Faris and Mamluk HA

[DemonArchangel]

When you have the faris, what's the use of the mamluk HA>??

[LadyAnn]

In MTW:VI (v2.0) the difference between Faris and MamlukHorseArchers is subtle, but there is a difference.

In MP:
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Faris has higher charge bonus (4 for Faris, 2 for MamlukHA), so if you have the choice, then use Faris. There is no reason to use the MamlukHA.

Of course, if you are not Egyptian, then you don't have much of a choice: you don't have MamlukHA. And Faris are available in Early/High while MamlukHA are available in High/Late.

In SP:
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Faris requires HorseBreeder2, Swordsmith2, Boyer2, while MamlukHA requires Boyer3, Horsebreeder3. That means you may not need to have a Swordsmith to produce Faris, although you may need to upgrade one more on Boyers and Horsebreeder.

There is also a province that give bonus to MamlukHA, while other may give bonus to Faris.

There is also a minute difference: Faris dismounted to be DismountedFaris, while the dismounted MamlukHA becomes Desert Archers when dismounted. But you don't produce troops based on possibility of dismounting, do you?

So, there is not much difference between Faris and MamlukHA, I would go for Faris when in doubt.

This brings me to the Szekely situation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Annie
ps.: Szekely are better than Faris even because they have top run and charge speed. For same cost (and slightly smaller maintenance cost).

[pdoan8]

The Faris seems to make the Mamluk line less useful at time.

In Early and High, there is no doubt that Faris is a slightly better option than Mamluk HA. However, depending on the what they are used for, Mamluk HA are better option sometimes, especially Mamluk HA from Sinai.

For me, I use HA mainly for 2 purpose:

1. Hit and run skirmishing to disrupt the enemy line or drawing enemy cav out for a kill.
2. Destroying enemy foot skirmishing troops or running down the router.

For both reasons, I want an unit with high melee. In this case, valour 1 Mamluk HA from Sinai are better than Faris.

What about the Faris 4 charge vs Mamluk HA 2 charge? I don't use Faris/Mamluk HA for charging so 4 charge or 2 charge doesn't matter much. For charging the enemy, why use Faris or Mamluk HA while I have cav that are much better in charging such as Ghulam and AHC.

So, Is the Mumluk line completely useless? No, they don't. Each unit have its usefulness in combat providing that they are using right. Mumluk Cav are not for charging. They are flanker against high armoured Western Knights because they have AP weapon. Mamluk HA are for melee combat against softer units such as archers or other HA. Both are very useful troops. Faris is some where in between the two and is the more versatile unit.

[Aelwyn]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Sep. 11 2003,20:33)]There is also a minute difference: Faris dismounted to be DismountedFaris, while the dismounted MamlukHA becomes Desert Archers when dismounted. But you don't produce troops based on possibility of dismounting, do you?
Is there any other use for Druzhina cavs? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif I think the whole reason this unit was made was so you could dismount it into a 60-man Feudal Foot Knight unit. Of course, that doesn't help much in MP.

A bit off topic, but Annie covered the entire topic, so not much else to say.

But I would say, it is good to have both types if you're trying to go all-cav and have a Khanish 7-9 style Horse Archer army.

Very fun to try, just maybe not in a 4v4...your allies get annoyed sometimes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[A.Saturnus]

There`s no valour bonus province for Faris. Also, you only need a Citadel to get a additional valour bonus to Mamluk HA, while it`s a fortress for Faris (master swordsmith). That means that you`ll probably never get a valour bonus for Faris. But you can get Mamluk HA at v2, which makes them much better.

[Vanya]

GAH

Why get Faris or Mamluks at all? Just get Berber Camels If you can't get these fierce beasts of war, then you can wrangle with your choices. Vanya sez... best of the rest is Steppe Heavies. Vanya likes heavy steppies.

Vanya thinks the Japanese could have gone far had they only devised of the Heavy Sumo Cavalry, where a Sumo wrestler rides an armored horse, armed with bow and yari and featuring the latest in Legendary Sumo Lard armor. It would have been unstoppable. We'd have a Sumo master sipping sake in the White House, a Sumo master sipping vodka in the Kremlin, and a Sumo master in Paris with his nose in the air whining about how fat Americans totally ruin French food by flooding it with Ketchup.

GAH

[A.Saturnus]

BTW, shouldn`t it be Heavy Steppe Cavalry?? I mean it`s also Heavy Metal music and not 'Metal Heavy music'.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[lancer63]

I pity western factions for being devoid of native ranged cav. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Spanish jinetes have to get too close for effectiveness and become horsed pin cushions before they can even get close to Biz cav, MHA or Faris. Turcopoles I haven't used for a long time, but they are dreadful foes too.

[Cebei]

Faris are better on melee, and have higher discipline than MHA. Also they rout less often.