Varangian Guard

[kawligia]

I've never played as the Byzantines before but I wanted to give it a try this time around. So I started by doing some custom battles to get a feel for their units, but the Varangian Guard aren't available in the Late Period. Huh? So I stared a Late game and built the buildings and nope, they were nowhere to be found.

What gives?

Does this only happen when you start on the Late Perod? If not, do the ones you have at that point in the game dissapear or do you just lose the ability to make more? More importantly why??? They only have 2 infantry units besides peasant morons and stone age spearmen and they take one away? Why?

[desdichado]

Kawligia,

Haven't played as Byz but from what I know they are only available in early & high periods. In late you lose ability to produce VG but you get to keep what you have already produced.

One of the reasons byz don't do so well in late period As to why I don't know although I suppose historically this unit had disappeared by the late period??

[Ironside]

Most of the varangians were recruited from England and Skandinavia and I assume that those were harder to come by after time passed because they became recruited in thier own armies and at the same time were the byzantines stripped of cash.
I'm not even sure that they had varangians in high historically.

It also symbolies that the Bysantines sucked in late, and varangians are badass-troops. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Tony]

Hello Iron Side, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Time to MOD MOD MOD MOD.....

I always set my Byzantines to have Varangian Guard available in late. I don't care very much about how historical it is - it makes for a better game IMHO.

In case you haven't modded before...

1) Make a backup of the file CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.TXT in your Medieval - Total War directory.

NEVER MOD ANYTHING WITHOUT A BACKUP OF THE ORIGINAL FILE. I just went through a painful full uninstall of VI and MTW, followed by a full install after I hacked a non-backed up file and buggered it up totally. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

2) Open the file with a text editor - I like wordpad as it orders the columns nicely. Notepad can be difficult to read.

3) Find the line starting with VarangianGuard and scroll across to the entry EARLY, HIGH

4) Edit the text so it reads EARLY, HIGH, LATE. Be careful to edit from within the quote marks and don't add anything else (like TABs for example).

5) Save the file, start MTW and you should have VG in late.

6) If anything goes wrong - replace the file with your backup and start over.

Enjoy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Ironside]

Write ALL_PERIODS instead of early, high, late, if only because it's shorter. You don't need if it's only word in that column.

[Dimonstre]

In fact about 30% of the very last defenders of the Byzantine empire's capital Constantinopol before he felt to the turkish was hired western european soldiers - genoese, venetians and germans. They was very well equiped and trained. To me they look close to what Varangian Guards represent in the game, so the absence of this unit in the late period is disputable.

[BDC]

I think they can just be represented with regular mercs.

[Ironside]

Let me guess the other 70% were tukish mercs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Perhaps the germans could be considered varangians, but the genoese and venetians was one big reason why the Bysantine empire fell and the reason why they fought was that they didn't wanted to lose lucrative trade. The varangians never fought for own interests, thats was the point with recruiting them from the other side of the world. That the byzantines have to rely on mercs fits history quite well.

And for kawligia, if you don't like it, mod it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

On another note. Has anyone noticed that the Danes is starting to do well in MTW VI? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif I've given Scadinavia slightly more income (Denmark 50, Sweden 25, Norway 15) and I'm not sure if thats why or that their AI has been inproved.

[hellenes]

I agree with the Venetians being thr reason for the collapse of the empire BUT the Genoese were Allies because they were enemy of Venice if IIRC... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Brutal DLX]

I modded my game to be able to build Early Varangian Guard in Early, (they look more like Viking Era troops) and normal varangians for High and Late, although in late you don't really need them, because if you started Early, you should dominate already.
If you start a late game, however, go for gunpowder units along with arbalesters and your usual heavy cav and Byzantine Infantry. They still can stop Catholic armies with that, especially if you have good generals.

[motorhead]

Did a search on google and found differing opinions on the whole Varangian issue. However, one site actually sites a source (The Varangians of Byzantium by Sigfus Blöndal) which, to me, lends it some credibility. Varangians are referred to being used in battle from 988AD to 1272AD. From 1272AD thru 1341AD they are only cited with respect to guard and ceremonial duties within the city of Constantinople. My opinion is the folks at CA are pretty close to the mark by restricting VGs to early/high.

edit: Mod away if it pleases you, but it seems to me that's leaning your thumb pretty heavy on the scale, especially combined with the excellent Byzantine generals. To each, their own.

[Ironside]

The problem with the Genoese and Venetians for the Byzantine empire was that they were compeating with eachother for most trade on Byzantine ground while the Bysantines payed the bill. Therefore was the Byzantine trade was paralyzed and was prevented to recover. The Genoese where losing against the Venetians and became therefore a little bit more friendly against the Byzantines in the end but then it was to late. The Ottoman turks had came to a stable period of strength.

Good info on the Varangians motorhead, the last I read something about them was during the crusade times and therfore before 1205.

[Nestor]

Information on the subject can be confusing because the Varaggoi of the byzantine empire where not always the same.

Varaggoi for the Byzantines was supposed to be the name of a race of people that lived in the North, Scandinavia or Russia. And in fact in the early years they were originated from the North.

Later it became common for englishmen to fill the ranks of the Varaggoi. At least once I've seen written that they were even called english-varaggoi.(Ironside, probably that's the reason you read about them only before 1204. Until that date they were mostly scandinavians)

They rightfully participate at full strenth in the early and high eras of the game as these were their best years in the history of the Byzantine Empire.-actually half of the high era but you cannot divide an era, can you?-

IMHO they could be replaced in the late era by a much weaker unit, representing their ceremonial status at the time.

And another thing: they should always be loyal and not allowed to participate in rebellions. They were always the most trusted soldiers of any Byzantine emperor even more than his own family. (Ok, that's easy, you could never trust your family as a byzantine or any emperor of the medieval times) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kataphraktoi]

If you want a challenge in VI and experience the difficulties of Byzantine military problems then you would have to mod it alongside the historical lines.

The Varangian Guard disintegrated without a fight when the Crusaders sacked Constantinople in 1204

After that, the resources were simply not there to constitute a Varangian Guard.

Imperial Bodyguards were diverse and various.eg. Archers from Crete were hired as Imperial bodyguards.

[kawligia]

Finally http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif My internet connection is back up. (Toshiba modems suck )

I agree that it is in one way historically accurate to restrict them to early and high, but for the sake of playability I will have to mod it...I like the historical accuracy, but to be fair...historically I was NOT the Emporer of the Byzantine Empire. And you can bet your @ss that if I was, They wouldn't have the money problems that apparantly caused the VG to disappear. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Suppiluliumas]

Actually, the Varangians were the only Byzantine troops to acquit themselves well against the crusaders in 1204, most notably repelling their assault on Blanchernae palace. Villhardouin, who has little good to say of the Byzantines, was quite complimentary of them.

[MILITARYMAN]

Hello http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
The Vangarian guard had vanished by the late period
But the horde had also had,nt they??

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]And another thing: they should always be loyal and not allowed to participate in rebellions. They were always the most trusted soldiers of any Byzantine emperor even more than his own family. (Ok, that's easy, you could never trust your family as a byzantine or any emperor of the medieval times)

Ok but to make it really real, they should only be loyal to the emperor if he still is the emperor (they still rebel if the royal line dies out). It happened once (don't remember when) that the emperor was murdered and when the bodyguards (presumebly varangians) ran in to the room, the emperors murderer was still there and said, that they were sworn to protect his life but not to revange his death. The murderer wasn't killed at that time, if I remember correctly.
But the varagians seems to several times been the only troops to fight for the emperor in rebellions so they were extremly loyal to the sitting emperor.

And kawligia see it this way, the kings in Scandinavia and England didn't want their good troops to move to Constantinople but instead join the ranks of thier own armies. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif