View Full Version : What's Better-Joms Vikings,JHI or VG???
I was wondering what unit everyone thought was the best. I some point or another I have heard people say that the JHI and hte VG are the best HI in the game. I threw in Joms VIkings because looking at their stats they just kick ass also they cost more than JHI and take two years to build. So, what's the best???
Hi
That depends on whether you will use the unit on attack or defence.
On defence I personally prefer Swiss Armored Pikemen as they easily defeat JHI and pretty much everyone else as long as they are not attacked on rear.
On attack you got two situations again; attacking from flank/rear or attacking straight ahead. In the first choice, berserkers are the best (Ghazis, Celtic warriors etc). THey massacre troops, fast, but as they dont have armor, they shouldnt be used on a frontal assault. On the second situation, heavily armored units are better, like Gothic foot knights, hospitaller foot knights and JHI. They are slow but they are as hard as rock.
Thanks Cebei for that info but so people are not confused that is not what I am asking. I would like to know what people think is the overall best unit of these three for ALL situations (defend,attack,frontal,rear etc...).
Revenant69
09-20-2003, 18:23
Quote[/b] ]On the second situation, heavily armored units are better, like Gothic foot knights, hospitaller foot knights and JHI. They are slow but they are as hard as rock.
You are very much mistaken. JHI are fast That is one of their major beneifts + they have a shield. So i vote for JHI (I havent played a viking campaign yet)
Quote[/b] (Revenant69 @ Sep. 20 2003,12:23)]You are very much mistaken. JHI are fast That is one of their major beneifts + they have a shield. So i vote for JHI (I havent played a viking campaign yet)
Sorry for double misunderstanding. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
1-OK my fav. multi purpose unit is Swiss Armored Pikemen, they are just too many and they are armored....and they are pikemen and they beat JHI and Berserkers
2-Yep sorry for JHI either. I was just trying to say that they are suitable for frontal assaults. I wrote GFK and HFK first then added JHI after finishing the post. So yes, JHI arent slow.
DemonArchangel
09-20-2003, 21:04
well, VG'S are awesome, as are JHI's. VG's are better for tanking over lightly armored peasant rabble. JHI's are for taking out gothic knights and sundry other cavalry and punching holes in lines for cavalry to break.
I'd say JHI is the best infantry in the game. They defeat cavalry easily, they hardly ever die (except to arbalesters and x-bowmen) and they defeat almost any other kind of infantry. I sent a troop of valour 3 JHI after the enemy king in a battle once - a troop of arbalesters got in their way. 5 seconds later - literally - they were down to 20 men. They fled. The JHI then proceded to chop down every last Royal Knight in less than half a minute, all by themself, in the midst of the enemy army. They even left the battle with more than 40 men, out of the original 60.
Their speed, coupled with their immense attack and defense power, make them an outstanding infantry unit I've never seen the like of in MTW. Chivalric foot knights come slightly close, but they don't have the speed of JHI.
What about dismounted Gothic Knights?
Hehe 666th post. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Swiss Armored Pikemen wins over JHI. They are friggin' Swiss man Or perhaps I am just waay too bored with Janissaries as an Anatolian.
I am not saying which one is better overall, but I just did a fight test and the Joms Vikings kicked the JHI with 49 kills 7 deaths with me as the defending JHI's with the Vikings attacking head on. I expected to have more than 7 kills. It was suprising. The other things are that JHI are Disciplined are good vs Cav and fast. But 1 on 1 The Joms Vikings win
Once I found VGs I stopped looking, so I don't know if anybody else is better.
ichi
motorhead
09-21-2003, 11:40
Based on raw combat numbers and assuming a cage battle where only one group leaves I'd rate them (1 thru 3) as Joms >>> VG >>> JHI. For versatility I'd go with the anti-cav/armour of JHI. VG 2nd for being available during early and high.
As far as SAP, they are killers so long as they are in their formation to get their formidable pike rank bonuses. In custom battle the SAP shredded JHI going straight at each other in 4 battles. But, if you take advantage of JHI speed move around and disorder the SAPs then they lose 4 times by a small margin. In a real battle best to nullify SAPs for much of the battle with a good unit of spears, which is how I handle them in a campaign. Overall, I'd give a small edge to JHI for versatility and high/late availability.
edit: as for GothFKs, well, stat-wise they look like they'd fight Joms to a draw. Being kick-@$$ cav to boot makes them pretty tempting. Only being available in one era (late) puts them back a notch to me though. Like SAPs in SP, by the time you complete their building requirements, you only get a short time to rampage with them.
Eastside Character
09-21-2003, 13:17
I think Szekely are better.
neogerry
10-16-2003, 06:21
VG´s is the better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The Wizard
10-16-2003, 12:07
Personally I prefer VG's, but they have their weaknesses, just like those oh-so-sexy Joms (if you know what I mean with that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )
Leet Eriksson
10-16-2003, 15:40
VGs and Jomsvikings beat anything in close combat,but they ain't as versatile as JHI,JHI can cream gothic knights and lancers,VG's frontally cannot win thus making them pretty useless against heavy cavalry,unless you manage to flank them.Also VGs are slow and are troublesome at manuevering,and that just makes matters worse becuase that just creates more enemies that are able to defeat them.
Jeebus_Frist
10-16-2003, 18:35
I would have to say it is the indomitable kensai™ No other unit can wreak such havoc
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/kensai.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Kristaps
10-16-2003, 19:19
Have u tried dismounted chivalric knights? Fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Ironside
10-16-2003, 20:57
Yes the kensai is really tough when valor 8 and a general. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Ever tried defending a province with only kensais? Comp sends 60 47 killed, next year attacks with the 13 survivors (likes that gonna succeed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) proceeds doing that a few years then sends 120 and slowly increase the numbers. It's exellent training grounds.
On topic the jomsvikings are the best unit because they got the best stats, comes in packs of 60 and aren't slow-moving. GFK got the problem that AP is working on them from the start.
Aginst cav CFK got best stats but they only comes in packs of 40.
SAP:s are evil but is weak if flanked.
The Wizard
10-16-2003, 21:42
Quote[/b] (Jeebus_Frist @ Oct. 16 2003,12:35)]I would have to say it is the indomitable kensai™ No other unit can wreak such havoc
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/kensai.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Argh gotta get me MI...
Indeed JHI are more versatile and their speed makes them that much more useful. :]
NewJeffCT
10-16-2003, 23:16
I love Janissary Heavy Infantry due to their speed. They are invaluable against Mongol Heavy Cavalry. SAPs may be the most powerful overall due to the unit size of 96 and reasonable support costs (cheaper than regular pikemen to support...)
Funky Phantom
10-17-2003, 17:57
Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Sep. 21 2003,07:17)]I think Szekely are better.
lol, while not quite in the same catagory as the rest of the troops mentioned here, i do agree that they are superb. Their speed combined with good attack, defence and morale make them uber-HA's http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
i prefer VG's any day of the week them and kataphatoi's freakin snap anything. Kata's snap chiv knights they are so good and they are cheaper and can built earlier but the all time greatest unit is of course the BOYARS they are the best unit in the game and are almost bloody ubers
thanks dessa
Edit: i just did some unit testing and the results were
Human=turks Computer=byzantines
Units=1 group JMI and 1 group VG
Results Turks W 60 kills 58 losses
these results give that Vg's are better because they are far cheaper than JMI's
thanks dessa
Omar Mena
11-04-2003, 06:05
Quote[/b] (Jeebus_Frist @ Oct. 16 2003,12:35)]I would have to say it is the indomitable kensai™ No other unit can wreak such havoc
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/story/kensai.jpg
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
This screenie is awesome It would be interesting to know who won this battle I place my bets on the Heavy Cavalry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
lol, kensai would destroy that army
The Wizard
11-04-2003, 09:59
Bulls-eye..
oh, and i saw one berserker run through the middle of a unit of spears in an SP game the other day, he went straight through, killing a line of men, and then kept going on to the other side, it reminded me of kensai http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
kataphraktoi
11-05-2003, 03:42
Like knife cutting through butter.....only on STW and MTW and possibly RTW
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