The 4th crusade....

[hellenes]

Ive searched quite a lot of the part in the internet and i havent found any reference to knight order (templar,st john,teuton) taking part in the 4th crusade maybe someone could help me... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

To my knowledge no knightly orders took part. It was mostly Venetians, French and Flemish who took part. Leaders such as Simon De Montfort saw how wrong the faisco was and sailed on to the Holy land

Get stephen Runcimans trilogy of the Crusades. A most excellent read. That will tell you everything you need to know.

[spmetla]

Are you sure. I'm pretty sure that the Knights Templar were there. Unfortuanly I can't check because I'm in college and my collection of books are at home.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I'll have to check myself. I've got the books so i'll know for sure later

[Mega Dux Bob]

I've read in books about the Templars that asserted they were involved directly in the 4th Crusade but never any account of what they accutally did. Maybe the Templars were to embarrassed to leave a record?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I had a look in the crusade book and there was nothing about the Templars being there. You might have point there MDB. I'll keep looking but Runciman is usually the best source for anything Crusading related.

[kataphraktoi]

If the sources don;t mention the military orders in the 4th Crusade, its not likely they were.

No military order set up base in the following years after the sack of COnstantinople and ever did. The only orders that were there were the religious ones.

The Hospitallers of Rhodes did take Rhodes from the Byzantines but that was not related to the sack.

Even if the orders did take part, they would not have been stupid like the Latins to destroy priceless works of art and religious relics, of which, so few exists today.

Its funny, Constantinople had to be sacked only once to lose most of its fine treasues....then again, they were sacked by Western Europeans http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

At least the Mongolians still left enough of Baghdad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Stratagos Desaix]

"Maybe the Templars were to embarrassed to leave a record?" The Templar archives were kept in Cyprus when the island was sacked (by the Turks I think) most of the order's records were destroyed so there may well of been an account of the sacking of Constantinople,alot of the information we have on the Templars comes from contempory sources rather than the order its self.Alot of what we do have is from european priories so to my knowledge the only accounts of the orders crusading activities that are directly from Templar source's are found in the Templar rule.I could be wrong I'll have to check.

[Hurin_Rules]

The Templars and Hospitallers did participate on a logistical level. They were often on the commissions Innocent III set up to distribute crusading taxes to actual crusaders. I am not aware of any of them actually taking ship with the Venetian fleet, but this is not unexpected; the Hospitallers and Templars were probably waiting in the East for the main body of the Crusaders to arrive, and then would have linked with them there. Why bother going back to Europe when you can just wait for the others to arrive? Especially when the actual destination was supposed to be kept secret (and been Egypt rather than Constantinople).

In short: there is evidence the Military Orders supported the expedition but were waiting for it to arrive before they linked up with it. The fact that it never did arrive accounts for their ultimate lack of direct participation.

[Mega Dux Bob]

Maybe the referances to Templars in the 4th Crusade maybe the secular knights who took up with them temporarly ?(Conferie? If that is word)