Have you read Sun Tzu's Art of War

[Revenant69]

Hi everyone,
I am very much interested to know how many people have read this influential book. It seems reasonable enough to ask this question as we all play MTW/ STW/ VI etc. and we all knowingly or unknowingly apply the wisdoms of the Art of War (or sometimes not apply them at all).

I understand that this is only a game and that the book was written for the real world, but regardless of that fact i still want to know if you read it and if you used it's advices in the game.

Personally, since this is such a good book and very easy to read (and small) i have read it around 11 or 12 times and I am reading it again.

Please let me know your thoughts,
Rev

[Shahed]

Hi rev http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I read it before I ever played Total War. Read it about 4-5 times I think, since then. I read some parts again and again, and use it as a reference (like all books ive read).

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I've heard of it but never seen it, where i come from anyway. Is it worth a read?

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ Sep. 10 2003,18:34)]I've heard of it but never seen it, where i come from anyway. Is it worth a read?
I read the full thing just after I got into Shogun... But I knew the more common quotes from other sources long beforehand.

Its a good book well worth a read, and it helps with TW Strategy a bit as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Shahed]

BKB you can read it here (http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html) and here. (http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm) Those are the first two i got off a Yahoo search.

For a reasonably good book with an explanation of the words written by Sun Tzu and their modern applications I recommend this book. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195161084/qid=1063215503/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/104-6339513-9475139?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Thanks very much guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya will share some tips of wisdom. Consider it the "cliff notes" of Sun Tzu... now you can skip the reading and go straight to the fighting

"He who is unstoppable can choose to stop himself."
-- Vanya

"Tis best to attack downhill; this way, should you trip and fall, you shall fall onto the enemy and disrupt his harmony."
-- Vanya

"An arrow in flight is worth 10 in the quiver."
-- Vanya

"Those with courage are but cowards who flee forward."
-- Vanya

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine the meaning of success."
-- Vanya

"To attack like water, it is best to attack in the rain."
-- Vanya

"On the field of battle, he who fears death shall die. He who fears death not shall die just the same."
-- Vanya

That is all you need to know. Now go forth and conquer

GAH

PS: Sun Tzu was a Shih Tzu groomer for the Chinese emperor. The name "Sun Tzu" means "man who tends to the Imperial Shih Tzus". The book, "Art of War", is an application of the hunting tactics employed by these beasts to human warfare. In fact, wild packs of shih tzus were so pervasive in the Asian continent that many modern scholars attribute their roaming to the relative lack of population density in the steppes; these packs would devastate all they came across. There were feared so much that the emperors chose to used trained shih tzus to guard the Forbidden City for centuries.

GAH

[frogbeastegg]

I have read Sun Tzu, although on your poll it would count as once. I read it from cover to cover the first time but since then I have always opened it to either a specific chapter or a random page, read a short section and then thought about what was said for a long time.

My version has sections from other famous generals like Cao Cao giving their interpretations of Sun Tzu's text. I like this because it gives you several angles to look at each section from and gives you even more to think on.

All together now:
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"

Although Vanya offers a good substitute http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The Last Emperor]

I have read it more than once, there are actually quite a number of other military strategy books from different Chinese authors though Sun Tze is the most famous of them all to the rest of the world...anyway i just cant seem to remember any of the chapters offering similar to Vanya's version though..but i really like his wise words, make sense afterall Hehe.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Divine Wind]

Very nice Vanya http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I read it once just after i started playing Shogun. It was very intresting to see how a book written so long ago still applies to modern warfare.

[ToranagaSama]

I read it once back in the 80s when it first became in vogue in the West/America. Every business exec, or aspiring business exec read it back then. I believe its quoted in the move, "Wall Street", by the Gordon Gecko character.

The fact that Shogun was based upon the tenents of Sun Tzu is a MAJOR reason why I was attracted to the game.

I have no idea where my copy is, or I would have read it again.

[Lunael]

I´ve read parts, not the whole, and somehow Art of War seems very much to be about stating the obvious things about war. Well, perhaps the fame is justified as it is the first actual book the state the obvious. But it´s certainly very hip and cool anyway. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

I´m much more interested in reading On War by Carl von Clausewitz (another book I understand was considered a trendy one to read in business circles at some point), and The Prince by Nicolo Macchiavelli. I believe they are as more about politics considering war (The Prince doesn´t really fit this discussion, I think), but given that I´ve recently really enjoyed playing the boardgame Diplomacy by email, that is just well.

-Juha

[Basileus]

only read it once but you need to read it a few times to remember things hehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Revenant69]

good responses so far. I want to know who were the two ppl who voted "more than 50 times" - thats a lot of times to read Sun Tzu. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I agree with Basileus that you really need to read it more than once to remember stuff from it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[invalidopcode]

The book is good to remind you of what you already know but just won't do until somebody else tells you... Nothing really earth shattering, just some good old military horse sense.

As for Vanya's comments - awesome. I always, always crack up reading his responses. Keep up the good work

[desdichado]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ Sep. 11 2003,04:59)]My version has sections from other famous generals like Cao Cao giving their interpretations of Sun Tzu's text. I like this because it gives you several angles to look at each section from and gives you even more to think on.
Frogbeastegg,

Who was Cao Cao - I have heard his name through playing a playstaion game "Dynasty Warriors" but assumed it was made up. When was he around and what did he do?

Revenant 69

Have read bits & pieces of Sun Tzu since my teens but never the whole thing. Lot of it is really just common sense which makes you wonder how different the world would be if some military leaders had actually paid attention to it.

[frogbeastegg]

desdichado - Yes Cao Cao does appear in Dynasty Warriors, however the game is based on Three Kingdoms the book, which in turn is based on the history of China. The people running around in the game are based on real people although some have them have been altered significantly. For example Zhou Yu was a tactician in life but a warrior in the game.

Sadly I can't really tell you too much about the real history as I don't know much early Chinese history. I am still working on my Chinese name pronunciation (the in game pronunciantion is terrible, Cao Cao is pronounced closer to tsow tsow than cow cow ) so I can read the Three Kingdoms story properly. I do know Cao Cao was alive sometime between 0AD and 150AD but I don't know the exact dates. He was not as evil as he is portrayed in the Three Kingdoms (they needed a villain), but like so many ancient generals he would not be thought of as a good person today. He was posthumously declared Emperor Wu of the Wei dynasty.

Perhaps one of our more knowledgeable patrons would like to fill us in?

I can recommend this website (http://www.kongming.net/) to anyone who wants to learn more about the Three Kingdoms. Kongming.net covers absolutely everything Three Kingdoms related so you can find discussions on the books, the games, the history and many other, more general topics like literature. They have a massive library of documents and files covering varied subjects like proper pronunciation, using Chinese characters to spell out the people’s names, and how to find Lu Xun's fourth weapon Game related I can recommend their printable Dynasty Warriors 3 battle maps - they make finding the hidden items much easier. I think they even have a few links to on-line versions of the books, although I haven't seen an on-line version that is as readable as my copy (The Three Kingdoms, translated by Moss Roberts and published by China's Foreign Languages Press. It comes in four books so it isn't abridged like so many others). I have been visiting this site for a couple of months and I still haven't read even a quarter of what they've got

[squippy]

Hmm, well, I would also reecommend a copy that is heavily annotated, as I don't think all that much of TAoW is common sense. A lot of it requires some understanding of literary imagery in the chinese context, like what he epxects the reader to have in their head when he is drawing analogies with mountains.

Some info on Cao Cao:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_Cao

[frogbeastegg]

Thanks squippy, that's an interesting link. I would definitely agree with your comments on needing an annotated copy of the book, the version I have has about 50 pages of small print notes for each of the four volumes and it's still not quite enough. The book also needs an appendix listing the characters, who they are and how you pronounce their name. It would only take one line per character and it would make it much easier to read.

[Longasc]

One thing I always wondered about:

Sun Tzu wrote so general and basic, you might even consider his writing the "egg of Columbus".

But all in all - is the Art of War not rather unsatisfying and shallow simply because it is never specific?

The answer for everything and nothing at the same time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

It was never written for "armchair generals", but see how popular it became over centuries.


I have a saying that would fit Sun Tzu well, too... but it is not from him:

mass is a class of its own


Who knows who said this? He will gain +1000 Experience Points. 10.000 XP will grant him the right to ask his own questions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]But all in all - is the Art of War not rather unsatisfying and shallow simply because it is never specific?


Umm, Have you read the version that has all the nifty Chinese examples (I have James Clavell's edition)? It puts the points made in the book right into the perspective of real life.
And by the way i do not think that it is a shallow book. Have you at least thought about what he tries to say there? I mean sure, some things in there are just plain old common sense. But have you thought about the fact that 2000 years ago it may not have been common sense at all ?

I will state one example here (abit OT but it fits). Since we study calculus in high school, it doesnt mean that we are all as smart as Newton. Essentially our common sense and our common knowledge evolve with time, they are just a part of social evolution.

Sorry i just dont like when ppl try to knock Sun Tzu and his book.

[Aelwyn]

I read it once. A lot of it won't ever apply to the TW series, some of it might in the future, like the parts about trade routes, etc. There are good lessons in it though, so I'd recommend it if you have the time. I don't think it helped me play any better, but it made me think somewhat differently when preparing to attack.

[LadyAnn]

Art of War

I read the Art of War as a class assignment. Forced me to read more than once through different translations, because I can't read Chinese.

The Art of War book was written on bamboo, so the original book was not available. The Cao Cao's copy is still available and many other sources copied from Cao Cao's copy. So, some of Art of War verses were actually not in the original text, but attributed to Cao Cao and later annotators.

The book wouldn't tell you how to fight in particular, but was actually famous for being the first attempt to "professionalize" an army.

There are some verses missing too, so the text is a bit difficult to read. For example:

"When encamping in defensive position, chose the Eastern Side of a hill." What's special about the Eastern Side?

Is that because the sun will be shining in the eyes of the enemy in the afternoon, where you could chose to counter attack? What about the morning when the sun will be in your eyes and the enemy attack? Is that because flanking from the Right flank (you are facing North of you flank from right side) could be done any time of day when the enemy is forced to look South, into the sun when fighting? Is flanking Right prefered from flanking Left because of the weapon/shield hands?

Don't know what the author was thinking 2500 years ago.

Cao Cao

Cao Cao (other transliteration I saw was Tsao Tsao) was a general and Prime Minister of the Wei House in Three Kingdoms era (around 200 BC). The book Tales of the Three Kingdoms were a Chinese classic literature.

There are two views of Cao Cao: one as the usurper of the throne (as portray in Tales of Three Kingdoms); the other as maintainer of the throne (mainstream history).

Cao Cao was known for having very thick beard. Also, he was known to have "good runner vice", as the popular saying was "run like Cao Cao" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif as he escaped in defeat several several big battles.

However defeated in many battles doesn't mean he was a bad general: he won crucial battles so that the house of Wei controlled more than half of Chinese territory of that time, forcing the Han followers to stay in poorer mountainous areas and the Wu House in less cosmopolitan South of Yangztu river. Cao Cao remained in the Capital, having access to the Emperor and he was, until his death, still maintaining loyalty with the Emperial Court (which doesn't have much power anyways).

The famous battle of "Red Crossing" on Yangtzu where legend said Cao Cao amassed about a million troops (100 ten thousand men) to fight a "final battle" against the other kingdoms forces (which numbered combined of about 800 000 men). But the true number is perhaps closer to 300 000 on each side, with the Wei troops slightly out numbered the other two. Cao Cao was defeated in that battle.

Even in defeat, Cao Cao had prepared for that eventuality, so his reinforcement actually detered the other two houses from pursuing him into the capital and terminated the Wei House. The story said that a Han general, general Kwan, almost captured Cao Cao, but then let him passed.

He was also known as very paranoid. The popular saying was "As paranoid as Cao Cao".

Another general from the House of Wei, Su-Ma I then unified the three kingdoms and became emperor after Cao Cao's death.

Annie

[The Storyteller]

I must say, Sun Tzu's Art of War IS common sense, however, like a lot of common sense its rarely adhered to. We all instinctively grasp many of his concepts because of our hours of practice at war games, and consequently find them quite simple. But the people who should be well versed with military 'common sense' often aren't. I've seen a bunch of young corporals who had a bash on RTS every now and then soundly trouncing a bunch of officers in electronic war games. Most frightening.

Even after Sun Tzu's book was published in China, there were still countless lousy generals, to say nothing of generals in the rest of the world WW1 was defined by lousy tactics/strategy, WW2 saw countless armies collapse as Sun Tzu's rules were not adhered to (Allies crumbling under blitzkrieg, Germans suffering from the Russian Winter). The Vietnam War went quite badly too. Now military analysts are warning that the US must not overstretch its troops internationally (bases in Japan and other countries plus several peace keeping missions), which would be another violation of the Art of War. It seems obvious to us, but it must be said all the same because someone up there won't realise until its too late...

The Art of War is brilliant because its like the grammar of warfare - very basic, may be broken in some cases, but must be grasped, instinctively or otherwise, in order to win battles (both electronic and real)

[Lechev]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Sep. 13 2003,09:12)]The story said that a Han general, general Kwan, almost captured Cao Cao, but then let him passed.
The full name of that general who let Cao Cao escaped is Kwan Yu, he let Cao Cao escaped as a kind of returning back Cao Cao's favour but thats in another story.

Well known for his strong sense of duty & honour, it is common to find his statue being worship in temples around the Southeast Asia chinese communits as well as in Hong Kong & Taiwan.

However, because of his virtue his image is somewhat being tarnish as a guardian god of Chinese triads or Secret Societies as they worship him in ceremonies of sworn brotherhood held during intake of new recruits. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Nowake]

With all due respect, I think this general was called Tsao Tsao and not Cao Cao. He was captured at one time by the "Butcher", no? He made a very intelligent analysis on Sun Tzu's book.

[Mount Suribachi]

I've never read it...

Whats it like? How long is it? Is it just a collection of semi-philosophical phrases or genuine prose?

Just curious.

[bhutavarna]

Quote[/b] ]With all due respect, I think this general was called Tsao Tsao and not Cao Cao

Tsao Tsao is an old spelling, Cao Cao is a new one. It doesn't matter though.

He himself wrote a book on strategy, called Meng De's New Treatise or Meng De's New Book if translated literraly. I never read this one though. I don't think it still existed.

He was a great statesman, and was good field commander during his early years.

[redrooster]

Quote[/b] (bhutavarna @ Sep. 16 2003,04:15)]
Quote[/b] ]With all due respect, I think this general was called Tsao Tsao and not Cao Cao

Tsao Tsao is an old spelling, Cao Cao is a new one. It doesn't matter though.

He himself wrote a book on strategy, called Meng De's New Treatise or Meng De's New Book if translated literraly. I never read this one though. I don't think it still existed.

He was a great statesman, and was good field commander during his early years.
Cao Cao is hanyu pinyin and woukld be phonetically more accurate then Tsao Tsao

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I've read it more than once.
And I recomend reading the most unaldulterated copy possible (Tsao Tsao's version), due to the examples and stories portraited...




Quote[/b] ]PS: Sun Tzu was a Shih Tzu groomer for the Chinese emperor. The name "Sun Tzu" means "man who tends to the Imperial Shih Tzus". The book, "Art of War", is an application of the hunting tactics employed by these beasts to human warfare. In fact, wild packs of shih tzus were so pervasive in the Asian continent that many modern scholars attribute their roaming to the relative lack of population density in the steppes; these packs would devastate all they came across. There were feared so much that the emperors chose to used trained shih tzus to guard the Forbidden City for centuries.
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif




Quote[/b] ]I´ve read parts, not the whole, and somehow Art of War seems very much to be about stating the obvious things about war. Well, perhaps the fame is justified as it is the first actual book the state the obvious. But it´s certainly very hip and cool anyway.
You forget that it was written in 500BC... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif




Quote[/b] ]I´m much more interested in reading On War by Carl von Clausewitz (another book I understand was considered a trendy one to read in business circles at some point), and The Prince by Nicolo Macchiavelli. I believe they are as more about politics considering war
That's funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Clausewitz is considered, today, as WRONG in quite a few of its claims.
And the same never happened with Sun Tzu, even today... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Nowake]

Well, maybe because Sun Tzu never bothered to launch theories. Anyway, this thread dates from ... BC also http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, this thread dates from ... BC also
I know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But some threads are too good to be left to fade...

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 17 2003,18:26)]
Quote[/b] ]Anyway, this thread dates from ... BC also
I know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But some threads are too good to be left to fade...
True, check the archives also.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]check the archives also
Rest assured, I will... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Sun Tzu revival huh? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Actually, some people prefer spelling as Sun Tsu...Me including...

I've read the book about a dozen times +, well before S:TW, and I was delighted to see it as such an important part of the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif I pull it from my shelf from time to time when I need some inspiration.

Clausewitz, whom I've also read, was far more concentrated on the practical sides of war, while Sun Tsu inspired warriors thinking. Furthermore, Clausewitz never entirely concluded his book, and I believe that there are actually only few chapters that he completed

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]I've read the book about a dozen times +, well before S:TW
The first time I read it, was in 1992... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif



Quote[/b] ]Clausewitz, whom I've also read, was far more concentrated on the practical sides of war, while Sun Tsu inspired warriors thinking.
Yes but, due to that specificeness, most of his writings contain some erroneous practical aplications of tactics, training and deployment of troops...

[Teutonic Knight]

went out and bought it last weekend along with Karl von Clausewitz's "On War", both great reads http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 17 2003,17:12)]
Quote[/b] ]Clausewitz, whom I've also read, was far more concentrated on the practical sides of war, while Sun Tsu inspired warriors thinking.
Yes but, due to that specificeness, most of his writings contain some erroneous practical aplications of tactics, training and deployment of troops...
My point exactly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif I don't need no one to tell me how to outflank the enemy units in 27 percise steps, I like to dwell upon the question whether should I or should I not attack a certain army or besiege a distinct castle. Now, Clausewitz could have done it better than myself, I'm sure http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif , but the point is that Clausewitz's book is now outdated and somewhat "unpercise" at certain points, while the old Sun Tsu will never suffer the same outcome, since he wrote mainly on the philosophy of conflict.

Remember his prime statement; the one who does not fights, wins. Now go figure and compare with Clausewitz

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]went out and bought it last weekend along with Karl von Clausewitz's "On War", both great reads
I'm glad you did... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif



Quote[/b] ]My point exactly I don't need no one to tell me how to outflank the enemy units in 27 percise steps, I like to dwell upon the question whether should I or should I not attack a certain army or besiege a distinct castle. Now, Clausewitz could have done it better than myself, I'm sure , but the point is that Clausewitz's book is now outdated and somewhat "unpercise" at certain points, while the old Sun Tsu will never suffer the same outcome, since he wrote mainly on the philosophy of conflict.

Remember his prime statement; the one who does not fights, wins. Now go figure and compare with Clausewitz
Exactly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
That's why I like Sun Tzu so much, the philosophy itself...

I have a strange recollection now... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif ...I just remembered "The Way of the Daimyo"'s beautifull presentation and the first time I put my eyes on it.
I thought:
"Finally someone pays attention and achieves in concentrating some of the inner Japanese spirit "

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 18 2003,13:52)]I have a strange recollection now... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/read.gif ...I just remembered "The Way of the Daimyo"'s beautifull presentation and the first time I put my eyes on it.
I thought:
"Finally someone pays attention and achieves in concentrating some of the inner Japanese spirit "
You mean the manual that went along the S:TW, right? There is no other book with that title?

In that case, believe it or not, I have the entire manual printed out and I take it up every now and than and read a few pages while I take a coffee break and have no one around to talk to. As I read it for the first time, I was blown away about how deep CA guys went writing it down; most people will, for instance, mix up harakiri andsepuku big time, and refer to that trident formed weapon as wakizashi - not to mention some more brutal and ruthless mistakes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

These boys mad first class work, I salute you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]In that case, believe it or not, I have the entire manual printed out and I take it up every now and than and read a few pages while I take a coffee break and have no one around to talk to.
Awesome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif




Quote[/b] ]As I read it for the first time, I was blown away about how deep CA guys went writing it down;
Yeah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
I think that the guy who did all that work was EatColdSteel. He sometimes lurks these forums and answers people's questions... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif




Quote[/b] ]These boys mad first class work, I salute you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Indeed they did... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 19 2003,22:06)]I think that the guy who did all that work was EatColdSteel. He sometimes lurks these forums and answers people's questions... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Yes, though I don't know who is directly responsible for the Way of the Daimyo, he and some other fellows from CA lurk here frequently around and post surprisingly, most of the time with some excellent tips people would have otherwise have a most difficult time workin out. Figure just how commendable is that; the creators of the game participating in the game community to such an extent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif They are great, to put it as simple as possible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, though I don't know who is directly responsible for the Way of the Daimyo
Have you been eating those mushrooms again? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I said EatColdSteel WAS the guy who wrote "The Way Of The Daimyo"... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif



Quote[/b] ] They are great, to put it as simple as possible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Indeed, they are, my friend
Indeed they are... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 20 2003,12:23)]
Quote[/b] ]Yes, though I don't know who is directly responsible for the Way of the Daimyo
Have you been eating those mushrooms again? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
I said EatColdSteel WAS the guy who wrote "The Way Of The Daimyo"... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
No, you DID NOT *belch*


Quote[/b] ]Yeah
I think that the guy who did all that work was EatColdSteel. He sometimes lurks these forums and answers people's questions...

THINK, you said THINK Uargh, man, you are "high era" definately http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif


How I envy you right now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]THINK, you said THINK
Point taken. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
But it was what i meant... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Irving]

Read it a couple times, but I prefered Go Rin no Sho myself.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Go Rin no Sho
Please elaborate... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Irving]

Go Rin no Sho (The Book of Five Rings) was a treatise on sword combat written (well, it was dictated) be the greatest swordsman Japan has ever seen, Miyamoto Musashi. In the book, he outlines his strategy (2 swords) in detail. Great read

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

AAAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I only knew the English title: The Book Of Five Rings.

Some quotes are mentioned in "The Way Of The Daimyo".

Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Voigtkampf]

Yes, a magnificent reading, though somewhat short, but that's a part of Asian philosophy… Note my sig, it's one of my most precious guidelines

[noramis]

Doesn't seem to matter much anymore ... we tell countries when we are going to attack, and we attack when we say we will.