Hey, Pope! Where's the equity?

[ShaiHulud]

I'm playing as Hungary and have been at war with Spain for decades now. Since I've committed myself to ALWAYS obey the Pope, I find myself under his benevolent restriction not to do battle with Spain for another ten years.

Ok, I'm fine with that.... I'm PIOUS. But, why is it that when the stinking Spaniards sink my ships THEY don't get ex-commed? So, Spain gets to screw up my trade and sink the occasional ship and 'Papa' turns a blind eye?

On another subject, why is it that, since I conquered Venice, my new monarchs now appear there when my old monarch dies? Eh?

And, what's with those Mongols? They appeared in Khazar (French) and Georgia (Kievan). But, next turn they pull all their troops out of Georgia and they're at peace with each other? I'm SURE that's what they'd have done if I owned Georgia.

What's with those dinks the Sicilians do, killing ONE ship, starting a war with me? Haven't THEY read Machiavelli? "Do your enemy no small harm" I understand that the Egyptians haven't, I just can't see why they'd want a piece of me AND Byzantium AND Turkey, all at once

Do you really think those rebels Valencia know what's happening in the Russian Steppes? So, how's come I'm at war with them just because some peasants in Peroslavl hate my guts? Eh?

I like Crusades, except for the part where I CANNOT take the path through the provinces with 100% zealousness, even though it takes exactly the same amount of time as the rigorously AI-enforced path... bah I notice that the AI moves its armies the hell out of the way of my Crusades. Hey I thought only I did that

Has anyone else ever noticed that, once you've committed your general to the fighting, the rest of the troops morale seems to improve? Guess they prefer a guy who's puttin it on the line, just like the grunts do....

Ever see the enemy army marching towards you while their General unit, with a total of one guy, heads for the exit? Don't count on their morale breaking easily, fella. You'll now have to fight the entire army. Speaking of which, why the hell doesn't the AI give that guy some troops again? (so he'll advance and I can kill him and his army will rout and I'll have it easy again)

Why is is it that I can chase enemy horse archers til the cows come home and they won't rout, but MY horse archers get the willies and rout because they have retreated too much? I ask ya....

Didja ever notice that a catapult unit of ten men can kill ten men and then they sit around congratulating each other on their jump in valor, while my archer unit of 60 kills a hundred and they get sour beer and no valor? Just wonderin...

My highest leader morale, so far, is 31. Is that a record? One day I'll have to attack with them alone just to see if they'd ever break and run. (Go back It's a trap There's 20 of them&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

Sounds like someones got the Medieval blues... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[NewJeffCT]

Quote[/b] (ShaiHulud @ Sep. 24 2003,16:43)]My highest leader morale, so far, is 31. Is that a record? One day I'll have to attack with them alone just to see if they'd ever break and run. (Go back It's a trap There's 20 of them&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Geez, I'm lucky if I get anybody over valor 10 in a campaign...it's probably my obsession with having whole units, or retraining units to upgrade their equipment...

I think the highest valor I've seen has been 13 or 14 on a prince's unit of ghulam bodyguards. He was #1 in line for the Turkish throne, but had 0 or 1 acumen, while his younger brother was at least a 4 or 5. So, I sent his unit into that little province north of Khazar by himself to confront 4,000 horde members. They went from Valor 9 to 13 or 14 as they died... but, 20 ghulams took out more than twice their number in Mongol Heavy Cavalry & Mongol Warriors.

[LestaT]

The mistake regarding your war with Spain, well at first i was also afraid of excommunication. That makes me don't want to war with other catholic factions. That tactics costs me dearly. Now i don't care anymore. If you let the spanish attack you without retaliation. then they'll grow stronger, and you'll grow weaker.

In the end, all other neighbouring catholics will take turn to grab a piece of your provinces. War is war. Total war....

[TheSilverKnight]

The best guy I've ever had in Medieval: TW was a 29 Valour Prince who had seven acumen, and nine command stars, and full loyalty. He was only 19, and he ascended the throne the next year. He became Grand Prince Mikhail II of Novgorod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Vanya]

Quote[/b] (TheSilverKnight @ Sep. 25 2003,07:42)]The best guy I've ever had in Medieval: TW was a 29 Valour Prince who had seven acumen, and nine command stars, and full loyalty. He was only 19, and he ascended the throne the next year. He became Grand Prince Mikhail II of Novgorod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
GAH

What a bummer That means that in a couple of decades, your ubergeneral will be soaking in a dirt bath... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Vanya prefer that the good generals not be in line for the throne.

Vanya adds... remember in Olde Shoggy, when your daimyo died, you still could keep the rest of his heavy cav bodyguards to use as you please. But, in MTW, when the king dies, apparently his bodyguards are buried with him How Egyptian

Will it be the same in RTW?

Vanya sez... ever see the Pope re-emerge with a predominantly MUSLIM army? IE, saracens, ghulams, even camels? What a hoot

Vanya sez... why does Pope give some factions free dough, and not others? When Vanya play as Danes, or as Poles, Vanya never gets a single red cent from that stingy bastid in the pointy hat. But, when Vanya plays Spanish or German, Vanya gets the papal money... frequently

And why does that bastid in the pointy hat only hand out money in the beginning of the game? Why not when you are actually IN NEED of ze money? Like, when Vanya is feverishly defending Christendom against the encroachment of the infidels... why does the Pope not support Vanya's effort to maintain a theologically pure continent?

And then the pinnacle of duplicity is when the POPE chooses to renounce your ALLIANCE with his grace because you went to WAR with an INFIDEL ALLY of his http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif And then, a couple of turns later, because you get sandbagged by the wretched Murano Glass Makers Union, the Pope calls for a crusade against YOU, the defender of the faith

That is why Vanya tries to always keep open sea lanes that lead directly to the pointy hat realm. If the fit hits the shan, invade and slaughter and pull out. Put your inbred, 6-toed, chinless pervert slave under the pointy hat and move on.

Vanya sez... it would be nice if you could spawn your OWN rival Pope (ie, the Pope of Aquitaine?) Then you could have your POPE bitch-slap the cheese Pope Vanya would like front-row seats to that event Vanya would bring much popcorn and lots of sake Complete with scantily clad virgins carrying "round" cards, scores and pitchers of sake Sake + Colombian Supremo = Celestial pudding.

GAH

[The Storyteller]

Well, I can't shed light on the erratic behaviour of the Pope, but I can explain why the Pope doesn't give money after he start of the game.

Someone (I think it was eat cold steel) mentioned that the money the Pope gives comes out of the Papacy's coffers, rather than out of thin air. Since the Pope is not exactly the best fund manager in the world, and since most of us are fond of reducing him to living in a pathetic State with nothing but tumbleweeds for buildings, I doubt if he has money left to give after about 30 years.

[Vanya]

GAH

WHAT??

The Pope cannot summon the heavens and have God hand-deliver a pot o' gold by 2nd day air?

Heck, even Vanya managed to successfully train His wardogs to shit diamonds and pee gold on command

This is a clear indication that the man in the pointy hat is not really the celestial ambassador to the planet Vanya thinks the people of Earth have been bamboozeled. Vanya now off to Rome to cut off Pope's head.

GAH

[Mount Suribachi]

Quote[/b] (Vanya @ Sep. 26 2003,15:32)]This is a clear indication that the man in the pointy hat is not really the celestial ambassador to the planet
Well of course not We all know that the Emperor in Constantinople is Gods vice-regent on Earth

[MrWhipple]

Quote[/b] ]ShaiHulud Posted on Sep. 24 since I conquered Venice, my new monarchs now appear there when my old monarch dies?

I think that it has something to do with the province that has the highest florin value of the buildings is where your new King will show up.

[Cobra]

The king comes out of a prince, why doesn't it just stay where the prince was?

[BDC]

No, he appears in your most developed province I believe...

[tuopaolo]

Is there a way to upgrade the King's unit? Sometimes my King appears in a province which doesn't have the armor or weapon upgrades that another province has.

[ShaiHulud]

Re: Most developed province... I'll investigate that but it seems unlikely that my home province, Hungary, was inferior and certainly isn't now inferior(yet, I just had a new monarch appear in Venice last nite, again).

Tuapolo... Sorry, you can't upgrade the King. Worse, if he had the best armor and weapons as a Prince, it can be downgraded when he ascends to the Monarchy, and there's nothing to be done for it.

[Quokka]

The worst thing about the Pope is when he attacks you and then excommunicates you I was playing as the HRE and he attacked my troops in Venice with his stack of peasants. Hey presto ex-comm, shortly followed by crusades from France, Spain and England. That was the first time I lost a game because of peasants.

What about with ships when you are in an enforced peace period? If they attack you and lose then it counts as you attacking them and you get ex-commed.

[ShaiHulud]

Quokka...

"What about with ships when you are in an enforced peace period"

I didn't know that because it's been my good fortune to have lost every such battle..hehehe

[NewJeffCT]

Quote[/b] (ShaiHulud @ Sep. 26 2003,20:15)]Re: Most developed province... I'll investigate that but it seems unlikely that my home province, Hungary, was inferior and certainly isn't now inferior(yet, I just had a new monarch appear in Venice last nite, again).

Tuapolo... Sorry, you can't upgrade the King. Worse, if he had the best armor and weapons as a Prince, it can be downgraded when he ascends to the Monarchy, and there's nothing to be done for it.
The new king is certainly not placed in the most developed province... I am playing as the Turks now and I have fortresses from Rum, Trebizond and Georgia south through Palestine & Egypt. Rum has a military academy, master armourer, grand mosque, master spearmaker, master bowyer, master swordsmith. All my princes are in Rum.

However, my latest Sultan appeared in the recently conquered island of Sardinia (20 years at the most), which had just a castle and very little in the way of high level buildings.

[hellenes]

The number of buildings in a province determines the place that the new king will be crowned...

[ShaiHulud]

NewJeff...

"Geez, I'm lucky if I get anybody over valor 10 in a campaign...it's probably my obsession with having whole units, or retraining units to upgrade their equipment... "

I don't recall the last time I had a unit with 10 valor (if ever). I'm talking about 31 morale, which you see using 'F1', during battles.

[The Storyteller]

I'm just guessing here... Could it be that sometimes your King appears in the most recently conquered capital? My King always appeared in Wessex until I started warring with the Spanish. Once I took their lands my King started appearing in some Spanish province. After I killed the Italians he started appearing in Venice.

[squippy]

I'm playing the French at the mo, and had not gone to war with the English, so I had Toulouse as an isolated province. My king died and the heir - who was with the king in Ile de Fraqnce - mysteriously appeared in Toulouse as the new King. Now Toulouse was neither a conqored territory nor a well developed one, nothing near like Ile de France. So I have no idea whats going on. And also, my king was now isolated and I pretty much ahd to fight my way through the English just so he could link up with the rest of his territories, which was a problem I really did not need at the time.

[bighairyman]

the popes very fair in my enlgish game. i only got excommunicated once. mainly because i invaded spanish provinces, slaughter thousands of spanish soldiers, excuted the spanish king and one of his heir. deal with the almohads. destroyed the spainish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
the weird part is the scliians also join my allince against the spainish. we both got excummicted and the pope call a crusade on the sicclians. wellt eh pope was 53 and 3 years later he was dead, and the english became good cathiolcs again.

i think the ope has given me the grand total of more than 10,000 florins.a nd i'm only in the year 1200.

[Marshal Murat]

what you should do is launch many a Crusade to the enemy pagans and then launch a large attack against the Pope, after you launch all the Crusades you want and then launch a attack on the Spanish. Don't worry diddly about the Pope ex comms. Also try and use a pincer move though the Turkish and Egyptians and the Alhomads and insolate the Spanish along with attacking the Horde. You get good units from the Crusades and then conquer the rest of the map

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (ShaiHulud @ Sep. 24 2003,16:43)]On another subject, why is it that, since I conquered Venice, my new monarchs now appear there when my old monarch dies? Eh?

It seems that the comp really likes to place your king in a province with the royal palace line. But there's some other factor that I don't know of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif .


Citera[/b] ]Ever see the enemy army marching towards you while their General unit, with a total of one guy, heads for the exit? Don't count on their morale breaking easily, fella. You'll now have to fight the entire army. Speaking of which, why the hell doesn't the AI give that guy some troops again? (so he'll advance and I can kill him and his army will rout and I'll have it easy again)

Those battles with the withdrawing general is fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Not as easy as the other battles. It's seems that automerging troops sometimes makes the general a one man unit, meaning that it takes all the troops from the general unit and gives it to another unit.


Citera[/b] ] Why is is it that I can chase enemy horse archers til the cows come home and they won't rout, but MY horse archers get the willies and rout because they have retreated too much? I ask ya....

If you're playing on expert the comp is given a 4 morale bonus witch can explain it.


Citera[/b] ] Didja ever notice that a catapult unit of ten men can kill ten men and then they sit around congratulating each other on their jump in valor, while my archer unit of 60 kills a hundred and they get sour beer and no valor? Just wonderin...

Archers are given 1 valor for two kills each (for arrow kills not melee) I think, while the catapults are given 1 valor for 1 kill.


Citera[/b] ] My highest leader morale, so far, is 31. Is that a record? One day I'll have to attack with them alone just to see if they'd ever break and run. (Go back It's a trap There's 20 of them&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

He would probably rout http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif . But only if he's the only one left.
I belive that guy with a 29 valor (29v=58 morale) beats 31 in morale.
How do you get a unit with 29 valor? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Reminds me of fun story about uber units. I once had an exellent English royal line and four sons in late and after good breeding. The first two where (1)0 stars (stupid comp that can't handle 10 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif ) the tird was eight star but with bad other stats and the youngest son was the one that was good enough the be the king that united all of Europe under one country.
So the three oldest sons was sent to attacking the Byzantines on Rhodes. The only survivor was the now seven stared prince (coward http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif , only because the enmies had militia sergs with a attack bonus of 6 because of ap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif ). He was now sended to fight the Byzantines on Crete (were the royal line was). After almost destroying and entire unit of kataphracts he was withdrawed becaused he had showed himself worthy. After being retrained and gotten golden armour and weapons he was sended back. The Bysantines thought he was kidding and sended two units at a time and that where destroyed quickly. After doing this several times the king himself assulted and he was a 9 valor king. A sudden charge and few seconds later the king was dead among the rest of his bodyguards http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . After this and seeing that the rest of the remaining forces were chivic sergs and byzantine cavalry it was desided that it was a good days work and withdrew.
The losses: 5. The number of kills 242 (only kataphracts and a few byzantine cavalry). Soon afterwards our prince became the new king and united Europe. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif