bah... humbug

[Shimazu2]

well poo... can't talk on my old thread now... oh well... anyhow um... this conserns the Yari Ashigaru... I am just about sick and tired of fighting against hordes of these yari ashigaru... me and Tosa have talked about it (how it was unfair) like how you can get a upgrade for a yari ash for little koku yet the same one for a monk would be 300 koku... this is very unfair and i think that if the only way you can win is with a horde of ashigaru then you don't deserve the title of shogun.....

(i had to come up with something so they wouldn't call this OT http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif)

[LordTed]

Yes but a weapon upgrade on a monk has a bit more combat value on an ashigaru. My tactic for them is break one flank, as their killing power is so low so you can afford to get out flanked while breaking theirs.

[evilc]

if the enemy has large numbers of ashi units, break 1 and the rest in the area will peg it. fire all guns at 1 unit, put your best 2-3 h2h units on that unit and play time waster with all the rest. this enemy unit runs, rest get very scared if not run away themselves.

If the enemy has only a fre suped up YA then it all dpends on koku deployment etc.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

The V1.02 patch has helped alot in getting rid of the ashi/gun combo. While ashi still are cheap and usable, reliance on them against a skilled opponent is suicide. Tell u what - U take ashi for your core units, I will take Naginata. Add a few flankers on each side, with some support and we will see who comes out ahead. Yes - head to head for the same cost you will stand, but the ability of other units (non-peasant units to be exact) to withstand losses and resist routing as compared to ashi - that will allow me to break your line well before you can do the same to me. Face it, if I make only one unit of Ashi break, even if I lose most of a cav unit to do it in a flanking move, half your line will run, while I only will lose the flanker and maybe a nearby unit. Once your line crumbles, I can commit the rest of my cav to ensure your runners keep running, and use my intact but now unengaged troops to flank those of yours that did not flee.

Are ashi useful - u betcha. Especially when you know your opponents style. If they like lots of cav and will attack, park in the woods with ashi and lure them in with a couple of high powered units that run well. Yes - this is camping. But - if your opponent will fall for it - use terrain to your advantage. But if your gonna rely primarily on ashi due to the the fact they are cheap and upgradeable, your going to learn a simple fact - in the end - you get what you pay for....

Qapla!



------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Shimazu2]

thx guys youve all been a big help http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif but one thing... i almost NEVER take in Naginata... are they good vs the high honour ashigaru or is it they just hang on longer? i will try all of your tecniques for they sound very good... once again thank you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/cool.gif

------------------
Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

Most peeps stay clear of Nagi's - I reckon it's 'cos they seem to be stalwart defenders 'cept they tend to run much the same as Ashi's - if odd's get too high you have a full scale rout on your hands - that's what I've had happen many times before anyhow.

[edit] My god I just posted in GD I think that's nearly a first - then again it's my first post here in what - 2/3 months? I blame my aging!
------------------
TigerSoul So

Set your soul in the arms of Buddha. May you rest in the heart of Havanna.

[This message has been edited by The Soul (edited 01-01-2002).]

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Naginata are fairly stalwart - they are HEAVY defensively, decent killers, and are the least vulnerable of all the units vs missile fire (not counting ninja and kensai). They will last alot longer in combat than any other unit head to head, and will often win due to their high defensive nature. After all, they are there to withstand charges by WM's and ND's after all. They also are solid against cav, although u are better off with a spear for that. While they might now win against maxed ashi - they WILL hold long enough for you to use your other units (U did bring other units - didnt you?) to tear the heart out of a few peasant units to send them fleeing. That in turn will cause the mass rout - and the field is yours.

I have to say - I have never seen the "mass Nagi" rout described - but then again, I don't expect them to win head to head without help. In a straight up fight, IF they dont win - they WILL last the longest of the infantry - giving you the commander the best chance to keep them from running.

I personally like giving them upgrades if feasible - defensive ones make them even harder to kill - making them true tanks, while offensive ones are not as useful for my style of play.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[tootee]

Quote Originally posted by evilc:
if the enemy has large numbers of ashi units, break 1 and the rest in the area will peg it. fire all guns at 1 unit, put your best 2-3 h2h units on that unit and play time waster with all the rest. this enemy unit runs, rest get very scared if not run away themselves.

If the enemy has only a fre suped up YA then it all dpends on koku deployment etc.[/QUOTE]

Personally this is also my preferred method. Thats the weakness when enemy is YA heavy. But gotta be careful on the flanks when enemy is spears+cav heavy.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Good Point. But - then again, if they are YS and Cav, then the single point attack to break won't work. Thats why most skilled players either find a specific army set they work best with, or get a balanced army that is flexible enough to pull victory out against almost any foe with superior tactics.

An opponent who goes with YS and cav is best met with shock troops, a few spears and some guns. The spears to guard the guns, and spike horses if needed, while the guns tear the cav and ys apart. Should the spears get too close to the guns, a charge by ND or WM's will quickly ensure that they never reach those valuable gunmen.

Remember - every army has a weak spot - its a matter of seeing what it is, then finding a way to exploit it. This is why "campers" are reviled, for they make it all the more difficult to find that weakness and exploit it.

One key is being able to see your opponents army being formed as you build your army in MP. Hopefully, this will be available in MTW, along with the ability to give different funding levels to the attacker and defender.

Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

Hehehe BSM yes other units of course. But I used those to flank ie I used 4/5 Nagi's to hold against 5/6 enemy units leaving me with a couple left for flanking.....which I thought nagi's would be good at doing..... otherwise there's no point in bringing them. Might as well bring 6 monks which hold better and have better attack bonus if you charge as you get hit...with 2 still free for flanking.
By the way the stats say monks have twice the morale as nagi's(8/4.)

Plus one thing I forgot to mention. The better players can combat nagi's by out pacing them. Too many nag's and your army becomes immobile and very susceptible to tiredness, and quick flanking manoeuvres - critical against mongols especially.

------------------
TigerSoul So

Set your soul in the arms of Buddha. May you rest in the heart of Havanna.

[Shimazu2]

Well guys this has really been hammering on me for some time.. just today i fought Nama in a high koku 3v3... we were attacking and yet again i had a enemy with about 3 units of HIGH honour ashigaru... well of course i was beaten... but afterwards i kind of run some tests... i tested the naginata against the other units... A h5 nag will demolish a h9 yari ashigaru (this has been proven if you don't believe me look me up and i can show you) also.. i found that the only unit that can beat them while having equal honour is a monk... the yari units were ripped to peices... the nodachi and cav were torn apart... but the monks have yet again come on top... i'd say that from now on ill have me a few naginata in my army when im defending http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/cool.gif

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Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Yep - Nagi are alot better than most ppl give em credit for. Now - at honor 5 - were they more expensive than honor 9 ashi? As for monks - whats the difference in cost of monks vs nagi at honor 5? And the reason monks win - as noted - they have 2x the morale of nagi. If Nagi had the same morale (edit it and try) they would be the uber-unit. BTW - try ashi at honor 9 and Monks at honor 5 - who wins? Now one sees the rock/paper/scissors nature of the game.

Kudo's for running the tests - many ppl dont have the patience to do it. And then they underestimate the abilities of a unit.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Shimazu2]

well i just tested them out on my first game... they did very good... i had 4 units with 5 hon (koku was 12000) and they held out for quite some time... actually long enough for my ally to route.. then to route one of my enemies... then to route the other enemy.. but they rallied and killed off all my men... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif BUT WHAT FUN! i enjoyed it very much.. also one of my enemies had about 2 or 3 units of VERY high honour ash... they were the first ones to go http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif GAH i feel like a million dollars http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[Gothmog]

Well, people used to not like Nags, for a good reason:

Their painfully slow speed. Nothing more frustrating than having to have the entire army waiting for one unit of tin-can men.

But that was then, this is now.

Patch 1.0.2 totally changed the walking speed of infantry units, thus basically eliminated the most fatal disadvantage of Naginata.

That and heavy cavalry, 1.0.2 has successfully revived two most under used unit types back from grave.

---------------------
However, one must say that Naginata will remain one of those unglorified units, because their strength lies in the commander's willingness to sacrifice them whenever necessary.

Kensai, HC, on the other hand, can attract more emotional attachment. Because they are both killing machines and human tanks.

----------
Here is a maybe irrelavant list of the highest possible honor for the freshly recruited troops in single player:

*foot soldiers*
YS -- 3
YA -- 3
WM -- 3
ND -- 3
Nag -- 1

*missile troops*
SA -- 3
Muskets -- 1
Arqs -- 1

*Cavalry*
HC -- 2
YC -- 3
CA -- 3
NC -- 3

*Special*
KS -- 1
BN -- 1




[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 01-02-2002).]

[Shimazu2]

im going to run some tests now.. ill report back in a sec... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Qapla! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[Shimazu2]

Ok im done with the tests.. here is what i found....

Naginata with 5 honour cost 1166 koku

Monk with 5 honour cost 1509 koku

Yari Ashigaru with 9 honour cost 1054 koku

Monks 5h vs Yari Ash 9h
Monks win against the YA but the naginata took less casualties then the monks did.

These tests were taken with the h2h units in 4 rows deep close formation.

Once again the ways of Paper/Rock/Scissors is shown in this game.. any other tests you want me to run?

------------------
Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[Shimazu2]

I just run yet another test... this time i tested h5 nag with 1 ARMOR upgrade vs h5 monk with no upgrades...

The test shows that the cost of the naginata unit was still less then that of the monk unit... the naginata won the battle with 24 men left on their feet.

------------------
Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[Shimazu2]

btw... what does the fire on the file thing mean when you first click on this thread?

------------------
Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Shim2,

It means this topic is "hot", and has had lots of posts within a certain amount of time.

Thanks for giving me the info on those tests - saves me from having to do them LOL.
Seriously, this data will help alot of players if they pay attention - knowing what to "buy" is half the contest! The last test you ran shows why I like adding the armor upgrades to Nagi - in theory the bonus is greater on another unit - but its like chobham armor on a M1 tank - danged near impervious. (I say nearly because my beloved AH-64 with hellfires has proven - repeatedly - that chobham cannot take a hellfire hit.) It adds alot more to the life expectancy of nagi than one would think.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[evilc]

i take a nagi as my gen,as a recent experiment. he's quite ahrd to kill, and usually never gets round to fighting but oh well.

[Shimazu2]

well glad to help... lol evil... well anymore tests you want me to run? i ain't got nothing to do since school is out for Christmas break... or until the rest of this week anyhow

[Kraellin]

:)

glad you like the nags. we spent a LOT of time on trying to get things to work so that every unit had a purpose and so that no one unit would dominate the game. yuuki, tosa, and doc, in particular spent, a great deal of time in testing individual units against other units. we more or less standardized even the testing procedures to eliminate guesswork and errors from things. and some of our discussions in our own forum would go on for days about this unit vs that unit and how to tweak this or that. it shld also be noted that CA did one hell of a job in designing and coding this game.

i still run tests from time to time just to see how this unit or that would work if tweaked this way or that. it's an interesting process to try and balance 21 different units against each other and not have any single one come up as too strong or too weak and also keep within the rock, paper, scissors nature of things and do it so that multiplayer and single player still function, given their inherent differences.

one of the nice things that also happened with 1.02 is that if you dont agree with our results you can go change things how you think they shld be, or even if you just want to try things out you can. there are also stats that can be changed that we didnt really have time to look into and tweak. so there's still plenty of room for improvement in things.

i've had mixed results in using the nags. sometimes they seem like rock walls that nothing can defeat and other times i wish i'd brought some actual rocks ;) a lot depends on what you're facing with what you've got and using the right units against the right enemy units.

i'm also very glad to see that folks are now compensating against cav rushes by bringing more spear units, ya or ys. i ran a mostly cav army in one game last night and got pretty badly chewed up.

guns may still be a bit too strong. i'm almost beginning to think that muskets shldnt have even been included in the game and that arq's shld have been the only gun unit. an arq would have been very slow to reload but have a very high kill ratio when it did fire. this would have made it a high shock unit but limited in scope due to the long reload. one would have then had to pick one's time to actually shoot for the greatest effect, but it wouldnt be an all powerful repeating type weapon. as i've stated elsewhere, the current muskets wouldnt really have existed in sengoku japan, at least not the way they are currently modeled...those wouldnt have existed for about another 100 years, according to my research.

still and all, the game works. it's fun. and that, after all, is the true test :)

K.




------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Shimazu2]

thanks for your opinion on the matter kraelin... i also agree with you on the matter with the muskets.. if i didn't HAVE to take them then i wouldn't... they are ashigaru for one thing (grr) and are AWEFUL at hand to hand combat... usually when i am in a very akward jam in a battle i can send in archers in melee and alot of times whoop up on someone... (if you flank a enemy unit most of the times that unit will route with a bunch of archers at their back) also i have been practicing a little on the arquebusiers except the problem is that they can't fire in the rain and so most of the time my h4 arquebuisiers are just human sheilds for my archers... (i don't much like having to use them that way) and so then again i must fall back on my muskets for help... ah well... i was talking to one of my friends last night about the nags vs ashigaru thing and i told him that i wouldn't mind requesting that maybe in a future patch we will be able to lower the price of the naginata which would further reduce the likely hood of a ashigaru horde... but what do i know... im just a kid http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[Sjakihata]

Shimazu2 what is "humbug" ?

------------------
"-Know your self, know your enemy and your victory will be painless.
-Know the weather, know the terrain and your victory will be complete."
-Sun Tzu(Wu), The Art of War.

[evilc]

a sweet http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Shimazu2]

YOUVE NEVER SEEN THE CHRISTMAS CAROL??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! GAH YOU HAVEN'T LIVED!

------------------
Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[Shimazu2]

Once again... the naginata have proven themselves! i was defending with VMO and we were against TakedaShingen (masamune) and HeartOfSword... i had 3 nags with h4 in a 10000 koku each battle... my nags held down 6 units of monks and nodachi just long enough for my monks to get to them and me to route both of the enemies generals... (they both went for me) my ally during this time was flanking the crap out of them (don't double team me when i got nag http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif youll pay) and my nags held them down while my ally flanked... i had over 800 kills and it was FUN!!!!!!

Qapla!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Shimazu2, The silent ninja in green... Just because you can't see me doesn't mean i ain't there :)

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Seems I may have a convert to nagi heaven in Shim2 - and it looks like he has a bit of klingon blood as well! ROFL.

Seriously, glad some folks are learning to use this unit to its potential, as I have always thought it was under-rated. Especially glad to see that they are making the game continue to be fun. Their current state is due to the testing and hard work of both the community patch team and CA.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Shimazu2]

man... how many posts do i have to make before i can not be a ashigaru! (i hate them something feirce http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif) ah well... the next time you are in the game look me up... we can defend some and play with the naginata!!!!!!!!!

------------------
Quote Shimazu2, furthermore

[BakaGaijin]

So Nagi really are effective now, eh? Wicked. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif I generally prefer a fast-moving flanking game, but I still appreciate the power of a defensive tank like the Nagi. And I also share the utter contempt of those worthless peasants displayed in this thread. When my suitemates in Boston watch, they often panic when I send my Ashi off to die, but my response is always "They're only peasants." http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Samurai forever, baby. Long live the Naginata!

------------------
"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Shim2,

That info is posted in an old thread somewhere - but I think its 50.
Qapla!
Skkz

[Shimazu2]

What info? im very glad that someone also shares my hatred to the peasant hordes! OFF TO BATTLE

HONOUR TO THE NAGINATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
Quote Shimazu2, furthermore

Hehehe ok so it HAS been a bit since I actually played and my tactics maybe a tad ermm out of date. But still it shows how big a change the new patch has had.

I remember I used to have my own naginata gen which, just like EvilC, rarely saw battle. The good thing about it is that your gen can just act as a last resort, and you know pretty well that he won't get shot up. But using your gen as naginata makes little difference if you charge him into the enemy 'cos of his pathetic attack stats. I find YS are pretty good, 'cos of their balance between attack/armour/defence.

------------------
TigerSoul So

Set your soul in the arms of Buddha. May you rest in the heart of Havanna.

[Shimazu2]

i must try this!!!

------------------
Quote Shimazu2, furthermore

[Shimazu2]

MUHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!! I tried my gen as a nag... well me and majordump were fighting on a huge map and he had cav all around me... but his main force was in the front.. well he snuck some cav in behind me and i hit some with my yari sams... but one unit got away from my sams... HEADING STRAIGHT FOR MY NAG GEN!!! well my gen turned right around... all simple like... WHAM!!!! cav are gone... gen turns around... has a fresh unit of yari ashigaru at near him... WHAM!!!! yari ash are gone.. the rest route and my gen wins it for the day.... oh btw.. picketts charge is a nice map http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Quote Shimazu2, furthermore

[Major Robert Dump]

LOL Shimazu
You kept telling me to check the threads on this subject and now I now why lol....

I only use High hon ashi on High koku games, never on 8000 or below. On 8000 or below I may use one, but any more than that is suicide because if one ashi or your gen routs the whole army goes home for dinner....

Sorry if i made u mad with my "rivalry" comment, i was only kidding. But Dude, we've played like 15 games against each other in the last 4 days and I've started to think of u as a deadly opponenent. When I say rivalry, I mean "friendly rivalry."

As far as my Ashi armies on high koku games...yes i will take 4 or 5 ashi becuase against just you I was learning your moves, but then u start using those damn naginatas lol and it changes it all. As far as high koku games with multiple players goes, well, sometimes i go heavy ashi-yari spears and sometimes I don't, it just depends my mood.

I'm glad you've found redemption in your stinking nags http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I'll just remember to run around them with my dachi and cav! :O

Anyone who plays me online knows I use a different army almost everytime (but maybe not different actics lol) because predictability is a HUGE weakness, so now I must count you as one of those people who know me GRRRRRRRRR

But back to the subject....Yes, I love Nags they just tire so damn easy. But I do like to make my gen a nag with upgraded armor because no one will try to attack him with some crazy flank (except ninjas maybe)..But then again I'm always a fan of using my Gen offensively so I only make Nag Gen when a little birdie says to me "you're toast and u will be attacked to death." Ok, I'm done rambling, back to the games! I'm coming for you SHIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shimazu2]

MUHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!! well i have yet another person who hates me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif me and nama were on teams vs casino and eagle4gold... eagle dropped and cas didn't stand a chance... (nama's ashigaru horde and my naginata told him he didn't stand a bit of a chance) so once again i let the evil inside me come out http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif WAR NAMA!!! his horde routed before he knew what was happening!!! HONOUR TO THE NAGINATA! DEATH TO THE PEASANTS!!!... phew this naginata thing is getting to me... oh yeah.. Happy birthday nama http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Quote Shimazu2, furthermore

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Gee - this thread needs to be renamed to:

"The wonderful world of Naginata!"

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
after a LONG time its good to have my love of these turtlemen (No Gay reference here thank you!) is fully vindicated.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Shimazu2]

My next thread will be on The Wonderful World Of Naginata!

------------------
Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

"Wonderful DreamWorld Of The Naginata" you mean? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Nag are good to hold the dang uberashi, but try them against my cavs charging at full speed at their rear! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Hehe...Haha...Hoho...MWUAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

------------------
Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Ahhh my dear Tera - thats the whole point. Charge your cav - for while I use 4 nag's to hold your 6 cav's in the front, the rest will rotate and protect the flanks. If you go cav heavy, I will end up with the free unit or 2, not the other way around.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

Bah lol
Cavs r not used that way
You flank/rear with them when the enemy is engaged with another unit!



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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Shoko]

Ur Student is here,tell me more http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
Tera u hear me.........?

------------------

Clan Kenchikuka (http://pub14.ezboard.com/fclankenchikukakenchikukacouncilchamber)

[Shimazu2]

my nag GENERAL won't allow that to happen http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif BRING IT ON TERAZAWA!!!!!!

------------------
Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

Omg :S
You're all crazy GO AWAY!!!!!!!

------------------
Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Shimazu2]

oh btw... how do you like my location http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Shimazu2]

gah... gettig quiet in here.. this not good!

------------------
Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

[Shimazu2]

i have convined another person that Naginata are far more powerful then what people give them... HattoriGrudge has been converted to the Naginata!!! WTG GRUDGE!!!

------------------
Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

[Shimazu2]

WOO HOOO IM A SAMURAI NOW!!!! (i hope that by now you know that i hate the ashigaru http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif)

------------------
Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Congrats Shim2


------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Shimazu2]

BSM what is your name on shogun?

------------------
Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

[BSM_Skkzarg]

I am BSM_Skkzarg - but I don't hardly ever play MP. In fact, I haven't played in ages. I will pop on as soon as I have a chance to spend a few hours for games.
Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

I got the feelin' Magy's cav hordes would whup nag's anyday m8. A good cav gen (not me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif) will beat ya - Tera's got it all right there!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
TigerSoul So

Set your soul in the arms of Buddha. May you rest in the heart of Havanna.

Right Soul! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Now I know why Shim never accepts my challenges! GAH! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Shimazu2]

lol you guys are hilarious... run a test on a nag vs a cav http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif come back and tell us the outcomes http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif oh and btw.. you guys ever attacked with nags? very fun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

LOL shim...we'll do a HC vs Naginata 1v1 comp LOL

OK? accept that?

------------------
Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Shoko]

We still on this m8......
LOL looks like NG war, watch those HC rock and roll........heheheehe

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://pub14.ezboard.com/fclankenchikukakenchikukacouncilchamber)

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Sorry mate - for the cost of HC, I can get a nagi to hold you and a ashi to flank you.
Or, I can just add a bit of upgrade to me nagi and have him beat your HC to a bloody pulp 1v1.
Take your pick.
For the money, nagi is often (BUT NOT ALWAYS) the better pick.
Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

Lol youre joking? The YA can give a match to the HC anyway.

And Nagis r slow, and believe me, with their melee -2 they r normally used arse.
They can hold well, but they can't beat the HC. And if you pump any unit, it will win anyway, so don't pump it!

Tera.

------------------
Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Zone]

Kensi!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

I don't play to win... I play not to lose ;)

Get some HC and 1 ninja group, hide with your ninja lure the nags with HC and then stick em up the rear! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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TigerSoul So

Set your soul in the arms of Buddha. May you rest in the heart of Havanna.

[Shimazu2]

bahahahha! the naginata are wonderful!!! ok here is the new deal... i was attacking in a 3v3 30000 koku game... i was at first contraversal on what my gen would be... we were playing in a map with lots of trees... and i took a few archers but my main units were nodachi... with 6 honour btw http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif well on toward the end of the game my main force still hadn't been in battle... fucyuman (my enemy) suddenly rushed with alot of yari ashigaru and samurai (the ashigaru had up near 9 honour in 3 units.... and me with only one nag unit... grr) well i send 3 units of 6h nodachis against his yari ashigaru.. my nods got shredded... grr.. well my armies were begining to route... but my allies had already defeated their enemies and were running as hard as they could to get to me... well all i had was one unit of nods that was flanked from the back.. and my nag gen and a musket unit... well i got the muskets close enough to fire and send in my gen.. against 3 almost whole units of high honour yari ashigaru... my gen held out against the 3 long enough for my allies to run from one side of the map to the other side!!! but all my allies did was to hit some muskets and a few nods... my gen routed all of the yari ashigaru!!! WOOO HOOO! oh yeah... bring it on tera http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

[Shoko]

LMAO..... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Shim sounds like alot of fun.But i got no comment on ur NG.....
Tera nope i aint gunna tell him the secret about YA http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://pub14.ezboard.com/fclankenchikukakenchikukacouncilchamber)

[Zone]

Quote Originally posted by Shimazu2:
btw... what does the fire on the file thing mean when you first click on this thread?

[/QUOTE]

Means it's had more than 15 replies, it says so at the bottom of the page http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

I don't play to win... I play not to lose ;)

[Zone]

I like Nags too. I used to use HC alot until I joined this forum thing and heard about the merits of Nags. Until the patch of course http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

I don't play to win... I play not to lose ;)

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Zone - with the 1.02 patch - Heavy Cavalry have again taken on a dangerous edge. They are again a force to be reckoned with. While you still would be foolish to charge them up a hill into spears, or run them into woods, they have retaken their rightful place as the heavy hitter in the cavalry lineup. While not as quick killing as naginata cav - they are more useful due to their survivability. Like naginata infantry - if your defence is strong - your offense does not need to be as great - because u will survive long enough to send your enemy to Buddha, or Christ, or whoever the foul heathen worships.....

Some will say that the best defense is a good offense - well I say that is balanced by the fact that the best offense is a good defense.

Thus my love for the slow, heavy, hard hitters.

Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Zone]

Quote Originally posted by BSM_Skkzarg:
Thus my love for the slow, heavy, hard hitters.
[/QUOTE]

That depends on SP or MP I suppose. For SP and army of Kensi and ninjas is great fun to use (and usually successful) but this would be slaughtered by any reasonable player in MP so yes, I would agree. I always like to build up my defense before I attack, this goes for any game/situation etc., it's the way I am. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

I don't play to win... I play not to lose ;)

Same for me Zone, I prefer to consolidate my position/resources or whatever, then make one massive attack. Was always the same on C&C Red Alert, my bro called it "The Impenetrable Defence" A base half the map's size guarded by 100 or so Tesla/Flamer/SAMs + Mammoths and Rocket Men..... then build my attack and crush him http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Hmmm. But yeah didn't work too well when the resources were limited. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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TigerSoul So

When The Soul you see,
It's time for tea,
Supper's served.
All you deserve.

Be careful - the Pain!
You wish never came.
Only you it ensnares,
No nightmare compares.

Kill me or thwart me
My Soul carries on
Never distinguished
Replenished and unfinished.

[Shimazu2]

Well the perfect defencive army for me combines strength and speed... with a combination of high honour nags and nods with a few yari samurai to back them up you can almost always garentee a hand to hand fighter upgrade...

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Honour to the Naginata!
Death to the Peasant Horde!
So shall be peace...

-Shimazu2

[Zone]

and a low honour NC to mop up the routers http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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ROFL..Zone does not rest [MIZILUS]

I don't play to win... I play not to lose ;)