Ghazi Infantry and Mamluk Cavalry

[Quokka]

Previous to my play last night I had enjoyed the sight of Ghazis in my enemies ranks. They were good valour fodder for whoever got to them first. I liked them so much I sent a care package every year. Mamluks I had not seen too much of. Well they are off my christmas list now, definitely in the 'naughty' list for Santa.

They came in an Egyptian army attacking the remnants of a successful crusade of my English. The Egytpian general was an 8 star and the Ghazis had 1 armour upgrade. My general was a 2 star.
They ran straight up to a 98 man unit of Chiv Sergeants with 3 armour upgrades. I thought goody and had manouvered a 40 man CMAA unit to attack from behind when they engaged. I think these guys just drove them through my line. Moments later they are dead but I lost 75 Chiv Sergeants and 8 CMAA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif They attacked my Italian Infantry 2 units up at the same time. I had 12 Knights Templar run into their backs. Result 82 dead Italians. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
My battle line had been, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
CS(98), CS(88), II(100), CS(78) with 55 Order Foot as a reserve. Then their Mamluk struck the other CS units and went straight to Winning Easily, they were too. So I sent in my few cav units and they go to Losing Badly against a Cav unit involved in a frontal attack on CS being attacked from behind. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Luckily they came in the second wave and my Longbows/Archers had withdrawn or they would have died soon after when the gaps were flooded with Saharans and Beduoins. I steered my Cav clear of their Beduoins, this was Greece and the terrain was Arid. I already knew what Camels do to Knights, thats why I only had 12 Knights Templar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif .
I had not seen troops drop like that since my first game ever and sent 500 V0 peasants to deal with the 300 Clansmen in Scotland http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif . It was like watching the feul gauge on supercharged V8 when pulling away from the lights.
Me no likey high valour Ghazis, me no likey at all

There was a seperate but equally annoying incident with Ghazis, again against the Egyptians. On the battle map, especially from a distance, Ghazis and Archers look similar in Egyptian colours. I sent 7 Feudal Knights and 18 Mtd Seargeants to 'finish off' these archers (there were some right behind them). Not long after I notice I have no Feudal Knights left and thought of another phrase that starts with F and finishes with off. Ghazis don't play well with others. They should have put that in the manual. I think they got the description for Mamluk Cavalry wrong as well. The bit about 'surprising' heavier cav, 'spank' would be a better word.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] ]Not long after I notice I have no Feudal Knights left and thought of another phrase that starts with F and finishes with off. Ghazis don't play well with others. They should have put that in the manual. I think they got the description for Mamluk Cavalry wrong as well. The bit about 'surprising' heavier cav, 'spank' would be a better word.


LOL That was pretty good description. I havent used Mamlukes yet as the only Muslim faction i played so far were the Turks. But i can definitely vouch for Ghazis. These guys are on some pretty good steroids or is it hash lol. They form a significant portion of my armies as shock troosp from hell. They are a bit fanatic though. Best bet against them is to fill them full of arrows lol.

[Si GeeNa]

Dont under-estimate the Ghazis...

They are real hard-core... as someone else described them somewhere else... 'They are the ultimate in Fire and Forget which blows up in the faces of the enemies'

I always keep a substantial part of them in my Muslim armies. They may die fast, but they dont run and stick to the unit they contact with.

Mamluk Cav... Dont really fancy them much, other than a Med Cav kinda role. But the Mamluk HA are pretty fine multi-role Cav...

[ShaiHulud]

hehe.... Yeah, Ghazi always leave a long trail of bodies where they tread. I love their high morale. They'll fight to the last man, often. With a commander of 4 stars or better, they're a veritable meat-grinder.

[Kongamato]

Fast infantry is incredibly useful, especially if you can flank quickly and rout the line. Nothing escapes from a line of fast infantry, they take care of the routers so your cav can help elsewhere.

[desdichado]

I like Ghazis but yet to finish a battle with any unit at more than half strength - this makes it hard to get (and keep) high valour units. Best sight I have ever seen was when I snuck a unit of Ghazis through the battle line, turned them around, put them inwedge and had them charge the rear of the nearest enemy unit (which happened to be Ghazis). Few seconds later that unit was destroyed and entire enemy battle line was heading for the hills. Good thing too cause I had decided to defend a village (no reason, I just wanted to) and got outmanouevered by the AI and was struggling. They saved my bacon and from then on always had at least 2 units in my army.

Just remember to keep them away from arrow fire

[Tempiic]

Gahzi's are one of the best infantery units around for use on the flanks... they are fast and are able to outmanouvre most enemy infantery units, which allows them to often charge from the flanks...

mameluk HA are more than just horse archers, they are more hybrids as their combat capabilties are on par with alan cav...

With the right upgrades mameluk HC can rip through enemy knights

[A.Saturnus]

Hmm, I remember, when MTW was just out and I new to this board, there were discussions whether Ghazi have any use at all.

[rory_20_uk]

Ghazis on hash? I think not Something closer to crack in me experience
I have to second the thought that the best ghazi is one at the bottom of a hill receiving terminal attention from two units of archers - possibly with a charge from knights to slaughter the remenants.

[Vanya]

GAH

GAHZee infantry is unstoppable.

Vanya sez... Saharan cav from Cyrenaica with master horse breeder better value than Mamluk cavalry. Vanya never had chance to use Sumo Mamluk Cavalry. Vanya hopes to test them one day against some peasants and whatnot.

GAH

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Sep. 15 2003,21:21)]They came in an Egyptian army attacking the remnants of a successful crusade of my English. The Egytpian general was an 8 star and the Ghazis had 1 armour upgrade. My general was a 2 star.
Well, big part of your mishap is the 8-star egyptian general... His 8 stars added +4 to ghazi attack and defense whereas your own general added just +1 to attack and defense of your units...

The key to your success in that battle would be to get their general down fast...

[Leet Eriksson]

best starting age for egypt is ealy,becuase they get the pretty invincible hashimite commander Al Afdal Shahinshah.Mameluks are pretty awesome,sadly they lack speed,but just for the heck of it,they can kill all types of archers units and are pretty good at flanking,also combined with ghulams they can defeat knights,make sure you tire the knights while the fresh ghulams attack them.Also they can kill light and fast cavalry without any trouble thanks to their attack power,also they are pretty much on par with byzantine cavalry.Faris are alot better and come with the same price

[Fragony]

I don't use mamluks like regular cavalry, they are excellent when attacking heavily armoured knights. Kwazmarian is a pretty decent heavy cav, and I use these guys for the traditional shock. When I play egypt I don't even have any spear, I have camels and mamluks why bother?

[Qilue]

There are only two cav units with AP. Gothic knights and Mamluk cav.

Basically, mamluk cav is effectively ghazis on horseback with better defence. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Quokka]

Ghazis are back on the list now. I am playing this campaign as the Turks and I just love those Ghazi guys. Sometimes you don't even have to tell them who to kill http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif they just do it. I like them so much I even gave them their own province, Arabia. A Ghazi is always governor. Sure I have to assign it every turn they fight, but its a token of my appreciation. I can't wait until the Christian pig-dogs attempt to Crusade. 1160 and not 1 crusade launched. Chickens.