stupid historic campaign unit setups

[Irving]

So, I started playing the Toyotomi Hideyoshi campaign and passed the first two battles (minor problems on the first.. oh well) and i get to the third.... My troops are placed incredibly badly, but i am attacking so, can't do anything ... 3 units of archers and one unit of 40 ashis are off on the left of my main army on a hill.. rather well placed. The rest of my army is in a sort of shallow valley. I press begin battle and 3 units of enemy cavalry appear right beside my archers... much slaughter insues (sp?) and then twice my taisho being a 12 man unit of ND was killed by rogue BN about 20 seconds into the game before any unit could come to the rescue! Does anyone think this setup sucks to hell? I do, and i don't think a brilliant general like Toyotomi Hideyoshi would setup his archers 50 feet from 200 enemy cavalry.

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Major Robert Dump]

I thought they were sort of ambushed on that one even though they were the attackes, and thats why the setup was so bad.

Or maybe I'm just wrong like usual http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[solypsist]

yep. that one was a big problem. so big, i asked the forum users for help and got some great answers.
the key is simply to win; this isn't a campaign battle (not in the traditional sense) so you can lose men in a fashion that is normally unacceptable in the sp campaign.

[Irving]

that's the thing. Those archers get their asses kicked. 50 ashis isn't enough to stop them. They rout and i haven't been able to beat them after that........ bah

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Puzz3D]

Irving,

I played that battle, and lost the first time because I never saw the enemy cav. I got caught up trying to kill the ninjas with my cav, and didn't fully survey the situation. On the second try, I won by bringing both YC to help the archers, and then an additional YA and the NC after they had driven off the ninjas. I lost the two YC, but the NC still had 73 men and was able to decimate 4 gun units, 3 of which were unprotected near the center trees. I brought all my yari infantry to the center rise where the taisho starts, and the SA joined them there. The remaining enemy units eventually ran away, and I got a few more kills running some of them down with the NC. That NC finished with 409 kills. The total were 658 kills and 291 losses.

Now the next battle where you have to occupy the castle is tough. I've lost 4 times now. I'm unable to kill even one of the 8 kensai.

[Dark Phoenix]

I bloody hate that one Puzz3d, failed about 10 times the stupid Kensai.



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"DP is correct" - Shiro

[Gregoshi]

Puzz3D, if you use only 60 man units there are only 4 Kensai to deal with. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Irving]

but you still have proportionally less men.

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Gregoshi]

I know. The http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif was the big grin for the stupidity of my suggestion. I should exercise more care in distinguishing between when I'm acting dumb and when I am being dumb. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Puzz3D]

Gregoshi,

Actually, I had forgotten that my unit size was set larger than 60 after playing around with large YA units. I'll try it at 60.

[Dark Phoenix]

Greg I didnt know that there was a difference. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"DP is correct" - Shiro

[HeDrums]

I started playing the Tokugawa Ieyasu campaign, and I've had a very tough time with the second battle: Kakegawa. Would some kind soul who routinely wins this one please give me some suggestions? I'm getting tired of losing again and again (although I am getting closer: my most recent battle I just barely lost). I know it's okay to fight to the "last Daimyo" if necessary.

[Gregoshi]

LOL DP. But there is a difference - when I act dumb, it sounds much more intelligent than when I am being dumb.

HeDrums, I don't recall the battle you are talking about. If I remember what I did I'll let you know, but I'm sure someone else will chime in before that.

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Flame of Udun]

I dont remember much about that battle i beat it the first time (was on a rollalso beat the next 2 battles but then i was stopped cold)
What I really have problems with is Fushimi the second battle in the mongol campaing
(sp?) Just cant beat it i kill more than 1000 japs everytime but i always lose 1/2 my force

[fredi]

HeDrums, here is the way I won the kakegawa battle.

The Imagawa are in 3 groups (one in the castle in the central south part of the map, a second group is cavalry and YS charging you from the North eastern corner and the third one is WM and Nag. units coming from the western side). Together, these Imagawa units are much stronger than you. So the main idea in that battle is to fight them one by one, before they merge. There is no timer, so no rush to attack the castle.

First stop the imagawa cavalry attack from the North eastern corner. For that use 2 YS units to stop them on the top of the small hill facing them and one other to flank them from the east. Use your Yari cavalry and Nag. Cavalry to flank them from the west.
Don't use your archers at that point, they will be more useful later. The fight should not last too long and be quite easy. You shouldn't have too much losses at that point. When the fight is finish, you will see 3 120-men WM units followed by one 120-men Nag. unit marching from the western side of the map toward the castle. it is crucial that they don't enter the castle. For that, position your archer and the other range units along the side of the hill, and use one unit (for instance a Nag unit) to bait the Wm units in the bottom of the valley. Don't engage them, just make the Wm units pursue your unit. When the Wm are far way from the castle and in the bottom of the valley, use all your archers and arquebusiers to fire at the WM. After a few minuts the total number of WM should fall from 360 to less than 100, and therefore easier to manage. Attack them with what's left of your YS, your Nagitanas. flank them with what's left of your cavalry. You should be able to crush them without too much losses. At that point, you should have at least one nag. unit intact and enough Ys and cavalry to attack the castle.It is defended by just 60 Ashis and 11 heavy cavalry + archers and arq. You should have enough troups to make a frontal attack successful.


To Flame of Udun. I won that battle a long time ago. So i don't remember too well. Is this the one when you start as Mongol in the middle of the map with japanese units all around? If this is that one, you have to leave the centre of the map as soon as possible. I think i used all my troups to attack the south western hills, where japanese units are mostly archers, and therefore easy to crush with my mongol cavalry. I won quite easily, and i could face the rest of the Japanese army from the top of a hill. Hope that will help.

[HeDrums]

Thanks -- I finally won it a couple of nights ago using much the same approach you outline. I did let some of the WM get into the castle, so I had to bait them to get units to come out of the castle in small numbers so I could blaze away. Also, at one point there were no troops left defending inside the castle, so I rushed all of mine in there, then held off all attempts to re-take it.

[Flame of Udun]

Hey thanks I won that one with 372 ppl left I think thats the hardest one Nara was simple and the last one well My General (Heavy Cav) took 355 heads but in the end i had 84 units left