Barbarian Unit Request Section

[Stefan the Berserker]

Allherjarsgode.de (http://www.allsherjargode.de/geschichtliches/godenundgydjas.htm)

A Good Site in German Language about Germanic Religion/Priests. I'll translate-quote interresting Parts.

Ghodi (Male) and Gydja (Female) wore white Robes. They were absolutely forbidden to wear or use any weapon, the only weapon allowed was the Help of the Gods. They played Chitras, Lyras with six Strings, to make Music for the Gods. Also, they led the Thing ritual and collected the Tax.


Zitat[/b] ]»Da kamen jene Priester der Goten, welche die Frommen hießen, nachdem plötzlich die Tore geöffnet waren, unter Citherspiel in weißen Kleidern heraus und riefen im Bittgesang die heimischen Götter an, daß sie hilfreich die Macedonier vertreiben möchten. Als die Macedonier diese so zuversichtlich auf sich zukommen sahen, stutzten sie, und sie, die Bewaffneten, wurden, wenn man so sagen darf von den Unbewaffneten in Schrecken gesetzt«.

"Then those Priests of the Goths, which were called the Believers, after the Gates were suddenly opened, came out by playing the Chitra and wearing white Clothes. They sung Prayers to their Gods, that they might be so mercy to chase of the Macedonians. When the Macedonians saw these coming so surely towards them, they were supprised, and them, the armed, were, if we may say it shocked by those unarmed."

I alreay had this Idea for a Dark Age Mod, but they can be in Rome aswell: Priests as Battlefield Units

The Group of Chitra-playing Priests is a Unit, they don't fight but they influence other Units: Enemy Units get -2 Morale, allied Units get +2 Morale by hearing their Prayers. This Way their presence influences the Combat Results. This is was an innovative and interresting Strategy...

I guess I should simply Modify the Vikings in VI the Way I imagine Germanics to be in RTW, put the Historic Background on to the Package and upload it. This way, I'm a more productive "Requester".

[Shahed]

Very nice. The same could have been done with Turks in MTW. The Turks had a military band (the Mehtrane) to influence their own troops morale and degrade that of the enemy.

Sounds like a good idea Stefan. You got quite a few of these recently. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

BTW what will you say to people who prefer the game to be historically accurate, and more serious battlefield simulator oriented ?

I am one of those people but I like this idea, anyway.

[Stefan the Berserker]

Zitat[/b] ]BTW what will you say to people who prefer the game to be historically accurate, and more serious battlefield simulator oriented?

Well, acctually this is historically accurate through this really happened. The Game can't be just focused on an "serious battlefield simulator" through there can be situations like this above, which are frustrating and destroy the most intelligent tactic.

Other Things I would like...

- Archers fire Flaming Darts on Palisade Walls in VI, I would like it if the Barbarian Archers do the same by firing on a Unit which hides in Woods. De Facto: Set Woods on fire and let the enemys burn

- Attack Dogs, the multiple-type Unit was suggested many many Times. Barbarians also took Dogs with them on the Fight, so some Attack Dogs following their Masters would be nice...

- Horse and Riders should be sperate Units, if the Horse dies the Rider should fall down but then continue the Fight. If the Rider dies, but if the Horse remains it should run around wildly.

- Same affects Elephants: They should be able to "get angry" and then just stomp around smashing enemy and own Troops until they calm down...

- Farmers and Peasants should appear next to Houses on Maps, expecially in Cities. There should be uncontrolled Units "Farmers", "Slaves", "Children" etc. which are put on the Maps automatically. These belong to a Neutral Side named after the Province Name, they are automatically allied with both Sides of the Fight. So it's the Generals decsision what to make with them. The Game Engine should recognise if a player doesn't kill Civilians or really goes hunting for them. => The Loyality of People in the Province should be intended by this... I guess I'm not the only one expecting large Crouds of fleeing People if I attack a Roman City...

- As a Version of Partisan-Strategy, special Units like the Roman Militia should be able to enter Buildings and hide there. Then storm out or fire with Bows if an enemy Unit appears...

[Kraxis]

I really like the farmer thing... I can just imagine a punitive raid into barbarian lands, or a total pillage of Roman lands, being a Brennus wannabe. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But the wardogs are in, or are you referring to something else?

[Lazul]

I just want CA to stop calling them Barbarian and change the namne to Germanian, Celtic or something. I dont think the Germanians called themselfs Barbarians and Uncivilised.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[ShadesPanther]

I'm sure they didn't.
remember : history is always written by the victor
(except these people mostly couldn't write so thats not fair http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

[Hakonarson]

Priest invoking the Gods were known to have caused a bit of a stir among their opponents of a few occasions - IIRC there was one instance of Etruscan priests waving flaming brands and serpents attacking Romans somewhere that put the Romans off their stride.....enough for it to be reported although the priests didnt' actually last very long

similarly IIRC Druids at Mona were frightening enough to be noted as having put the Romans off a bit - didnt' help them much in the end tho

I have a memory of reading of someone also killing off a bunch of christian monks on the basis that anyone invoking the Gods in battle was NOT non-combatant, and a battle in Ireland where there was a saint praying for each side - victory being ascribed to one saint decisivly out-praying the other

All thse are outside the RTW time frame tho.

[Rocket_Boy]

Nice ideas Stefan, although I reckon that most are probably outside the scope of the game currently being designed. But hey, if RTW is as mod-friendly as it is being hyped, I'm sure that a few talented individuals will be able to create mods like these without too much problems.
(Prays: make RTW fully moddable)

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ Sep. 14 2003,18:35)]victory being ascribed to one saint decisivly out-praying the other
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

That was fun The armies should just get those two into a ring and then begin the prayingcontest.

[Stefan the Berserker]

Ideas to replace the word "Barbarian":

1. North European
2. Heidnic
3. Guthiuda ("good people", how the Goths called themselves)
4. Natives

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One very HUGE thing left:

Religions

I think there should be -> Aesir Cult and the Vanir Cult for Germanics, Banshiden Cult for Celts, the Irmingot Cult for Celts-AND-Germanics and the Dahzbog Cult for the Slavics...

This can be made this Way:

Priests are now Faction-Specific Units, not Culture Specific like in MTW (which only had a few diffrent Religions). Also Faction Specific Buildings will be required...

Units ->

Ghodi - Spreads the Aesir Cult
Wölwa/Gydja - Spreads the Vanir Cult
Druid - Spreads the Banshiden Cult and can push Generals out of Offices (also those from enemy Celts)
Ktisai - Spreads the Dahzbog Cult

NOTE: The Druids of the Gauls had an "Archdruid" which was somewhat a kind of "Pope" to them. He should appear like the Roman Senate, as a small unplayable Faction.

----

Another thing: The Avernians formed a Republic after the Roman Ideas, as I heared. I'll try to find Links to find out if that is correct, through it would be very interresting for "What If...". Imagine you could play a Faction called "Avernian Republic" and establish a Gaulish Republic which is as modern as Rome...

Super-Joy for French, who see France as the Origins of Democrathy... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Hurin_Rules]

Might be cool also to have other religions not necessarily tied to any ethnicity. These could be used by anyone to promote solidarity. These would be things like the Cult of Mithras, which was used to hold the Roman army together, or later Christianity.

[Stefan the Berserker]

Good Site on Arminius Army (http://www.fg-zinnfiguren.de/Warriors%20of%20Arminius.PDF)

Saxon Castes (http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/mittelalter/personen/schmitz/vl9798/quellcap.htm)

Viking Castes (http://www.valaskjalfs.de/wiki/shtml/staende.shtml)

I found enough Facts to make a full Scale on Germanic Units, by combining these Sites.

Gastiz Riders - The first Unit on the Arminius.pdf is already well descripted. They would be nice as an expensive Elite-Unit, which simply overuns anything that is 'annoying'... Through Romans oftenly used Germanic Mercenaries as Cavallary, this Unit should be avarible for both sides. They should also be the Unit of the germanic Leaders (like Royal Knights in MTW) and expecially of Arminius...

Hundreds - the Hundreds or "Centeni" in Latin, were originally a multi-class unit of the best 100 Warriors of a Gau (District). Normally the Multi-class effect combines the best Cavallary and Swordsmen to this Unit, but through having the Gastiz Riders added to the Barbarian Cavallary the Germanics also get the "Hundreds" should be an Elie-Unit of Swordsmen to have the Gameplay balanced... I anyway guess most of you would expect somehow a kind of Jomsvikings when thinging on a germanic Elite Unit...

Friling Spearmen - "IMMENSA HASTAS" and "IMMENSA BARBARORUM SCUTA" are also mentioned by Tacitus, pdf-file page 5. Those Spearmen carried large Shields, which offered well protection from Darts and Javellins, and long Spears (similar to the dacian Falx). Through they were no Nobles, they logically belonged to the Frilings which were the free Farmers. The Pdf-File contains an overview on germanic tactics "Methods of Warfare" on Page 8, as we are told there these Spearmen used dense Formations or "Shield Walls". The comparison to the Phalanx is even made... I think these benefits from the Large shields and dense Formation should be thought of nby creating the Unit

Friling Skirmishers - There was also Skirmisher (spear chucking) Infantry. As the pdf-file also contains it, they look like Kerns for me. So the Unit would be equal to what we already know from Kerns in Medieval...

Berserkers - Appearing in Pdf-file too, but we already know how they are... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Partisans - Also mentioned in the Pdf and neccesarry. If there is no cloaking Group, the supprise attacks and ambushes are impossible (or at least more difficult). The "Hit and Run" Tactic Crassius Dio mentiones relays on them and the Friling Skirmishers.

Other Barbarian Units like the Barbarian Cavallary and the Axemen should logiacally also appear for Germanics, these ones here are just Faction specific.

I think Gastiz Riders, the Hundreds and the Bersrkers should be exeptional Elite-Units which are expensive on/or need two Turns of Time. To remain fairly..

The generla Ideas on "Methods of Warfare" should be well-remembered, the "Hog head" formation should be recognised. Also we got a new input on Linguistics: "Rani" should replace "Kails" in our Gothic Vocabulary...

I can't wait to see this Army fuck up an Roman Legion http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I can only advise to read the Pdf-File, it's wonderful