Time what????

[MILITARYMAN]

Bah this new show time commanders sucks
Dont get me wrong guys it looks the bizz.But come on who wants to watch old nannys and divy birds get whacked eh.
I mean it could be a lot better with actual modern generals.All be it they are retired or whatever,but you just want to be up there dont you.Or at least watch someone who has a military mind and knows what to do.
Its guys like us who should be given a shot dont you agree?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Gregoshi]

Well, for us types that is true, but we are only gaming/computer/history/combat/war geeks. All these reality shows that have taken over TV (at least here in the US) are supposed to show normal people in extrodinary circumstances. The other drawback with our type is that there is a chance that we would know what happened in the actual battle and adjust our tactics to avoid the mistakes made. With Bonnie Businesswoman and Fred Farmer, it is an unknown they face.

Illustration: we play MTW the first time and get the shock of our life when the Golden Horde shows up the first time. Maybe we lose that campaign. This is the kind of unknown the contestant faces. Every MTW campaign you play after that first one, you sit there waiting for the GH to show up right on schedule - with everything but the kitchen sink for your royal palace. This would most like be analogous to what the Time Commander battles would be like with our types playing. We already know what happened.

Well, that's my take on it anyway.

[L`zard]

Actually, it's a pity the show isnt available (seemingly) in US markets, I'd like to see it.

Eventually (unless the producers screen them out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif ) they're going to pick a gamer, and then watch the fur fly

[squippy]

Grogoshis point is very valid and I do agree that this is almost certainly the intent ther programme producers had. But I also feel its a bit like taking someone who does not drive and sitting them doen in front of an F1 Grand Prix game. Is it could TV to watch someone repeatedly driving into the barriers and coming stone last?

In the most recent edition, the team did very well I thought. It was one of the most coherent performances to date, but: they were stuffed by their failure to understand how big the map was, and so they deployed too scattered.
This is the same problem that has plagued all the teams so far.

PS: I was awrong about them doing it back to back, Eddie Mair was in a different shirt.

[lanky316]

I really don't see the problem with the format too much. Getting miliatary people in is a waste of time as they'll just sit there saying drop a bomb on them all http://ewb3.ithium.net/ewbII/html/emoticons/shifty.gif. The way it is now it means anyone could be in it and as your not told what battle your fighting you're unlikely to know what to do and will be as knowledghable as they are. After all can anyone here say they no the exact tactics, deployment, etc that the Romans used at EVERY battle?

When they receive the applications they look through and see what sort of cohesion the team are likely to have and pick from those that are likely to create the most entertainment. The app form doesn't even mention history or TW it is pure luck, at the end of the day, last night you had a son who played tabletop wargames and a dad with an interest in anceint history. Not bad for the knowledgeable lot you seem to be after. After all the lot last night performed better then the real Caledonians so were they really that bad?

[MILITARYMAN]

Well all replys seem to favour the show as do i.
But it would be more entertaining for me personelly to witness a good contest.The game is all about the game we play really.That is why i would like to see players who know the game up there.
I mean i knew nothing of the historical battle myself.But i would have made a lot more use of that hill
And when they charged there infantry into the roman line.
Most of the celts troops were backed up doing nothing?
When they should of been out flanking the roman line.
And as for the cavalry and archers they were totally waisted.
There tactics were crap because they didnt know warfare.
But at least someone with basic knowledge of war and troop uses could of turned the battle.Or at least make for better viewing.
Whilst using people who arent interested in MTW or Wargaming might be interesting TV viewing for some.For me there will only be one winner.......... the Romans.
I would like to see ex officers etc in action without the aid of modern hi tech weapons.Or everyday builders like myself pitted against famous Commanders past and present.And it would be good to see two teams go head to head.
And as for anyone having an advantage because they new the outcome of the battle.Well yes they would but only slightly
because the AI of the game would counter there moves anyway
And if two teams face off say in a league of nations maybe
then nobody has an advantage.
I like the show and will continue to watch it next week.
But as for last nights team doing better than the celts did in history.I disagree..........both lost
And did anyone catch the deathtoll at the end of game?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif

[Devastatin Dave]

I still wish they's show it here in the States http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Michiel de Ruyter]

Well,

if played with real officers, things would be boring. Two out of four shown so far are almost standard textbook material in any military college (Watling Street and Trebia). To be found in most decent books about military history of the period.

The only one that could have been a challenge so far would have been Mons Graupius (unless the commanders consistently had to play the historically losing side in all four battles so far).
And it is questionable wether Mons Graupius is winnable at all as the Celts. Due to the massive advantage the Romans have in training, tactical ability, both in infantry as in cavalry.

Tonights foremost mistake was the fact that they did not use their archers. They tried the flanking attack (though failed to provide sufficient support).

Sending their infantry in a flanking attack would have ment a thin center, which would have been broken by the Romans, even without the use of their reserves. Remind you what forced the AI to use its reserves was the fact that the shear weight of numbers was on the verge, and at a few points actually broke through, the Roman line.

What was clear was that their cavalry was far inferior to what the Romans had... just as historically, if going by what the experts told.

Most interesting would indeed be two teams go head to head.

I do agree with the one who said that time for deployment is a bit too limited at times (though these teams got their deployment finished before the battle).

[BlackFireStorm]

Squippy,

They may well be filming them back-to-back. Mair's shirt changing proves nothing. There's a show in the UK called Countdown, shown daily, where they film an entire week's shows in one day. Each show, the host is dressed differently - he simply changes after each 'episode'. God I hate Richard Whitely http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MILITARYMAN]

hello http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Well i dont seem to be getting much support here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Look at it this way guysTo pit the tactics of a once great General against a house wife is a joke is it not?
Dont get me wrong theres nothing wrong with housewifes or women...........................i like em:)
But i mean if she knew how to use an army EG cav v archers
spear v cav etc.And all the rest of it,formations,battle tactics,terrian uses etc.Then she would have a chance at least.
But these guys have minimal idea of how to fight a battle.
I hope im not misunderstood i really like the show.I think it has great potential.But i think it would be better if contestants actually liked war games or had military knowledge.
If a team wins it will probably be a mad rush flukeYou wont sit and discuss there tactics or praise there moves afterwards.Unless you know they knew what they were doing?
Think about it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Gregoshi]

I don't know if it is lack of support for your view. The producers were obviously shooting for a certain kind of show - one that prohibits geeks like us from demonstrating that we are beneficial to society. With the geek factor you end up with a different show - one that in their mind is only entertaining to other geeks.


What we need to do is pool our money and invest in our own show: The Real Time Commanders, featuring us. It would, of course, rock We would sing high praises of it as we put on display the brilliant tactics of the finest military minds our community could muster. All 5,000 - 10,000 of us would watch it religiously as the ratings tanked week after week. Sure, we'd have done better if they hadn't put us up against Laura's Loom and Championship Tiddly Winks. And we'd all be out tens of thousands of invested dollars. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif


Sorry for the sarcasm. It is not directed at the idea (heck, I'd love to be able to see the current Time Commanders), but rather to today's television audience. I need only to look 95% of the programs that are popular to know the idea is doomed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Here ends my (sad) commentary.

[MILITARYMAN]

Hail Gregoshi and the Dragon clan http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Did you get my email concerning my first faulty map pack
Milis maps? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[barocca]

sadly Time Commanders is not shown here is Australia either,

isn't it based on the RTW engine?

personally i would love to see it, although i hate to see people losing time and again, some of the battles the Romans won with a bit of luck and bad judgements by the attackers, maybe they should feature some battles that could have gone either way...

[Gregoshi]

I don't believe I got your message MILITARYMAN, but I have seen your posts about it.

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Sep. 28 2003,22:43)]

Quote[/b] ] Sorry for the sarcasm. It is not directed at the idea (heck, I'd love to be able to see the current Time Commanders), but rather to today's television audience. I need only to look 95% of the programs that are popular to know the idea is doomed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Actually, I think you are wrong. Youtr position presupposes that programme commisioners are making intelligent, rather thatn stupid, decisions. It seesm to me that while the initial reality TV shows had some conceptual merit, it is the unthinking repetition of whatever is popular that got 'em into this mess. Its the rush for the lowest common denominator, yet again, and IMO exhibits quite profound contempt for the audience. And my undrestanding os that the reality shows are starting to lose popularity as they consistently fail to produce anything interesting or innovative. I thin this format is doomed, and its doomed becuase the competitors are not given a genuine opportunity to make intelligent decisions. that is NOT good TV IMO.

[Gregoshi]

I hope you are right squippy.

[Spino]

Quote[/b] ]...I'd love to be able to see the current Time Commanders), but rather to today's television audience. I need only to look 95% of the programs that are popular to know the idea is doomed.

What he said... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Mount Suribachi]

The thing is, when TV companies are prepared to stick their neck out and do quality, intelligent TV, they always seem to be surprised when they are successful. Recent examples being Great Britons, Richard Starkeys Henry VII and perhaps most of all, Simon Schamas A history of Britain. These were all great successes and crossed Gregoshis geek divide. There are large numbers of people in Britain, beyond us history geeks who want to watch high quality TV rather than the endless diet of soaps and reality TV... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Marshal Murat]

Hey you know what, why don't they bring in cadets from a military school, they would do better. It would be alot better if this was just a battle simulator, if you know what I mean.

[Captain Fishpants]

Quote[/b] (BlackFireStorm @ Sep. 26 2003,19:02)]Squippy,

They may well be filming them back-to-back. Mair's shirt changing proves nothing. There's a show in the UK called Countdown, shown daily, where they film an entire week's shows in one day. Each show, the host is dressed differently - he simply changes after each 'episode'. God I hate Richard Whitely http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The second TC batch have just finished filming, and we think that people will be suitably impressed with what you'll see in a few weeks... Phalanxes look waaaaaaay cool. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'm not giving much away by revealing that getting Time Commanders on tape takes longer than C4's Countdown - they seem to be managing about 2 episodes per day of filming, give or take.

Then again, with Countdown all they have to do is shuffle the letters to start a new game. And adjust Carol Vorderman's hair. And recharge Richard Whiteley's granny-appeal. And give Gyles Brandreth another gallon of Red Bull (or whatever they use on him).

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Good man CF( If i don't get a good batch of red bull in me i can hardly stand&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif:D

Any hints on any Armenian units in this weeks Time commanders? Please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Jeebus_Frist]

Didn't I see posted somewhere that there is some potential that a new TC related series might be under development in the US? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Gregoshi]

There was comment that there were two shows utilizing the RTW game engine as I recall.

[BlackFireStorm]

On the .com site it says there is a second show utilising the engine which is currently 'top secret'. I'm assuming this is not the second series of Time Commanders but something new. Creative Assembly seem to have really hit it off with the TV bods - well done people. Need a project manager http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MILITARYMAN]

I aint watched the last two or three
any teams won yet or are they still getting slaughterd?
Bye http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif