some questions

[raptor555]

hi,

I tried to play with France in the high-era, what was my surprise that It was very hard to protect from Swiss
Thouse pikemans can't be killed. I was trying to attack them with 2-3 units from several directions and they continue to walk trough my units like a butter ? And my units almoust imidietly are flying off the field... before even i can call for reinforcement to put some more "butter" for the pikemens :")
What was even worse.. I have rounded ~40 pikemans with 80 men-at-arms and 60 italian infantry inside the castle... after some fight only one pikeman left and I was left ~60 units, it alone was succesding in killing more than 20 of my units (the towers helps a bit).. so finally i was fed up and broke the battle..
I wasn't able to kill 1 pikemen, what was it a super-man or what ?
(oopsi before this fight these pikemens has routed yet another men-at-arms,peasants and some cavalary off of the castle)

The big number of units have to win over small number even if they are with high valor... I mean when there is big difference say 140 over 20 or so ? what do u think ..

Can u enlighten me which is the best unit against pikemans...
And how u handle the Swiss in general..
Other nusanse was that after the Swiss taken Burgundy and I got it back on the next turn.. the Pope excomunicated me 'cause I was attacking Swiss ...blah, blah

tia

[squippy]

Arbalesters.

The swiss pikes and armoured pikes are HARD. I suffered at their hands too, especially when they started churning out heirs. Eventually I resorted to attacking them with vast numerical superiority and trying to pin them on a hill where I could shoot them to my hearts content. On this note especially, armoured pikes are slow, so horse archers and similar should chew them up eventually.

Other recommendations would be aruebusiers and cannons. Failing that, try to defeat them in detail through movement on the strategic map.

[Lord_PH]

you could try outmanveouring the enemy...the pikemen are SLOW and horse archers are able to cut them to pieces...you just need to be a little bit patient...

you definitely need arbs or xbows

just tire the enemy... then go for the kill

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]The big number of units have to win over small number even if they are with high valor...

I disagree about this statement. First of all it was not historically true. I mean sure having a bigger army gives you an advantage, but superior generalship has won countless battles even against vastly superiro foe.
In fact there are many instances in history when a smaller army was able to defeat a bigger one. And i like this fact. It means that the game is not about building huge numbers of troops and mindlessly throwing them at things but about generalship - as it should be.

My advice to you: If one tactic doesnt work then try another one. Experiment and adapt. Remember these words from Sun Tzu:
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the results of a hundred battles"

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

My advice is to get an alliance with them at first, then when the time is right hit them and try to take an area which is mountainous or with a bridge and holds advantage to them.. The Swiss are quite foolhardy and will launch an assault straight away to try to reclaim the provence. You will need missile troops of a variety( Kerns and similar troops can really cause damage to them) and medium and light cavalry to harash and make hit and run attacks. The pikemen often become exhausted and after a barrage of this, launch all your army at them, especially CMAA and Billmen can really hurt them and also for the Muslims(if you ever have the chance Saracen infantry and Abbysnian guards).
Hope this has helped http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Spino]

Flank this, alliance that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif Bah

Buy a bunch of crossbows or arbalesters and turn those pike wielding monkeys into Swiss cheese

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Raptor dismiss Spino insane ravings ,(Adapts Emperor Palpatine voice) His path to the darkside is almost complete http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Hurin_Rules]

If you can get some Mounted Crossbowmen as mercenaries, I highly recommend them. When I played as HRE/Germans I sent waves of armies composed solely of mounted xbowmen at the swiss. I'd kill hundreds and then just retreat. After a couple of battles like this, the swiss were massacred.

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya defeats swiss (at least in SP) with great ease using Spanish Jinetes. Just have 2 or 3 dumping javelins into their noggins and it will be like taking candy from a baby...

Vanya has not tried using foot javelin units. But you could try. The Jinetes, being mounted, have the added benefit of speed to help them stay at a safe distance.

GAH

[SirGrotius]

this is a very elementary question, but can faction, besides the swiss or the holy roman empire use swiss pikemen? i've held switzerland for a while as the hungarians, and have been building it up...

[Qilue]

Filtered from MTW 1.1

SwissPikemen ALL_FACTIONS SWITZERLAND
SwissArmouredPikemen ALL_FACTIONS SWITZERLAND
SwissHalbardiers ALL_FACTIONS SWITZERLAND

Column 54 (Specific cultures this unit belongs to.) contains no entry for these three.

Meaning, that islamic and pagan factions can build them if they own Switzerland. VI may have changed this.

[Quokka]

Looking at the Unit Comparison tool it shows that dismounted Knights are pretty good against SAP. It also looked like Gallowglasses and Highland Clansmen are very effective against them, especially if they have a few armour upgrades, they are also a hell of a lot cheaper.

AUM's and Billmen also came very close to winning.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Sep. 11 2003,04:54)]Filtered from MTW 1.1

SwissPikemen ALL_FACTIONS SWITZERLAND
SwissArmouredPikemen ALL_FACTIONS SWITZERLAND
SwissHalbardiers ALL_FACTIONS SWITZERLAND

Column 54 (Specific cultures this unit belongs to.) contains no entry for these three.

Meaning, that islamic and pagan factions can build them if they own Switzerland. VI may have changed this.
If I remember correctly you need a county militia to build pikemen, which the Muslim factions don`t have.

[Qilue]

You are correct. I've been doing a pagan mod and after seeing the files for islamic county militias, monestaries, baronial courts and baronial estates, I completely forgot. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya thinks any faction can build swiss units as long as they control Switzerland.

Also, Vanya likes to instruct His pike units to sing a melody while marching and fighting. It helps them focus on the task at hand, and takes their minds off the 300-mile line for the next Medieval Idol auditions.

"This pike is made for pokin'
And that's just what it'll do.
And one of these days this pike's
gonna poke holes all over you"

GAH

[rory_20_uk]

I think that shooting is the best option - mounted units with armour busting weaponry is the ultimate of course, but at a pinch anything that is faster than they are can be used - although slow and damned boring.
Alieances can be useful in getting them off your back in the short term, but of course an alliance only means that they are an enemy, and they don't know it yet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dhepee]

Quote[/b] (Vanya @ Sep. 11 2003,10:29)]"This pike is made for pokin'
And that's just what it'll do.
And one of these days this pike's
gonna poke holes all over you"
Vanya should write the music for the next TW.

[LestaT]

For large armies during battles. Pound them with artillery fire when they start advancing. When they are near use the missile units. By that time they should be below than half strenght. Finish them of with swords units.