'll answer questions if there are any. I can also try to translate some other sentences if any of you wants me to do this.
-----

You can find his original thread here (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=10694).

[Kraxis]

Hmmm... Interesting.

How does one pronounce the letter? I know the tilted turned 'd' with the crossed top has the 'th' sound... But this isn't it.

While Gothic certainly wasn't spoken by all, or even comparably many, it is far better than accented English. Besides, while it might not be correct, I doubt many of us will know the differences.

On a personal note I can actually recognize several of the words in Danish. Heh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Stefan the Berserker]

Zitat[/b] ]On a personal note I can actually recognize several of the words in Danish. Heh

This is the great advance in this Language, I recognise many german words aswell. Remember that there is one single Germanic Faction, which Germans, English, Dutch, Danish, Sweds, Norse, Icelanders, Greenlanders, Luxembourgers, Flemish, Sudets, Austrians and Swiss have to chare for playing their anchestors in RTW.

[AvramL]

To be fair though, even our knowledge of Gothic comes from hundreds of years after the time frame of RTW, and given that these were spoken and not really written languages, they could have changed quite a bit in a few hundred years. Ofcourse as you say, it's really the closest we can get to replicating ancient proto-Germanic languages.
I wonder if the inevitable expansion pack to RTW will be "Rome Total War:Anglo-Saxon invasion"

[Kraxis]

Lets find more people that can help with this

[Stefan the Berserker]

.com Discussion (http://pub133.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1668.topic)

To combine Threats once again...

I found valuable Links on Punic/Charthagian Language Punic is semite-Language so it belongs to "SeljukSinan's Department". I guess it will interesst him anyway...

Punic Page (http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a8201399/phoenikisch-punisch-homepage.htm)

The Site again contains an Email Adress like Jens' Page www.gotisch.de Maybe Miss Brigitte Ecker could also help she was asked, or scedule Contact to an "Punic-Speaker"...

[Shahed]

Stefan Thanks a lot for that link.

Seeing the Turks speaking Arabic in MTW just was the absolute pitts for me. Agreed at least they were speaking an Eastern language, but still ROFL Turks even today hardly can undertsand anything of Arabic. It was taught as literary education, but not as a language of military instruction.

I hope that CA are taking SERIOUS note of this. There is now absolutely no ecuse to dodge these brilliant suggestions for RTW.

BTW Stefan can you please insert a link in your .com threaD (you keep saying threaT) for the poll I started. I think we could use some more votes in there.

Many thanks again. And ofc I am 100% behind this

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya sez...

The term "goth" refers to teenage malcontents that like to dress in black, are obsessed with death, depression, rebellion, etc.

While Fairuza Balk undoubtedly put a "glamourous face" on the type, surely there are other such folk that look far more drab than anything Vanya could imagine.

BUT... the point is... the term "goth" was applied to these malcontents because they resembled the old germanic tribes when it comes to attitudes about life and fashion. The Visigoths, Ostrogoths and plain Goths all were "goths"... malcontents that just refused to obey Roman laws and norms.

Vanya sez that the gothic warriors in RTW will therefore be a mob of Marilyn Manson lookalikes, dressed in black with pale makeup on their faces with the taste of fresh rat head still fresh in their mouths. It will be the most historically accurate portrayal yet of these savage, vicious, dark peoples.

Vanya sez... adding goth generals with images of Fairuza Balk or the lab tech in the new series NCIS will be a nice touch, though Vanya doubts women were in positions of military leadership back in those days. Or, they could be made as "agents"... spies or assassins... Hmmm... and throw in a "Sydney Bristow" lookalike while we're at it for that extra "oomph".

As for the linguistics... Vanya sez... make them all just exclaim "GAH CUT HEADS OFF GAH", and all will be fine.

GAH

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ Sep. 10 2003,12:06)]Seeing the Turks speaking Arabic in MTW just was the absolute pitts for me. Agreed at least they were speaking an Eastern language, but still ROFL Turks even today hardly can undertsand anything of Arabic. It was taught as literary education, but not as a language of military instruction.
I wuld expect the Greeks to be a little more offended... Russian? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Stefan the Berserker]

Zitat[/b] ]though Vanya doubts women were in positions of military leadership back in those days.

Celts and Germanics allowed Women to fill Leadership positions, mainly they became Tribalpriests (Freya/Frouva/Blouduette Cult)...

Just to mention it...

[Shahed]

BUMP

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Vanya @ Sep. 10 2003,12:27)]GAH

Vanya sez...

The term "goth" refers to teenage malcontents that like to dress in black, are obsessed with death, depression, rebellion, etc.

While Fairuza Balk undoubtedly put a "glamourous face" on the type, surely there are other such folk that look far more drab than anything Vanya could imagine.

BUT... the point is... the term "goth" was applied to these malcontents because they resembled the old germanic tribes when it comes to attitudes about life and fashion. The Visigoths, Ostrogoths and plain Goths all were "goths"... malcontents that just refused to obey Roman laws and norms.

Vanya sez that the gothic warriors in RTW will therefore be a mob of Marilyn Manson lookalikes, dressed in black with pale makeup on their faces with the taste of fresh rat head still fresh in their mouths. It will be the most historically accurate portrayal yet of these savage, vicious, dark peoples.

Vanya sez... adding goth generals with images of Fairuza Balk or the lab tech in the new series NCIS will be a nice touch, though Vanya doubts women were in positions of military leadership back in those days. Or, they could be made as "agents"... spies or assassins... Hmmm... and throw in a "Sydney Bristow" lookalike while we're at it for that extra "oomph".

As for the linguistics... Vanya sez... make them all just exclaim "GAH CUT HEADS OFF GAH", and all will be fine.

GAH
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif

Excellent... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

English for every faction doesnt bother me.

Just gibberish otherwise.

and id say the majority of TW fans speak/understand english.

[Trax]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ May 20 2004,16:53)]English for every faction doesnt bother me.

Just gibberish otherwise.

and id say the majority of TW fans speak/understand english.
Yes, we all do understand English, but still I have never seriously considered using English speech, while playing Shogun, it just seems very wrong thing to do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
English for all factions is acceptible, unless unique languages can be used/reconstructed when necessary. That doesn't sound likely...

What turns me down is the stupid accents thingie. Why not just use different voices, maybe a female one or two and have them speak "regular" English?

Personally, I'd like to have commentors speaking in Latin, Koine or -reconstructed- Gottish but what about Gallic, Briton and -if at all- Egyptian? IMHO, accented English cannot replace them. All or none; give us proper English

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_hide.gif
_

[Leet Eriksson]

I thought the age of mythology egyptian voices were unique,though i'm lacking in knowledge in this department...

Maybe a soundpack mod after the game is released.

[The Wizard]

Maybe we should just have Arnie the Governator be the actor doing the voice-ins of Germanic commands.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ May 20 2004,10:15)]Maybe we should just have Arnie the Governator be the actor doing the voice-ins of Germanic commands.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif

Something like:

"Hail be bak" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rifle.gif

[The_Emperor]

I wonder if the Greeks will sound Russian again this time... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Nowake]

No slavs in RTW as far as I know, even if I wonder how will they fill the north-estern part. Maybeit'll be somekind of north Africa beyond the coastal provinces.