Question for Komninos

[Wellington]

Hi Komninos,

A quick Q. I really liked your satellit emap of Greece/Asia minor that you used for your Hellenistic mod.

Is there also a similar satellite map of Spain available? If so could you point me to it?

regards,
Welly

[komninos]

Yes I have the Earth in two images.
The one has the Americas ans most of the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean and the other Europe, Asia, Africa and Australia.

The problem is there size. A friend uses Adob Photoshop Elements to open them and cat out pieces for me. You can download them after you granted permission by NASA (That is not difficalt you just wait a bit) or you can fined other ones here.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/BlueMarble/

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov

or finaly here

http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/

[Wellington]

Many thanks K.

I've found exactly what I wanted.

[komninos]

The problem is that if you would like to have the realy big images you will have to wait ~1 month. But still you can fined other things http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

A good trik might be to pass the map from a sepia filter and then copy and paste it on a parchment like thing to give it some old stile finess.

[Duke John]

I'm also busy making a campaign map using the greece map from Komninos. Not being content with the dark blue sea I looked closely at the MTW map and found that there was a repitition in the sea texture. I edited the MTW map to the point where I have a 4096x3072 sea. On this I placed the land mass of greece with pretty good results. If you like I will send you the file, just tell me which format since it's at the moment 36mb.
Here's a picture of the sea, it looks very repitive because of the small size but it's exactly the same as used for the Viking map:
http://chronicles.metw.net/hellinic/CompleteSeaTex2.jpg
And a picure of my edited Greece map:
http://chronicles.metw.net/hellinic/Maptex2.jpg

Cheers, Duke John

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ Sep. 16 2003,03:37)]I'm also busy making a campaign map using the greece map from Komninos. Not being content with the dark blue sea ...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I had exactly the same thoughts when I saw the satellite map image as well, and I coded a solution in LMM5_Tga.

This is from the LMM5 documentation, that I'm currently busy with, detailing one of the paramters -

"MapAdjustRGB=(Rmod,Gmod,Bmod) FromRGB=(R,G,B) ToRGB=(R,G,B)"
---------------------------------------------------------------

This option allows for adjusting a range fo RGBs by increasing or decreasing
the values of any or all of the primary colours (red/green/blue) across a range
of RGBs.

It is unlikely that most users will require this option, but it is an extremely
powerful means of amending certain ranges of colours on the map image, across an
whole range of RGBs.


1) "MapAdjustRGB=(Rmod,Gmod,Bmod)" specifies the modifiers to be added to all RGBs
that fall within the range (specified via the "FromRGB=" and "ToRGB=" parameters),
where -

Rmod/Gmod/Bmod - each specify a number in the range -255 to 255

Note that each of these modifiers may represent a positive or a negative number. A
positive number increases the amount of the primary colour (R, G or B) whilst a
negative number decreases the amount of the primary colour. A value of 0 does not
effect the colouration.

For example -

"MapAdjustRGB=(10,20,80)" - increase R, G and B values
"MapAdjustRGB=(-40,30,0)" - decrease R value, increase G value, B value is unchanged
"MapAdjustRGB=(0,0,-100)" - R, G values are unchanged, increase B value

... and so on


2) "FromRGB=(R,G,B)" specifies the lower range of RGBs to amend

3) "ToRGB=(R,G,B)" specifies the upper range of RGBs to amend


For example, presume a map image (eg: a satellite image) has the water areas coloured too darkly - almost black. Presume also the RGB colours for the water areas fall within the range 0,0,25 to 20,20,75. If we choose to amend such areas to show a more blue colouration we could do this by amending ALL of the RGBs that fall within that range and significantly increase the amount of blue in JUST THOSE RGBS THAT FALL WITHIN THE RANGE.

Thus, we could add the parameter -

"MapAdjustRGB=(+10,+10,+60) FromRGB=(0,0,25) ToRGB=(20,20,75)"

to significantly increase the blue primary colour in such RGBs whilst also increasing slightly the red and green colours.



Note 1: Multiple "MapAdjustRGB=" parameters are supported.

Note 2: As this option results in checking every single RGB (pixel) on the Lores
and Hires map images, it may take some time to run.



SPECIAL EDITORS NOTE: This option is complicated, and I really don't expect many users of LMM5 to utilise it. It was added as a result of experimentation for a specific project ("Komninos" Hellinistic project - available from "The Org"). Komninos had provided a mod mod that utilised a superb satellite image of the Greece/Asia minor regions.
However, as the map was a true satellite image the water areas in the Med showed up as very dark areas. I was curious what Komninos map RGBs would show up if I tried to
recolour such water areas slightly, with a view to differenciating the colours that may appear similar to the naked eye (bear in mind that, although in a 24-bit full colour map certain areas may appear to be a single colour to the naked eye, areas of apparently similar colours prove to be very distinct when viewed via a filter - especially so when the map image is a real satellite image). Therefore this option was a "trial and error"
piece of coding for me to ascertain just how much differentiation there was between 24-bit computer based colours (16 million of them&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and what a human naked eye could recognise within this vast range. This option generated colours that were very distinguishable on
Komninos's map - and the values specified above "MapAdjustRGB=(+10,+10,+60) FromRGB=(0,0,25)
ToRGB=(20,20,75)" specifically relate to Komninos's satellite map. If you have Komninos's mod then try this option with the specified parameters. What you will see is that the shades of Blue between water areas representing deep oceans, shallow oceans and coastlines are VERY
WELL DEFINED As a result of this success I decide to offer this functionality as an option within LMM5_Tga, just on the grounds that true map images (ie: satellite images) can offer an immense amount of detail with just minor recolouration across a range of RGBs.
Many graphics products, that manipulate images, offer a range of filters to allow an image to be amended within the 'bounds' of pre-defined filters provided by such graphics products.
Users of LMM5_Tga should consider this option to be a "filter" that is NOT PREDEFINED but rather allows the user to specify how the filter should be constructed (in terms of ranges of RGBs). Complicated? YES Powerful? Immensely
If you don't understand what I'm saying here - don't worry about it It's just my attempt to explain why this option is available in LMM5_Tga, what the background to providing this option was, and how it may be potentially useful.



The results are quite nice. Let me know if you want a pre-BETA versionbof LMM5_tga to try this this and I'll E-mail you a copy (it's only 400K or so)

Welly

[Antalis::]

@Wellington, Duke John and komninos:


It would be fantastic if someone of you (my technical skills in mapmaking are not that good at the moment), could make a playable map (maybe in the time of 16. century) of the hole world http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Will you do it?


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[komninos]

I was also skeptic with the dark colors of the map ...
Ducke John exelent Image ... why not jpeg it and have it as a secondary option ... This would be good for incerting names on it.

Wellington very interesting. But its best to wait for the final. On a side note can you put an image up here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Antalis:: ... sorry no way. Unless CA does not increase the map size to something like 8000x4000 for the low-res. Europe will be way too small for its nations to have any chance

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (komninos @ Sep. 16 2003,05:45)]Wellington very interesting. But its best to wait for the final. On a side note can you put an image up here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
K,

I've E-mailed you a small portion (200K) in GIF format - a lot of resolution has obviously been lost but you should get an idea of the result.

[Duke John]

I'm currently working with LMM4 and am now making the boundary map with the pink lining. I don't know if LMM5 provides me many more options or is better for VI. I believe LMM4 has enough options for me but you can always send me LMM5 and I will have a look at it if you need an opinion. Note that I don't have so much time that I can BETA test. Or if LMM5 is simply better than you may surely send it to me

By the way, does any version have the ability to paint pixels into provinces to let LMM know that there's a trading good or resource available?

Cheers, Duke John

[komninos]

Duke John,

Have you retained the size of my map. If yes you don't need to pass it though LMM (exept if you would like to remake the boundaries)

take your image and paste it over the TGA map image (be very careful here to place it in the exact position) Then scale it by 2 and place it over the larger map image. ... Done Now you have the new map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

On the other hand leave something for the rest of the moders http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I am expecting a bonze armored hoplite and a heavy dark age hoplite http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif from you ... lets rock

[Duke John]

Yes I am redoing the map. It won't be competitive with your Hellenic mod since I won't upload this mod. It's simply to satisfy my needs. The sea region will be different to better suit the AI and there will be less provinces to avoid long campaigns.

Quote[/b] ]On the other hand live something for the rest of the moders
I've tried to look at this sentence from all directions but I still don't know what you're talking about "I have to live because of the other modders?" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Cheers, Duke John

[LeBob]

I think he meant "leave" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[komninos]

Oh ... ok hands play funny triks when typing fast http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

its leave ... thanks LeBob ...

[Duke John]

But don't think that I thought it was irritating, I just didn't know what you meant that's all.

And Komninos did you perhaps perform test runs on your Hellinic campaign map and did you conclude anything? At the moment I'm trying to sort out the provinces with historical references but perhaps you have any tips for smoother gameplay?
I know that I can use your existing map, but the Greece map is so nice and the period so interesting that I just can't restrain myself from modding an entire campaign.

Thanks in advance,
Duke John

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ Sep. 16 2003,07:11)]I'm currently working with LMM4 and am now making the boundary map with the pink lining. I don't know if LMM5 provides me many more options or is better for VI. I believe LMM4 has enough options for me but you can always send me LMM5 and I will have a look at it if you need an opinion. Note that I don't have so much time that I can BETA test. Or if LMM5 is simply better than you may surely send it to me

By the way, does any version have the ability to paint pixels into provinces to let LMM know that there's a trading good or resource available?

Cheers, Duke John
I think you'll be ok with LMM4 for what you want to do DJ.

As for recognising "goods and provinces" no version does this. We thought about this some time ago but the principle for the 'Script' file was basically to get something working that showed up in the campaign map screen - and therefore circumvented the lack of error messages in MTW.

Once you have an LMM Script file (that works fine) you can take a copy and make changes to your hearts desire. LMM was primarily concerned with creating correct versions of all the files that are nigh on impossible to change by hand (BIFs, LBMs, TGAs). Implicit in this was to create a startpos (Script) file that contained the minimum basic parameters that pertained to the files LMM creates.

Basically, LMM is a number cruncher - not a GUI.

Having said that, LMM creates a few files that may be used for such a GUI startpos Editor (look in the 'LMMFiles' folder after youy have processed a map - you'll find a lot of Xref info that can be used for such a GUI startpos editor).

[komninos]

Hi DJ,

I have meny maps of the period but none offeres very clear info. Most of the maps are of Roman Period so you need one of these and then read through 4 book of Pafsanias to get the "correct map". A simpler way is to simplify what you see and the history you know.
Drop me your mail through PM so I can send you the image that defines my map.
Here are some links
Greece at the Beginning of the Peloponnesian War (431 B.C.). (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/greece_pelop_war_431.jpg)
Greece - Reference Map of Ancient Greece. Northern Part (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/greece_ancient_n_ref_1926.jpg)
Greece - Reference Map of Ancient Greece. Southern Part (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/ancient_greece_so_1926.jpg)

There are more here
UT Library Online (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_europe.html)
===========================================================
After you pass it through the LMM you will need probably my tool to rapidly get it down and working ... I will send that also through mail.