Crusade spamming

[magnatz]

I just bailed out from a Byzanthium game, because four factions (Italian, Spanish, German and French) kept throwing a continuous flow of crusades at me. Since I invaded Sicily in the early game I never had to deal with less than two crusades at the same time, and at a point the crusades were five (because the Spanish had two at the same time). Actually most of the late crusades were ridicolously undermanned, because Europe couldn't produce units enough to keep up with the request, but they kept crusading anyway.

At the same time I had to deal with repeated attacks from Turks and Hungarians (which were reduced to a single region but wouldn't sign a ceasefire, apparently survival instinct is not the strongest point of the AI). Not to mention the Pope from Hell, who was back with a army that would have figured well in WW2, after only two turns from having been eliminated.

In the rest of the world the economy was apparently based on the mass production of assassins (guess who was the target), and everybody was at peace with his neighbours.

However I learned something:

- eliminating the Pope helps with excommunications, but it does not stop the crusades in progress.

- crusades can be stopped by ambushing them with vastly superior forces while they are in a third country. I expected to destroy a Italian crusade in Hungary this way, but the crusade teleported itself to Bohemia, where it sat idle year after year, until it was reduced to about 200 men.

- crusades couldn't care less about sea blockades. When I saw a HRE Greece-bound crusade in Genoa I immediately proceeded to blockade *all* the seas around Greece, but in the next turn the crusade flitted to Greece anyway (then I destroyed it, but the HRE had another one ready).

This game was fun in a sort of skewed way, but I do hope that this kind of things don't happen all the time... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya sez...

Easy way to sap a crusade (if you be Muslim or Orthodox, that is) is to flood provinces along its path with alims or byzantine bishops. They will increase the flock of your faith there. If you can get the christian percent below 50%, the crusade will LOSE men as they cross that province or sit in it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif A nice way to take the steam out of an overbloated crusade...

Also, if you smash the crusade, the king that sponsored it LOSES influence. Killing a crusade could lead to a revolt when his influence drops. This could free up some of his provinces (ie, they could go ronin) and thus, offer a bountifull buffet of lands for the taking. And, if he has provinces with several large stacks, 1 or more might rebel, forcing your enemy to have to smash his own heads for a change The end result is usually fatal for the poor bastard crusader infidel pig.

Lastly, Vanya suggests that you take Rome at some point. On occasion, it will rebel. If that happens, spare no expense. Afterwards, you can dump it and let it revert to the Pope or the rebels. The beaty in doing this is that it sets you up for a Jihad on the Man in the Pointy Hat. When the Man in the Pointy Hat starts talking bad about your mother, and you suspect your friendly neighbors might be enticed by his words of bigotry, throw some Jihads at Rome and skewer the Man in the Pointy Hat. Just make sure your Jihad target campaing is successful. After that, let your men have fun over there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You will always have a hot line straight to the Pope's seat of power. Give him a dirt bath, and you shall spare yourself of any crusades being launched until his return

Lastly, mass-produce Jihads. If the enemy takes your province with anything, crusade or not, take it back with Jihads You get tons of influence by doing so (And free armies to boot&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

GAH

[Dhepee]

Wesmod, check over in the Dungeon, reduces the crusade spam.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]I just bailed out from a Byzanthium game, because four factions (Italian, Spanish, German and French) kept throwing a continuous flow of crusades at me.

Oh c'mon. Byzantines have a wicked army anyway. Part of the fun for me is fighting a Total War (as the game title says). Be it 4 crusades, the Sicilian pirates, the Pope and his cronies or others. Honestly, I never had problems with crusades when i played Byzantines. I considered them a training army for my men (so that they could get more valour). Honestly, every time a multithousand crusade crossed into my borders i would whip its butt losing very few of my men in the process.

The game is easy anyway, why not add a challenge to it?
Regards,
Rev

[Qilue]

Quote[/b] (magnatz @ Sep. 15 2003,05:06)]- crusades couldn't care less about sea blockades. When I saw a HRE Greece-bound crusade in Genoa I immediately proceeded to blockade *all* the seas around Greece, but in the next turn the crusade flitted to Greece anyway (then I destroyed it, but the HRE had another one ready).
The blockade didn't exist when the crusade moved from Genoa to Greece. Basically, your ships have to have started their turn in those seas for a successful blockade.

[magnatz]

This makes sense... the AI moves at the end of the turn, so probably my ships weren't in place yet. This is the effect of having played too much Civ3 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

However I still wonder how the crusade reached the Grecian coast, since the nearest enemy fleet was near Sicily (and didn't move in the following turns). Apparently they used my ships for the last leg of the journey, which is somewhat unethical for a invading army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Revenant69]

I think the enemy crusading army can use the ships of their allies. I am not 100 percent on this but I have seen it in the game. So i dont know if it is a rule or was just a fluke.

[NewJeffCT]

Well, when I play a Catholic faction, I hate Crusades. I tend to rush all out to develop my troop building provinces and always have high quality troops. Then, the 'invading' crusade comes through and sucks up all my good troops, leaving me spending a ton of time sorting through partial units and trying to build them back up to full strength… nothing like having 4 units of 96 Swiss Armored Pikeman get whittled down to units of 43...and, if I near-abandon the province to avoid the troop sucking, my neighbors invade on the heels of the crusade into that now lightly garrisoned province.

As a Muslim or Byzantine faction, I laugh at the Crusades. As the Byz, I have labeled Hungary as the place crusades go to die. I will generally fill the border provinces with a good amount of troops. And, the peasant heavy crusades will be scared to attack. If they even dare enter the province, they will immediately retreat. Twice in a 20 year span as the Byz in one campaign, I had 3 crusades sitting in Hungary whittling away. Each had 1,500 or so troops initially, while I had about 2,000 in my border province. I also tend to flood border provinces with alims or orthodox bishops as well. And, if I play Egypt or Turkey, the crusades have to go through non Catholic lands before getting to me – getting worn down again. By the time I get to having Catholic borders, I am pretty much in control of the board and have such a big war chest that it does not matter.

So, I have generally found them to be laughably poor when I have to go against them.

[Spino]

Modding is the only way to give Crusades their historical teeth back. When you increase the cost of Crusades and virtually eliminate the chance of seeing Peasants anywhere except in Peasant rebellions Crusades become alot more dangerous.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Revenant69 @ Sep. 16 2003,21:11)]I think the enemy crusading army can use the ships of their allies. I am not 100 percent on this but I have seen it in the game. So i dont know if it is a rule or was just a fluke.
This is true... When I played an English game a few months back Crusades heading towards the Holy Land were comming through my Holdings in france to use my fleet to shortcut their way down to North Africa in one turn.

If the owner of the territory gives his consent for safe passage through his lands, the Crusade can use his fleet as if it were his own.

I think in order to blockade a crusading fleet you must make sure that ALL the other Neutral/Allied fleets in the ocean square with you are either destroyed or at war with you...

When I was playing as the Turks I made a point of Assassinating the Pope with those Five Star Syrian killers whenever he calls for a Crusade against me... (just to make a point) I killed three Popes in a row and the next guy elected had the "Survivor" vice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Looks like the AI got smart quickly.

[Qilue]

Oh, something to keep in mind when playing a catholic.

After much testing, I've found that denying entry to a crusade results in a slight increase of your ruler's influence with a corresponding decrease of the crusader's ruler's influence.

Perhaps all the other catholics are impressed with you defying papal authority.

[NewJeffCT]

Quote[/b] (Qilue @ Sep. 19 2003,12:44)]Oh, something to keep in mind when playing a catholic.

After much testing, I've found that denying entry to a crusade results in a slight increase of your ruler's influence with a corresponding decrease of the crusader's ruler's influence.

Perhaps all the other catholics are impressed with you defying papal authority.
Yes, but denying a crusade access results in immediate excommunication, and possible internal rebellions due to peasant unhappiness with the excomm... then, other Catholic factions launch crusades at you....