View Full Version : Judeans and Judea in R:TW?
Judean Prince
09-06-2003, 21:45
I posted a few days ago in the entrance hall a thread about Judeans in RTW, but now that I have access to the Colosseum, I decided it would help if I would post here as well, if someone here knows more about the subject.
Basically, my question is will there be Judeans in RTW? any assumptions or official info will be very welcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
i dout it as there not a very well known faction.
But who knows where with CA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Stefan the Berserker
09-07-2003, 12:35
Well, I think the Judeans are historically very important.
Remember where Jesus came from... Also Hebrews had lot of fights with the Egyptans and Babylonians.
Maybe Jesus appearance could be turned into several Historic Events. The Last one, his death on the Cross, could then "Unlock" the Christians as a new Cult that spreads throughout the whole roman Empire...
Yeap the Judeans should be in RTW for sure.
kataphraktoi
09-07-2003, 14:53
Judeans in RTW???
As a faction: no
As an element in RTW: yessom.
Hmm I dunno my history that well in this period. From what I remember they should be a faction, but I don;t remember much about the military organisation. Only what I started to look up (hardly) since JP joined the forum.
Judean Prince
09-07-2003, 16:59
You know what? I'd be o.k. with it even if it wasn't a complete campaign playeble faction, because they didn't make great conquests, and there territory wasn't that big, but what I do want, is that at least they'll make a Historical Battle with Judea vs. Greek/Rome, like in MTW you have scotts in Historical Battles and not in the game, another thing I will want, is of course flags of Judea, as in Star of David, Roaring Lion etc. and the ability to play in custome battles as a stand alone faction.
The_Emperor
09-07-2003, 19:22
I think the Judeans should be an emerging faction like how the Swiss turn up when a rebellion happens in their province.
It would make for an interesting historical event, and the added religious complications of Christianity spreading throughout the Empire would certainly make the game very interesting
Leet Eriksson
09-07-2003, 19:33
Nope,as far as i know it there won't be any judeans,but hopefully there will be the maccabean family,they rised against the romans in that time.
well even if judea is added as a faction i dont see how they will stand a chance against all the bigger factions surrounding them...As i rememer it judea wasnt very good when it came to military organisation but i can be wrong.
Hurin_Rules
09-07-2003, 20:23
It should be a rebel faction-- the Judean revolt was a pretty big deal at the time, and the siege of Masada was a large-scale affair. I don't think they should be a playable faction, as they weren't really a large enough people to really be a player.
I finally found the pics I was using when I started makin a custom map of Massada. Sadly I never finished the map.
From the looks of it you caould actually have been almost 90% self sufficient up there.
http://webplaza.pt.lu/shahid/images/posts/mas024th.jpg http://webplaza.pt.lu/shahid/images/posts/mas_101_aerial_2_96_hi_tn.jpg
http://webplaza.pt.lu/shahid/images/posts/3tierpalace.jpg http://webplaza.pt.lu/shahid/images/posts/snake%20path.jpg
http://webplaza.pt.lu/shahid/images/posts/romancamp.jpg http://webplaza.pt.lu/shahid/images/posts/romancamp2.jpg
The Blind King of Bohemia
09-07-2003, 22:17
Is it just me or was some kind of Jewish infantry in the period particularly feared and also hired by the Egyptians? or am i just going mad? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Murmandamus
09-09-2003, 07:09
Maybe your thinking of the Peoples Front of Judea (http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/LifeOfBrian/brian-07.html) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
ROMANI ITE DOMUM
kataphraktoi
09-09-2003, 14:59
Jewish rebel faction as the Maccabees? (Olympics if u want http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
GAH
Vanya sez...
"Judea" stands for "land of the Juds". If youz transpose that into modern terms, that means, literally, land of the "Judds", or Naomi, Ashley, etc. Vanya does not know if the actress and singers of this family follow the Jewish faith or not, but it is really irrelevant to the topic here. Vanya refers to Ashley Judd's house, for example, as "land of the Judds", or "Judea" for short.
GAH
Teutonic Knight
09-10-2003, 23:24
Quote[/b] (Stefan the Berserker @ Sep. 07 2003,06:35)]Well, I think the Judeans are historically very important.
Remember where Jesus came from... Also Hebrews had lot of fights with the Egyptans and Babylonians.
Maybe Jesus appearance could be turned into several Historic Events. The Last one, his on the Cross, could then "Unlock" the Christians as a new Cult that spreads throughout the whole roman Empire...
the problem with this is that Christ didn't die until 33A.D. and the game ends at 14 A.D., so sure his birth could be an event, but it would be kind of worthless considering there would only be 13 years left in the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Sir Robin
09-10-2003, 23:55
From what I remember religion will not have much of a role in RTW.
We'll need to build temples to improve loyalty or morale but religion will not be a factor in subjugating new conquests.
RTW looks like it will focus more on culture than religion.
In comparison to the greeks, germans, and romans the judean culture was just not that widespread or numerous.
It will probably become a future sore point over what cultures present in that era end up being left out of the game.
Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ Sep. 10 2003,18:55)]From what I remember religion will not have much of a role in RTW.
We'll need to build temples to improve loyalty or morale but religion will not be a factor in subjugating new conquests.
Not to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif but I disagree.
Roman religion was very important, they used it as a method of conquest insofar as theirs was a religion based on incorporating the beliefs of all their conquered provinces into the existing pantheon of gods. From what I recall of my latin class, and the translations that we did, if a province accepted the Roman gods and Roman rule they could continue worshipping as they had before, just so they made a knod (money or goods) to the Roman gods. Also if you read Heroditus' Histories you will see that there is a tradition of religion being fluid but very important because once a province accepted a new religion and incorporated it there was a direct tie to the founding/conquering culture. It showed acceptance of conquest and proved that the province would be loyal to the new rulers (That was not always the case, but it wast the intent). I believe that the Romans continued this until they were Christianized.
The Judeans were the only culture that was conquered by Rome but not religiously assimilated. They accepted taxation (sort of) but not the Gods of Rome.
Sir Robin
09-11-2003, 16:36
Not historically I meant in the game.
The FAQ and interviews imply that the game would be focused more on "cultures" than religions.
Sir Robin my apologies for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif , if that is the case then we can only hope but to mod away after it comes out.
Stefan the Berserker
09-11-2003, 18:02
Zitat[/b] ]the problem with this is that Christ didn't die until 33A.D. and the game ends at 14 A.D., so sure his birth could be an event, but it would be kind of worthless considering there would only be 13 years left in the game
1. If I was CA, I didn't let the Game end in 14 A.D. I would let it go until Emperor Constantine, and let it end when he comes. This would also be a kind Irony, through MTW ended with the Fall of Constantinople and this Way RTW ends with its Birth...
2. Even through this, his Birth is an Sign that the Roman world will die. So, well set at the end of the Game.
3. If the Game ends in 14 A.D. the Game ends during the Arminius-Tiberius Wars. That would be a problem in Gameplay-Realism.
-------
Possible AddOn's for RTW (Looking deep in Future):
- Fall of the Empire (Dark Ages)
- Byzantium, also partly Dark Age. But focused on Rome No. 2
- Arthur vs. Anglo-saxons
- Deeper into Ancient, maybe a detail map of Italy where you play Rome in it's earlyiest Stages...
The Maccabees should be an emerging minor faction, possibly followed by the Nabataeans. After all, Masada was not built by the Jews per se, but rather by Herod the Great as a Roman client king. It was simply that the Jewish rebels made rather effective use of the premises.
The Blind King of Bohemia is right about the Jewish mercenaries used by Egypt - most famously garrisoning the island of Elephantine in the Nile, I think - but rather earlier than the RTW period. Within the period, the Seleucids would have used Jewish troops, but not as a distinctive type - really just a case of "recruit unit in Judaean province" in game mechanics. And of course the Maccabees rather put a stop to that.
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