Halberdiers and the like

[kawligia]

Well I've been running some experiments and it seems that Halberdiers which are available not too much longer after chivalric units on the tech tree (by the time they're allowed you've probably build the requirements anyway), are either stronger or just as strong as CMAA AND Chiv Knights. They handle CMAA, Chiv Sergeants, and Chiv Knights just as well as their more traditional counterparts (knights - spears etc.). Does anyone here abandon those units in favor of halberdiers? I think I'll have to now. It's also a lot less confusing when only 1 melee unit can take care of business with anyone.

On the other hand, I've found not Militia Sergeants to be very helpful in the fuedal period. They seem to suck against cavalry. They also seem to suck with spears compared to swords. I haven't run any MS vs. FMAA yet...hopefully they will redeem themselves there. If anyone uses these extensivlely let me know how or why.

[CeltiberoMordred]

Halbendiers are as good as maa in h2h combat. But...they are very slow, have a poor morale and tire faster (these two make halbs the perfect candidate to rout). Even the are more vulnerable to armour piercing units. Use them to counter cavalry instead of spears, and face swords with swords.

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[Lehesu]

I like halberdiers for defensive roles and low grade attacks, but I have found that they simply are not dependable enough in critical conditions because of their low morale. They are often a heavy pin unit to keep the enemy occupied while I flank.

[kawligia]

Yeah I knew they had low morale but usually when I fight I have some spear units, sword units and cavalry.

You never know where the cavalry will come. Sometimes they flank, sometimes they charge the sword units in front. That's why I keep spear units on the flanks AND in the front and if the cav doesn't do a frontal assault I halt the spears and charge with the swords. While that gives protection, I usually wind up with spear untis that don't really do much in at least one of those 3 positions (2 flanks and a front). I thought maybe if I used all halbs, I could attack with more units and still have flanks well protected, therefore lessening the low morale risk.

Maybe it'll work...then again, maybe its my original plan that needs adjustment.

[A.Saturnus]

Well, halberdiers aren`t a stand-alone-unit, because they are to slow and have low morale, but they are rather cheap and can inflict heavy damage to anyone foolish enough to engage them in melee.

[Qilue]

I've posted this before somewhere.

A better alternative is Chiv Foot Knights. Granted they are more expensive to maintain and the building requirements are kind of stiff, but they have the same stats as halberdiers but are elite with much better morale and and a better attack bonus. Plus they can be cav when you don't need an anti-cav unit.

[hoom]

I discovered the joys of MS & Halbs early on.

I have never found MAA to be very good at all.

Granted, MS & Halbs have low morale, but built in a city with church & other morale improving buildings, they become very tough.

I've recently discovered that Halbs make for a fairly handy castle assault troop since their lack of speed is less relevant there.

[rory_20_uk]

I thought that halbediers were the uber unit of my dreams, but had failed to take their pitiful morale into account. Whilst they were fighting they held their own in terms of numbers killed, but true to form they quickly got tired, tried to rout and were wiped out, due to their speed. No Xmas card for YOU I've not bothered with them much since, but imagine that they can be good at higher morale, preferably in woods so that their foes (archers and cavaly) are less of a threat.

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[hoom]

Cavalry are only a threat to Halbs insomuch as in terms of morale during the charge.
Once they get into melee, Halbs munch through cav.

[Rowan11088]

That's why you should get Swiss Halberdiers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LOVE that unit. They're halberdiers on steroids, except with slightly worse defense/armor...I put a master armourer in Switzerland in my German campaign, pumped out these guys. The whole rest of the campaign i never needed to "defend" in the traditional sense... when i was attacked, i placed all my units (mostly Swiss Halberdiers) as close to where the enemy would be as possible, and rushed them. Instant victory. NOTHING can stop swiss halberdiers, but they only can last a few battles if totally unsupported.

[Mega Dux Bob]

Quote[/b] (Rowan11088 @ Sep. 28 2003,14:00)]That's why you should get Swiss Halberdiers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LOVE that unit. They're halberdiers on steroids, except with slightly worse defense/armor...I put a master armourer in Switzerland in my German campaign, pumped out these guys. The whole rest of the campaign i never needed to "defend" in the traditional sense... when i was attacked, i placed all my units (mostly Swiss Halberdiers) as close to where the enemy would be as possible, and rushed them. Instant victory. NOTHING can stop swiss halberdiers, but they only can last a few battles if totally unsupported.
Ya' the Swiss Halberdiars kick bottom. The only time I've seen a unit get destroyed to the last man before it could rout was Swiss Halberdiars attacking a unit of fuedal spears.

[hellenes]

Halberiers and Jan heavies in the woods the perfect cure to the mongol desease i had once 6oo jan heavise (10 units)slaughtering 6000 mongols (the rest just stopped on the edge of the map till the time ran out)...

[hoom]

Time? What time? Who plays with time on? So they can win by avoiding battle? Cheap asses all.

I never seem to have managed to get hold of Switzerland early enough to really get decent units out of it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[tuopaolo]

I don't play with the time limit on because it's too short. I want there to be a time limit because I don't want a situation where there is a stale mate. If I am defending against an AI attack against my castle sometimes the AI just seems to sit there and do nothing. The only thing I could do to end the battle was to go out of my castle and confront his force. I shouldn't have to do that. The AI should be forced to withdraw if he doesn't want to confront me when attacking a Castle just as I would be forced to withdraw.

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Sep. 28 2003,18:24)]Time? What time? Who plays with time on? So they can win by avoiding battle? Cheap asses all.
Eh? Staring down your enemy on the field is a time-honoured tactic. I always play with the time limit; would be unrealistic not to, IMO.

[NewJeffCT]

I think Halberds are an excellent defensive force, especially when you are facing superior numbers and want to plant your troops on a hilltop. However, I tend to be an aggressive player in SP and do not like their slowness afoot and poor morale – a group of Turcoman foot or Turcoman horse would whittle them down until they were exhausted or totally exhausted.

However, I love Swiss Halberds because they are not slow and have better morale. I have only played the HRE once, and I won a lot of battles with Swiss halberds.

[hellenes]

About the time when you have 180 minutes to win there is plenty of time to do it and also I AM DEFENDING if im attacking then im pushed to purshe the enemy in shorter time not like those boring pavise duels in mp...

[Oaty]

I only had a time limit screw me over once when I was assaulting a castle and got the bright idea to throw all my mercanary units at the castle since they all were depleted beyond tactical use on the field anyways they kept routing 1 after another and finally I had got them down to 2 men and the time limit expired. I was so mad, ok guys been a nice battle but we have to get our z's now. Wonder if RTW will have time limits since there will be night battles.

Anyways whats timelimit have to do with Halbrediers. Oh I get it now, they are sooooo slow the time limit epires as soon as they engage